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  • Re: Maine 2018, 2019 Footba, I mean hockey thread.

    Lol, looks like she snowed tonight! Nobody could see it in their heart to send me a memo? Drive like a ****ed mad man again.

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    • Re: Maine 2018, 2019 Footba, I mean hockey thread.

      Originally posted by Ma#1ne Hky View Post
      "IF" the season continues like it started and now going into the 2nd half he should RESIGN at the end of this season come March...period.
      And throwaway 400,000 bucks? Doubt that happens.

      Even if the Hockey Team doesn't meet our expectations I hope the really important things do. Wishing us all health and happiness in the New Year.
      I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

      Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

      Comment


      • Re: Maine 2018, 2019 Footba, I mean hockey thread.

        Originally posted by walrus View Post
        And throwaway 400,000 bucks? Doubt that happens.

        Even if the Hockey Team doesn't meet our expectations I hope the really important things do. Wishing us all health and happiness in the New Year.
        I'm going with he RESIGNS that he is not entitled to his future contract years pay...not a buy-out but on HIS OWN, he sees the picture and decides what's best for UM Hockey...will he..???? Nope not a chance is my guess. But he will never cut the mustard in getting the Program seeing better days. [imo]

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        • Re: Maine 2018, 2019 Footba, I mean hockey thread.

          Originally posted by BlackI View Post
          Then stop with the I love Timmy thing. Didn't work, never will. Nor your knowledge of recruits. I am as mad as you are, but please...
          Maine is 53rd in the nation in GPG. That's what I know about Red's recruits.

          Happy New Year to all.
          Last edited by Fishman'81; 01-01-2019, 10:54 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BoSox3066 View Post
            The post was about how BU has some foolish season ticket holder letter that reminds me of this thing https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/boston-red-sox/lucchinos-maddening-letter-season-ticket-holders

            “Pal”
            Yeah you’re right.

            Comment


            • Re: Maine 2018, 2019 Footba, I mean hockey thread.

              I think we all know Tim is not coming back to UMaine. While he may have been unhappy at the time of his dismissal, I'm sure that he is happy to be out of Orono. For the record, he is both coach and fund raiser at Kimball Union and has built a very good program in 3 years (2 consecutive Elite 8 Championships). While he struggled to recruit enough top players for Maine he is able to do it in NH. He is recruiting players from around the world and some of them are going on to play D1 hockey. While this is prep school and not D1, it demonstrates his ability to build a program and be successful. I would not be surprised to see him return to coaching college hockey at some point in the future and prove that he can build a winning program when not following a legend.
              Last edited by Runsub5; 01-01-2019, 01:40 PM.

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              • Originally posted by Runsub5 View Post
                I think we all know Tim is not coming back to UMaine. While he may have been unhappy at the time of his dismissal, I'm sure that he is happy to be out of Orono. For the record, he is both coach and fund raiser at Kimball Union and has built a very good program in 3 years (2 consecutive Elite 8 Championships). While he struggled to recruit enough top players for Maine he is able to do it in NH. He is recruiting players from around the world and some of them are going on to play D1 hockey. While this is prep school and not D1, it demonstrates his ability to build a program and be successful. I would not be surprised to see him return to coaching college hockey at some point in the future and prove that he can build a winning program when not following a legend.
                I suspect when you factor in that Whitehead turns 58 I’m not sure he gets that chance. Not saying that if he found a Norwich like Mike McShane did he wouldn’t jump at it (however McShane still wasn’t 50 when he took the job). Certainly a middling record at Maine and Lowell isn’t going to inspire an AD in Division 1 to hire him to drive a successful program (which I think would be a Whitehead criteria for go back to college) especially knowing you need to change again in 5 years or so and a rebuilding program would seem more willing to go young to bring life back from the top. (Why hiring Gendron was a puzzle back when he was hired). I suspect depending on additional prep responsibilities I doubt the salary difference between most D3 jobs and top winning prep jobs isn’t significant. It would seem it would need to be a Middlebury type D3 job to be the right fit. Note Norwich grabbed Ellsworth from UML who was one of the hot young coaches instead of looking to a Whitehead.
                Let's Go Pirates!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by NorthMike View Post
                  All this talk about a coaching change, getting a big gun etc is dreaming right now. Im resigned to two more years after this one of RG. The school is just going to let him retire it out. If you hear what RG says this year he has already started to scale back. Probably a good chance the next coach is a young coach, or one of the current coaches. Might work or not, in which case maybe we have to have more turnover than what the fans are used to. The program is absolutely ripe for the right leadership, and yes it could bounce back to fill the alfond regularly, folks around here still like hockey.

                  Its all too bad how we got here, really, but looking forward to seeing what happens and better hockey to come.

                  Happy new year all. Keep it between the ditches.
                  As an outsider have a few questions about what your expectations for a coach are and what the schools athletic financial realities.

                  1. What was Walsh’s salary (at least roughly) for the last contract he had and understanding a lot of schools don’t need to disclose how did it compare to the other salaries for coaches in Hockey East. (Realize we are talking say 98-01). Just to compare school committment.

                  2. How much was hiring Walsh in your mind catching lightening in a bottle. To me in 1984 Hockey coaches (who get more time even now to prove they’ve failed) had more security, that changes were more old boy network then hire the aggressive young guy/going out to get another schools coach (unless alumnus) (so Walsh had that lane to himself at that time) and Hockey East, in its infancy itself was ripe for that young guy march through it practically unchallenged (UML was just going D1 in Hockey, NU had one of the good old boys coaching, Ceglarski was a winner but wasn’t going to drive BC to next level as he wasn’t going to match Walsh and Parker’s more aggressive ways, and PC going through 3rd coach in 4 years and UNH about to go through 4 coaches in just a bit longer were lacking stability which meant only BU was positioned to challenge Maine. Never mind changes to number of schools now competing, the other sports taking potential players away from the pool of talent making recruiting tougher and the turnover from early departures or even how quick a player will move on now if not getting playing time

                  3. Am I right give or take a few K Gendron makes 210K. My impression Borek got a better salary so does anyone disagree Maine is lowest salary in the league. You just lost football coach so how does the salary in football and basketball Maine pays their coach compare to other coaches in that league. ((Side question. Does anyone not believe some of the associate head coaches are paid better than Gendron most notably Keefe who would be the hot young guy, but also guys like Pesrl and Rohlston and I suspect 3 or 4 more?)

                  So the final question. What is the monetary range you’d expect Maine to offer a replacement for a Gendron and what has to be on the candidates’s resume to in your mind believe he can earn it (be successful)
                  Let's Go Pirates!

                  Comment


                  • Re: Maine 2018, 2019 Footba, I mean hockey thread.

                    Originally posted by Runsub5 View Post
                    I think we all know Tim is not coming back to UMaine. While he may have been unhappy at the time of his dismissal, I'm sure that he is happy to be out of Orono. For the record, he is both coach and fund raiser at Kimball Union and has built a very good program in 3 years (2 consecutive Elite 8 Championships). While he struggled to recruit enough top players for Maine he is able to do it in NH. He is recruiting players from around the world and some of them are going on to play D1 hockey. While this is prep school and not D1, it demonstrates his ability to build a program and be successful. I would not be surprised to see him return to coaching college hockey at some point in the future and prove that he can build a winning program when not following a legend.
                    I certainly wanted Tim's head on a stick late in his tenure, but Maine went from the frying pan into the fire when he was replaced by Red... I was crossing my fingers back then, but things have gone from bad to worse.

                    Guys on here (well, just Blackie, the expert talent-evaluator) have touted the recruiting, but the proof is in the pudding. It's a very simple calculus. Nothing there to speak of.

                    Even if Scotty Bowman took over this team, it would takes years to re-build it. Red is the worst coach/recruiter Maine has ever had. His program has been a dumpster fire, no if's or but's.
                    Last edited by Fishman'81; 01-01-2019, 08:56 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
                      I certainly wanted Tim's head on a stick late in his tenure, but Maine went from the frying pan into the fire when he was replaced by Red... I was crossing my fingers back then, but things have gone from bad to worse.

                      Guys on here (well, just Blackie, the expert talent-evaluator) have touted the recruiting, but the proof is in the pudding. It's a very simple calculus. Nothing there to speak of.

                      Even if Scotty Bowman took over this team, it would takes years to re-build it. Red is the worst coach/recruiter Maine has ever had. His program has been a dumpster fire, no if's or but's.
                      I suppose I should stand behind my prior statements and say I also think some of the team has talent, in particular Pearson, Fossier, Tralmaks, JSS, and Dawe up front, Keeper and maybe Binner on the back end, and Swayman in net. The problem is, all those guys have regressed since last year if they are returning or not met expectations for the freshman. I dont think any player has improved their game from last year, everybody looks worse. And also as a quick side note, I really hate how Red has been letting Dawe waste away on the 4th line with Perez all season long, the kid can play and deserves significantly more ice time than hes been getting, at least in my opinion.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Maine 2018, 2019 Footba, I mean hockey thread.

                        Originally posted by amkirby10 View Post
                        I suppose I should stand behind my prior statements and say I also think some of the team has talent, in particular Pearson, Fossier, Tralmaks, JSS, and Dawe up front, Keeper and maybe Binner on the back end, and Swayman in net. The problem is, all those guys have regressed since last year if they are returning or not met expectations for the freshman. I dont think any player has improved their game from last year, everybody looks worse. And also as a quick side note, I really hate how Red has been letting Dawe waste away on the 4th line with Perez all season long, the kid can play and deserves significantly more ice time than hes been getting, at least in my opinion.
                        Dawe plays hard each and every shift...plays with heart/grit and more players should take his cue...as for Perez he is a waste of time on the ice, brings nothing to the game no upside for the team, he looks for the hit and not the hockey play...the amount of ice time he gets is to no benefit to the team...and that is because of who is behind the bench.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Maine 2018, 2019 Footba, I mean hockey thread.

                          Originally posted by cavbim View Post
                          As an outsider have a few questions about what your expectations for a coach are and what the schools athletic financial realities.
                          Am I right give or take a few K Gendron makes 210K. My impression Borek got a better salary so does anyone disagree Maine is lowest salary in the league. You just lost football coach so how does the salary in football and basketball Maine pays their coach compare to other coaches in that league. ((Side question. Does anyone not believe some of the associate head coaches are paid better than Gendron most notably Keefe who would be the hot young guy, but also guys like Pesrl and Rohlston and I suspect 3 or 4 more?)

                          So the final question. What is the monetary range you’d expect Maine to offer a replacement for a Gendron and what has to be on the candidates’s resume to in your mind believe he can earn it (be successful)
                          This question about what umaine is willing or can afford to pay a coach is often discussed, yes there are realistic limits. We are a small state, (1.3million) with a population who has average (nationwide) (I'm estimating) disposable income to spend on university athletics. A large part of the schools funding comes from the State with a variety of other sources mixed in there. (there is a BDN article from 2012 that has a good write up about how umaine athletics are funded). When the time comes to replace RG that’s going to be the N01 challenge for Ken Ralph – how much and who. I cant speculate on any of that other than to say that the school needs to decide how important a successful hockey program is and then go from there. Realistically I don’t think the school will pay the rate to hire a known successful coach or highly sought after coach. They should look at a higher coach salary level to get off the bottom of the pay scale and stay with what Div 1 hockey is costing these days.

                          Given what we have seen from the head coach since the Shawn era my inclination for a coach would be to go in a different direction – younger, energetic, one capable of motivating the players, and one with some recruiting success, certainly D1 experience. Big order. Realistically we may see one of the current coaches Ben or Alfie given the reigns. This has been done and worked with other sports at Umaine.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Maine 2018, 2019 Footba, I mean hockey thread.

                            Originally posted by cavbim View Post
                            As an outsider have a few questions about what your expectations for a coach are and what the schools athletic financial realities.

                            1. What was Walsh’s salary (at least roughly) for the last contract he had and understanding a lot of schools don’t need to disclose how did it compare to the other salaries for coaches in Hockey East. (Realize we are talking say 98-01). Just to compare school committment.

                            2. How much was hiring Walsh in your mind catching lightening in a bottle. To me in 1984 Hockey coaches (who get more time even now to prove they’ve failed) had more security, that changes were more old boy network then hire the aggressive young guy/going out to get another schools coach (unless alumnus) (so Walsh had that lane to himself at that time) and Hockey East, in its infancy itself was ripe for that young guy march through it practically unchallenged (UML was just going D1 in Hockey, NU had one of the good old boys coaching, Ceglarski was a winner but wasn’t going to drive BC to next level as he wasn’t going to match Walsh and Parker’s more aggressive ways, and PC going through 3rd coach in 4 years and UNH about to go through 4 coaches in just a bit longer were lacking stability which meant only BU was positioned to challenge Maine. Never mind changes to number of schools now competing, the other sports taking potential players away from the pool of talent making recruiting tougher and the turnover from early departures or even how quick a player will move on now if not getting playing time

                            3. Am I right give or take a few K Gendron makes 210K. My impression Borek got a better salary so does anyone disagree Maine is lowest salary in the league. You just lost football coach so how does the salary in football and basketball Maine pays their coach compare to other coaches in that league. ((Side question. Does anyone not believe some of the associate head coaches are paid better than Gendron most notably Keefe who would be the hot young guy, but also guys like Pesrl and Rohlston and I suspect 3 or 4 more?)

                            So the final question. What is the monetary range you’d expect Maine to offer a replacement for a Gendron and what has to be on the candidates’s resume to in your mind believe he can earn it (be successful)
                            You're asking the right questions. Maine can afford to go one of two ways with its coaches:

                            1. Young up and comers who are willing to take less salary in order to get a head coaching job. This can work really well in the short term: the Harasymiak model. The downside is, when it works, the coaches leave and move up. When it doesn't work, you get basketball coach Walsh who had some really bad years.

                            2. "Career" guys who have no ambition to move up. This is the Cosgrove model (maybe even the Whitehead or Gendron model). A veteran coach with a low ceiling, who isn't going to try to climb up the occupational ladder. Cosgrove worked perfectly if this is the coach you want- 15 or so seasons, a few playoff appearances, one or two really good teams. But a lot of middling teams. Whitehead was similar, but less beloved because expectations were higher (and his end was messier). Gendron hasn't proven able to get to the heights Whitehead or Cosgrove reached.

                            I personally prefer door number one- bring in young guys who will go all out to win quickly and move up. At least you have a chance at something special in the short term, instead of long term malaise. You may get some duds, but you can move on from them quickly.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Maine 2018, 2019 Footba, I mean hockey thread.

                              Originally posted by AMC View Post
                              You're asking the right questions. Maine can afford to go one of two ways with its coaches:

                              1. Young up and comers who are willing to take less salary in order to get a head coaching job. This can work really well in the short term: the Harasymiak model. The downside is, when it works, the coaches leave and move up. When it doesn't work, you get basketball coach Walsh who had some really bad years.

                              2. "Career" guys who have no ambition to move up. This is the Cosgrove model (maybe even the Whitehead or Gendron model). A veteran coach with a low ceiling, who isn't going to try to climb up the occupational ladder. Cosgrove worked perfectly if this is the coach you want- 15 or so seasons, a few playoff appearances, one or two really good teams. But a lot of middling teams. Whitehead was similar, but less beloved because expectations were higher (and his end was messier). Gendron hasn't proven able to get to the heights Whitehead or Cosgrove reached.

                              I personally prefer door number one- bring in young guys who will go all out to win quickly and move up. At least you have a chance at something special in the short term, instead of long term malaise. You may get some duds, but you can move on from them quickly.
                              Although I'm on board with the starting fresh, new face idea, what about Kevin Swallow? He's currently the coach at UNE, has them in the top 20, and has proven he can win and recruit in Maine. UNE to UMaine is obviously a huge jump but he would be cheap and he's proving he can take teams to the NCAA's.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by cavbim View Post
                                Certainly a middling record at Maine and Lowell isn’t going to inspire an AD in Division 1 to hire him.
                                So 250-171-60 is a 605 winning percentage and by no definition a “middling” record just as a point of information.

                                8 or 9 of the 12 teams in this league would murder for that over 12 years.

                                Maine Hockey: I want to believe
                                43-21-4 (.662) in games I attended over 4 years as a student
                                104-47-14 (.669) in that time
                                3x FROZEN FOUR

                                11-20-2 in games I've attended since. (2-2-1 under Red)

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