AOC Rules!

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: AOC Rules!

And how do you propose we transport the oil?

I propose the people transporting the oil and making money off of it pay for the clean up. That's not what is happening.

[Kepler]

Re: AOC Rules!

I have used that one too much on you...figured I would switch it up

That one makes sense, though. Particularly for me since I was admitted to Cornell as an Aggie (that's where the Journalism major was -- go figure).

[Rover]

Re: AOC Rules!

I have to disagree with AOC on one point here (ducks lightening bolt). You can grow production of natural gas, a fossil fuel, IF its taking the place of dirtier forms of energy (coal, oil) and still benefit the environment. Yes we should eventually move on from that as well, but if you could say increase production to switch trucks and busses from petroleum based fuel to compressed natural gas for example, you'd do the environment a lot of good.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: AOC Rules!

I have to disagree with AOC on one point here (ducks lightening bolt). You can grow production of natural gas, a fossil fuel, IF its taking the place of dirtier forms of energy (coal, oil) and still benefit the environment. Yes we should eventually move on from that as well, but if you could say increase production to switch trucks and busses from petroleum based fuel to compressed natural gas for example, you'd do the environment a lot of good.

Yes, of course.

The number one thing here is to stop socializing the losses.

[Kepler]

Re: AOC Rules!

I have to disagree with AOC on one point here (ducks lightening bolt). You can grow production of natural gas, a fossil fuel, IF its taking the place of dirtier forms of energy (coal, oil) and still benefit the environment. Yes we should eventually move on from that as well, but if you could say increase production to switch trucks and busses from petroleum based fuel to compressed natural gas for example, you'd do the environment a lot of good.

In Civ VI: Gathering Storm you run into a lot of serious problems late in the game with the environment because of carbon emissions. Retooling coal plants into oil plants reduces carbon emissions, even though the oil plants are still really dirty (indeed one thing that comes across in the game is how ludicrously dirty coal is). You often need the power generation of the fossil fuels to build hydroelectric dams and create the units which allow you to seed your territory with wind farms and solar collectors.

tl; dr: Agreed.

[Rover]

Re: AOC Rules!

Yes, of course.

The number one thing here is to stop socializing the losses.

Small levy on fossil fuel producers to raise funds put aside to pay for inevitable environmental cleanup should to the trick.

[Kepler]

Re: AOC Rules!

Small levy on fossil fuel producers

Aren't we still subsidizing them -- i.e., doing EXACTLY the opposite?

Energy is a powerful group of rich twats. The most powerful in the world after Finance, and the only other one that could topple democratic government if we tried to prevent their brigandage (unless you think of Religion as an industry).

[Rover]

Re: AOC Rules!

Aren't we still subsidizing them -- i.e., doing EXACTLY the opposite?

Energy is a powerful group of rich twats. The most powerful in the world after Finance, and the only other one that could topple democratic government if we tried to prevent their brigandage (unless you think of Religion as an industry).

You are correct. As I posted a long time ago, giving tax breaks to oil companies to drill for oil is like giving tax breaks to McDonalds to make hamburgers. There are so many low hanging fruit when it comes to reforming the tax code (carried interest and deferred comp being some of the others) that affect so few people you might not even need that 99% tax rate on the top earners to pay for liberal social programs!

[alfablue]

Re: AOC Rules!

And how do you propose we transport the oil?

WF should at least offer to put out a loan for the clean up. They know the risks, they also claim that they are trying to help the environment. So at least be part of the clean up.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: AOC Rules!

Small levy on fossil fuel producers to raise funds put aside to pay for inevitable environmental cleanup should to the trick.

Yes. The same thing is being worked on in Minnesota for any new mines for metal that are being started up north. Hopefully they won't **** it up.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: AOC Rules!

WF should at least offer to put out a loan for the clean up. They know the risks, they also claim that they are trying to help the environment. So at least be part of the clean up.

I’m sure they’d be thrilled for someone to borrow money to clean it up. I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: AOC Rules!

You are correct. As I posted a long time ago, giving tax breaks to oil companies to drill for oil is like giving tax breaks to McDonalds to make hamburgers. There are so many low hanging fruit when it comes to reforming the tax code (carried interest and deferred comp being some of the others) that affect so few people you might not even need that 99% tax rate on the top earners to pay for liberal social programs!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: AOC Rules!

I’m sure they’d be thrilled for someone to borrow money to clean it up. I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

Simple. There should be an account set up for estimated clean up costs before the project is built. If they want to take out a loan for that first, fine. If they want to bank the money and pay it up front that's also fine. No building the pipeline etc. without knowing that this is paid for already.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: AOC Rules!

The problem is with the oil and gas companies. They should be required to have environmental insurance or bonds big enough to cover clean ups. This is pretty simple law and already exists in some places. A lot of the laws came out of clean ups from coal mining in the eastern states. Companies would take out these bonds and then just walk away when stuff went wrong but the bonds were never enough. We need laws in place to require the clean up bonds to be big enough to actually do the job and if thats too expensive for the oil & gas companies...then I guess that work isn't worth it...

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: AOC Rules!

I’m sure they’d be thrilled for someone to borrow money to clean it up. I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

The problem is that its currently easier on Oil & Gas to walk away. A lot of this work is done by shell companies on behalf of big companies so they just go bankrupt and walk away when things go bad which is why as I said some states have started to require bonds/insurance beforehand large enough to cover clean ups.