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  • Re: AOC Rules!

    Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    I don’t think you understand just how complex these piping systems are.
    If you are going to try to convince me that piping systems are more complex than, say, cars, go for it. I'm an engineer, and can't possibly see that they are nearly as complex as other products that are held to very high standards of reliability.

    I recently saw that the Embridge break in western Michigan was caused by corrosion. How in the world could they let that happen???? It's metal, and they control what goes in it, and the environment that it sits in is well known. Not easy, but well known enough that cars now made are robust to the environment in Michigan. For a pipe to fail due to corrosion tells me that there's either incompetence or they are downplaying risks to save money. They can't claim that it was some kind of unknown.

    And this pipe going through the Dakotas- it's brand freaking new. How can it fail so quickly??? They know what's going in, they know the environment it sits in. You tell me- is it negligence or just stupidity? Neither of which should have gotten the permit to build it.

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    • Re: AOC Rules!

      Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
      By that same theory Wells Fargo shouldn't make car loans to people who might violate traffic laws (simple failures), lest Wells be held liable for someone's bad driving choices (dumb failures) that may cause great harms.
      Excellent point.
      Code:
      As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
      College Hockey 6       College Football 0
      BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
      Originally posted by SanTropez
      May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
      Originally posted by bigblue_dl
      I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
      Originally posted by Kepler
      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
      He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

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      • Re: AOC Rules!

        Originally posted by Rover View Post
        Not sure how the discussion ended up here but I will grudgingly admit that Hovey has a point. If FedEx had a pristine record of hiring pilots, so much so that WF lent them money to expand their fleet, and then afterwards FedEx either hired a bad one or an existing one went downhill, I don't see how WF for all their faults is in any way responsible for any damages. I would also question if the court system would even allow a law like that to exist but I'll let the many legal beagles out here answer that.



        I'm not aware of bartenders being criminally charged for overserving somebody and then them getting into an accident? The bar itself will get sued if that's where the person got loaded at however and liability insurance for this very reason tends to be significant in this industry.
        Dramshop does allow for such charges. I have to renew my Dramshop testing every year and it is beaten into us.
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        • Re: AOC Rules!

          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
          Excellent point.
          No, it's really not. Wells Fargo does not say they are against cars or their drivers.
          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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          • Re: AOC Rules!

            Originally posted by alfablue View Post
            If you are going to try to convince me that piping systems are more complex than, say, cars, go for it. I'm an engineer, and can't possibly see that they are nearly as complex as other products that are held to very high standards of reliability.

            I recently saw that the Embridge break in western Michigan was caused by corrosion. How in the world could they let that happen???? It's metal, and they control what goes in it, and the environment that it sits in is well known. Not easy, but well known enough that cars now made are robust to the environment in Michigan. For a pipe to fail due to corrosion tells me that there's either incompetence or they are downplaying risks to save money. They can't claim that it was some kind of unknown.

            And this pipe going through the Dakotas- it's brand freaking new. How can it fail so quickly??? They know what's going in, they know the environment it sits in. You tell me- is it negligence or just stupidity? Neither of which should have gotten the permit to build it.
            Because you don’t hear about the pipelines that just work. All you hear about are the ones that don’t. There are probably tens of thousands of miles of pipeline. Statistically there will be a failure. And statistically there are no better ways to transport oil. NONE.
            Code:
            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
            Originally posted by SanTropez
            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
            Originally posted by Kepler
            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

            Comment


            • Re: AOC Rules!

              Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
              Because you don’t hear about the pipelines that just work. All you hear about are the ones that don’t. There are probably tens of thousands of miles of pipeline. Statistically there will be a failure. And statistically there are no better ways to transport oil. NONE.
              I understand that they are the best way of transporting oil. Nobody is arguing that at all.

              What IS being argued is that they need to be built better. Just being better than in a rail car is not good enough.

              Yes, the statistics say that there will be failures. But engineering and science also is capable of reducing the odds, considerably. Which is what everyone here is arguing. The pipeline running through the Dakotas is brand new, yet it's failed already. You can't tell me that it's purely statistics there- this is something where the built in safety factors are so big that the failure rate isn't something that would ever make the news. This isn't hard, it's just expensive.

              AOC is attacking WF because they didn't do a good enough job making sure it would be made good enough to meet WF's corporate standard AND that WF claims to be concerned about Global Warming.

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              • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                Just read the Wikipedia page on the Ogallala. It’s enormous Something like seven states use it. Including states that produce an assload of corn. That corn feeds all sorts of livestock among other things.
                Oh no!
                Without corn we’d have no gas!!
                a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                • Re: AOC Rules!

                  Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                  Because you don’t hear about the pipelines that just work. All you hear about are the ones that don’t. There are probably tens of thousands of miles of pipeline. Statistically there will be a failure. And statistically there are no better ways to transport oil. NONE.
                  Sure. I believe in Engineering. I believe in Science. I do not believe in American Capitalism to bring out the best in either..
                  **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                  Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                  Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                  • Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                    Right, the green new deal addresses a lot of this stuff with the job guarantee.
                    Guaranteed jobs in fracking for the US gov?!?!
                    a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                    • Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                      I understand that they are the best way of transporting oil. Nobody is arguing that at all.

                      What IS being argued is that they need to be built better. Just being better than in a rail car is not good enough.

                      Yes, the statistics say that there will be failures. But engineering and science also is capable of reducing the odds, considerably. Which is what everyone here is arguing. The pipeline running through the Dakotas is brand new, yet it's failed already. You can't tell me that it's purely statistics there- this is something where the built in safety factors are so big that the failure rate isn't something that would ever make the news. This isn't hard, it's just expensive.

                      AOC is attacking WF because they didn't do a good enough job making sure it would be made good enough to meet WF's corporate standard AND that WF claims to be concerned about Global Warming.
                      It’s not like there weren’t plenty of people saying that the planning and analysis before it was built was questionable as well. It’s not like this is entirely hindsight or unforeseen.

                      Also this company has a horrible track record
                      Sunoco Logistics, the future operator of the pipeline, has spilled crude oil from its onshore pipelines more often since 2010 than any other US pipeline operator, with at least 203 leaks disclosed to the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration,[110] with a total of 3,406 barrels (143,100 US gal; 541.5 m3) of crude oil spilled.

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                      • Re: AOC Rules!

                        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                        That's what liability insurance is for, hello.
                        And you think Wells et al don't verify that all permitting and legal requirements (i.e. liability coverage) are met before cutting a loan check?

                        If Wells loaned money to someone not meeting the legals, sure, liable.
                        Last edited by The Sicatoka; 03-14-2019, 10:29 PM.
                        The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

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                        • Re: AOC Rules!

                          Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                          This pipeline is a great example- it's such a simple device- a pipe-
                          You really aren't so daft as to think a pipeline is just a pipe. The bill of materials for a single pumping station along a pipeline is close to one million items, including pumps rated for 1000 or more horsepower. The interlocks just to start a pipeline pump rival the interlocks to pull rods on a nuclear reactor.

                          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                          I don’t think you understand just how complex these piping systems are.
                          alfa, if dx and I agree about something you probably want to re-evaluate your take.
                          The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

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                          • Re: AOC Rules!

                            Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                            If FedEx is partially held responsible, they will do a better job finding pilots. Just like if WF was partially held responsible, they would do a better job knowing what they are financing, and make sure whoever builds will do a better job. At some point, companies have to be held liable, to the point of officials going to prison, to reduce the odds of dumb failures. This pipeline is a great example- it's such a simple device- a pipe- yet they have more than their obvious share of failures. Given that they do such a simple job in a simple way, it's clear to me that the builders and operators cut corners to save money. And if the "go out of business" when a failure happens, who gets held responsible? Tax payers. And that's not the way to make sure that failures are avoided.
                            So we want Wells Fargo to become experts in the Oil and Gas industry?
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                            • Re: AOC Rules!

                              Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
                              You really aren't so daft as to think a pipeline is just a pipe. The bill of materials for a single pumping station along a pipeline is close to one million items, including pumps rated for 1000 or more horsepower. The interlocks just to start a pipeline pump rival the interlocks to pull rods on a nuclear reactor.



                              alfa, if dx and I agree about something you probably want to re-evaluate your take.
                              This. All of this. I agree with DX's take on AOC's bit with WF.
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                              • Re: AOC Rules!

                                Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                                If you are going to try to convince me that piping systems are more complex than, say, cars, go for it. I'm an engineer, and can't possibly see that they are nearly as complex as other products that are held to very high standards of reliability.
                                Then you have no idea the complexity, and monitoring, and volumes, these systems carry.
                                The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

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