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  • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    The 1.5 trillion we just passed would have paid for it all. And, it would've been a better stimulus. Dream big.
    I dont disagree. Bu unless you have a way to get that back your whole argument is moot. We COULD HAVE done it, we SHOULD HAVE done it. We didnt and now we need to get our finances back in order or we will be lucky if it doesnt destroy us free college or not.

    So again, if you were running tomorrow how would you pay for this? What plan can you devise that wouldnt get you laughed out at the primaries to pay for all of this? If you cant answer that then you arent really adding anything to the conversation. We can all dream big but the President actually has to do something about it and make it work.
    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
    -aparch

    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
    -INCH

    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

    Comment


    • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

      Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
      Well unless we have a better way to deal with the demand by employers who pay livable wages for applicants to have a bachelors degree (or more) and the matching demand by students to get a degree so they can have a livable wage, there needs to be some type of real policy proposal that deals with it. Saying that you can save 3K on your 50K student loans probably isn't going to get young people all that inspired though.

      Also Denmark, Norway, and Sweden have similar percentages of the population with the equivalent of a 4 year degree as we do (or higher)
      high school needs a revamp so that skill needed for jobs today are taught there. using an old model is a waste of time and resources for changing norms.
      a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

      Comment


      • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

        Originally posted by Handyman View Post
        I dont disagree. Bu unless you have a way to get that back your whole argument is moot. We COULD HAVE done it, we SHOULD HAVE done it. We didnt and now we need to get our finances back in order or we will be lucky if it doesnt destroy us free college or not.

        So again, if you were running tomorrow how would you pay for this? What plan can you devise that wouldnt get you laughed out at the primaries to pay for all of this? If you cant answer that then you arent really adding anything to the conversation. We can all dream big but the President actually has to do something about it and make it work.
        This is what always happens. The GOP blows the bank (Reagan, W, his dad until he passed the tax increase and then it lost him the election) and now Trump. And the Democrat (Clinton, Obama) has to get everything back in line.

        And it's happening again. And you're probably right as to what will happen. And we'll never ever get that 23 trillion back. And this country will die, just like Rome.
        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

        Comment


        • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

          Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
          high school needs a revamp so that skill needed for jobs today are taught there. using an old model is a waste of time and resources for changing norms.
          I don't hate this idea. I also don't have the idea of 13th and 14th grade so that they're really ready for the work force.
          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

          Comment


          • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

            Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
            high school needs a revamp so that skill needed for jobs today are taught there. using an old model is a waste of time and resources for changing norms.
            I kinda doubt companies are just going to magically lower their standards to give high school grads middle class wages.

            Comment


            • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
              It's amazing how everyone in this country has been brainwashed by the GOP through Laffer/Rand. Never ceases to amaze.
              mookie is starting to think scooby doesn't understand laffer....
              a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

              Comment


              • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

                Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                I kinda doubt companies are just going to magically lower their standards to give high school grads middle class wages.
                if high school taught you the skills companies need.

                also, what magically skills are "companies" expecting? not sure a blanket "companies" is going to address the needs here. many many jobs don't require kollege degrees.
                a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

                Comment


                • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

                  Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
                  mookie is starting to think scooby doesn't understand laffer....
                  Oh, but I do.
                  **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                  Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                  Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                  Comment


                  • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

                    Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                    Medicare for all will save the American people trillions, so we're not really adding debt there. A Green New Deal could potentially pay for itself as could a college proposal. And yes you can take on debt in the short term to do it, we don't have a budget crisis or whatever Paul Ryan wanted you to believe until Trump became president and suddenly it no longer existed.

                    And yes taxes would likely be raised of course.

                    And I'm sure the bankers you talked to were professors who wrote books about MMT.
                    They didnt write books...whats your point? Oh right you dont actually have one you just make wild accusations and attack people and when it gets thrown back on you you change the story in an effort to save face. I always forget your bit...well whatever they may not have written any books but I guarantee they know more about Economic Policy and Monetary Issues than you do so no offense to your ego I will trust them over you and never lose an ounce of sleep over it. There credentials are above reproach.

                    Do you know the difference between the "National Debt" and a consumers "Personal Debt"? It doesnt appear like you do based on this post. Medicare For All will save people trillions, its why I have been in favor of it forever and still am. No one outside of Righty Stooges argues against that point. It will help the individual immensely. It will still cost the US Government money to put that in place and to cover it. (which is why say Sweden has such high taxes) We cant take on that burden tomorrow and not have it cripple us if we cant pay for it. We could have a decade ago but we are trillions in debt with no end in sight. Our budget is ridiculous right now and you want to add even more to it without any way to really offset it.

                    And raising taxes to Clinton levels wont do it...you are going to have to go higher. You mentioned the 1940s...that is the right timeframe if you want to make all this work from where we are right now. You and Scooby can wish away the last 30 years all you want to but that debt exists. The GOP screwed us all...and we have to get our house in order.

                    The problem with the Progressives (of which I am one) is they dont accept you can take small steps to get to your final goal. Start by getting taxes back to a respectable level. This has to be in place long before any of these things can work. Then, in the case of college, you go with 2 years free which is a popular ideal. Then, after you have that all in place and people have a chance to warm to it you then add to it. You dont just say "Starting on X date all college is free" and go from there. That is a recipe for disaster.
                    "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                    -aparch

                    "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                    -INCH

                    Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                    -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                    Comment


                    • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

                      Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
                      if high school taught you the skills companies need.
                      Even if they did what's to stop companies from still saying they want a college degree for your typical entry level analyst positions? What makes you think they're just going to magically get rid of that requirement just because high schools suddenly "teach better skills"? The degrees most of these companies want for these positions require multiple semesters of calculus, organic chem, and other courses that require a rigorous mathematical and/or statistical background. You're not just gonna cram that into high school curriculum and teach it to everyone, it's not practical.

                      Comment


                      • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

                        There are a ton of great policy points here.

                        But you've got to get into the white house or none of it matters. The white house = the midwest...and the policies that win the midwest are the ones to campaign on. Trying to achieve reality or a pipe dream can come later.
                        Go Gophers!

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

                          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                          Oh, but I do.
                          go on then....
                          a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

                          Comment


                          • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

                            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                            This is what always happens. The GOP blows the bank (Reagan, W, his dad until he passed the tax increase and then it lost him the election) and now Trump. And the Democrat (Clinton, Obama) has to get everything back in line.

                            And it's happening again. And you're probably right as to what will happen. And we'll never ever get that 23 trillion back. And this country will die, just like Rome.
                            We can get it back if we are smart. Raise the taxes first, start paying things back and then go for gold. Bill Clinton had the right idea and that is why despite the smearing (and the fact he is scum) he still is considered a great President. Get the tax issue under control, start paying off the debt and THEN you take the next logical step. You do that there is way less strain on the economy and your popularity will get you across the goal line on a lot of these issues.

                            I know it isnt the way we want things...as I say to my dad I would rather us go broke giving everyone what they need and saying "screw the military" and "I will pay my share" but if a candidate says that they lose and you are smart enough to know that. The goal here is first and foremost to win. I dont care who it is but we need to win. Then we get rid of the last 5 tax cuts, get money coming back in so we can fix the roads and bridges and THEN you hit the people with the grand plan. No one has the juice to get everything we all want, so lets get some cash and put the whole thing together piece by piece.

                            And BTW going back to the original point...I dont even really think Klobuchar is that great but I do think she has the right idea. Take the digestible steps first and go from there.
                            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                            -aparch

                            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                            -INCH

                            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                            Comment


                            • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

                              I always forget your bit...well whatever they may not have written any books but I guarantee they know more about Economic Policy and Monetary Issues than you do so no offense to your ego I will trust them over you and never lose an ounce of sleep over it. There credentials are above reproach.
                              Their credentials can't possibly be that great if they don't understand how our economy pays for things or the basics of modern monetary theory. But don't even take it from me, take it from Stephanie Kelton or the various others who have written about modern monetary theory and give lectures as professors on the subject.

                              Do you know the difference between the "National Debt" and a consumers "Personal Debt"? It doesnt appear like you do based on this post. Medicare For All will save people trillions, its why I have been in favor of it forever and still am. No one outside of Righty Stooges argues against that point. It will help the individual immensely. It will still cost the US Government money to put that in place and to cover it. (which is why say Sweden has such high taxes) We cant take on that burden tomorrow and not have it cripple us if we cant pay for it. We could have a decade ago but we are trillions in debt with no end in sight. Our budget is ridiculous right now and you want to add even more to it without any way to really offset it.
                              Yeah I literally just tried to explain to you the difference and you somehow ignored it. Our country has the ability to print the most sought after currency in the world, we literally can't default on our debt.

                              And raising taxes to Clinton levels wont do it...you are going to have to go higher. You mentioned the 1940s...that is the right timeframe if you want to make all this work from where we are right now. You and Scooby can wish away the last 30 years all you want to but that debt exists. The GOP screwed us all...and we have to get our house in order.
                              We'd likely need to raise taxes to somewhere between the rate AOC mentioned or higher, I'm not gonna pretend to know the exact number or all of the different tax policies Bernie and others have proposed.

                              Comment


                              • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: Weekend at Bernie's

                                Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                                We can get it back if we are smart. Raise the taxes first, start paying things back and then go for gold. Bill Clinton had the right idea and that is why despite the smearing (and the fact he is scum) he still is considered a great President. Get the tax issue under control, start paying off the debt and THEN you take the next logical step. You do that there is way less strain on the economy and your popularity will get you across the goal line on a lot of these issues.

                                I know it isnt the way we want things...as I say to my dad I would rather us go broke giving everyone what they need and saying "screw the military" and "I will pay my share" but if a candidate says that they lose and you are smart enough to know that. The goal here is first and foremost to win. I dont care who it is but we need to win. Then we get rid of the last 5 tax cuts, get money coming back in so we can fix the roads and bridges and THEN you hit the people with the grand plan. No one has the juice to get everything we all want, so lets get some cash and put the whole thing together piece by piece.
                                It could work. But we're going to need more than 8 years straight of control. The Republican Senate in 2020 is going to block everything just like they did for the Negro. So, it's going to take control and it's going to take more guts than we had when Obama had control his first two years. And then you need to hope the electorate doesn't swing back. Otherwise it'll be like this forever.
                                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                                Comment

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