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  • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

    OK, economists, a little help.
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    • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      OK, economists, a little help.
      They're arguing, through the concept of MMT, that gov't can pay for something by simply producing (printing) the dollars for it. And they're arguing that inflation will not be a runaway train. I don't fully understand it, having been just introduced to the concept with this article, but I'm skeptical. It feels like something that was contrived with the idea that they simply wanted to be the opposite of St. Ronnie.
      "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

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      • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

        Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
        They're arguing, through the concept of MMT, that gov't can pay for something by simply producing (printing) the dollars for it. And they're arguing that inflation will not be a runaway train. I don't fully understand it, having been just introduced to the concept with this article, but I'm skeptical. It feels like something that was contrived with the idea that they simply wanted to be the opposite of St. Ronnie.
        I understood what I read. I want to know what economists think of the substance of the theory.
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        • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
          I understood what I read. I want to know what economists think of the substance of the theory.
          To me, they're arguing that government spending happens within a bubble, that the economy as a whole won't react to this injection of newly fabricated money by bidding up the prices of products we all use. OR they're counting on the calculations used within the CPI that discounts technological advancements against the CPI calculations. I think it's all hogwash because prices on milk and bread (as the example) are still going to be impacted by an influx of dollarinos into the economy and they're not going to have significant technological changes to those two products that families buy in great volume.
          "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

          "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

          "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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          • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

            My first glance opinion is that it's the left's version of supply side economics.

            To the extent it moves the Overton window back from the far right, great. If it ever got implemented, bad.

            That's just my off the cuff reading of it, though.

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            • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

              Elon Musk announces the quote-unquote "$35,000" Model 3.

              Bare bones options but does have the touchscreen, 220 mile range, $36,200 before rebates (though Tesla's website has one at exactly $35K.)

              $2K option to extend the range to 240 miles and add most of the nice things (like power seats) back in.
              Last edited by Twitch Boy; 03-01-2019, 09:22 AM.
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              • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

                220 miles. Lol. You can probably cut that by a third for cold weather.
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                • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

                  Originally posted by unofan View Post
                  My first glance opinion is that it's the left's version of supply side economics.

                  To the extent it moves the Overton window back from the far right, great. If it ever got implemented, bad.

                  That's just my off the cuff reading of it, though.
                  Seems what they're saying is that tax revenue is irrelevant in terms of covering new spending because the USA's credit is so good that it can simply print new money (most likely via increased borrowing) to fund the Green New Deal. That borrowing will have little negative effect because the US is able to borrow at a really low rate (which is true at present) and will never default on its debt (most likely true as well). Left unsaid in the article is why the USA's credit is good and if that would ever change. One reason is because the dollar is the world's currency with little competition for that title (the Euro is going through Brexit and the Yuan can be manipulated by Chinese dictatorship to suit domestic needs at a whim) hence its in demand. The other is presumably the US Govt has collateral (natural resources, real estate, etc) enough to backstop any borrowing which again is most likely true.

                  I personally think its irresponsible as all hell and will be misused by the treasonous money laundering cult to justify a zero % tax rate for billionaires the next time they're in power. Lizzy Warren has the right idea. Start taxing wealth every year in addition to raising the top level tax rates. You don't need to resort to smoke and mirrors to find the $$$ needed to put some of these programs in place.
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                  • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                    220 miles. Lol. You can probably cut that by a third for cold weather.
                    30 to 40% loss on the regular in very cold weather.

                    Here's an interesting real world test drive article I found, but it's for the Chevy Bolt.

                    The thing is, Tesla's (or any EV) arent quite made for you, I, or anyone who does long distance driving with any frequency. We would need to much more plentiful supercharger stations as frequent as gas stations. EV's will continue to get better, and they're going to become much more popular short distance cars: mostly in cities or suburbs where you don't travel far often.
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                    • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

                      Originally posted by Rover View Post
                      I personally think its irresponsible as all hell and will be misused by the treasonous money laundering cult to justify a zero % tax rate for billionaires the next time they're in power. Lizzy Warren has the right idea. Start taxing wealth every year in addition to raising the top level tax rates. You don't need to resort to smoke and mirrors to find the $$$ needed to put some of these programs in place.
                      Knowing nothing at all about the specifics I gotta say this is my knee jerk reaction, too. I hope I'm wrong.

                      It's a rare day when Rover and I can even agree on the diagnosis of a problem, let alone the prescription.
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                      • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

                        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                        220 miles. Lol. You can probably cut that by a third for cold weather.
                        Getting there, though. Weren't the initial prototypes of this tech something like 90 miles?

                        Dumb question: can miniaturization solve this someday? Seems like the inevitable tech curve is to squeeze more and more into smaller and smaller boxes. Not just information, but real useful power and energy. If Elon's current batteries only store 220 miles, then in 10 years won't it be 10x that in which case problem solved?

                        Let me know if I'm violating a physical law or two with my optimism.

                        I think the huge jump is between being unable to do something and being able to do it at all, even on a risible scale. Once you've made that jump then all of our tools and tricks for improvement kick in -- the difference between a matter of existence (quality) and efficiency (quantity).
                        Last edited by Kepler; 03-01-2019, 10:01 AM.
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                        • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

                          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                          Knowing nothing at all about the specifics I gotta say this is my knee jerk reaction, too. I hope I'm wrong.

                          It's a rare day when Rover and I can even agree on the diagnosis of a problem, let alone the prescription.
                          Dems need to decisively win the battle for much higher tax rates on the rich. They've made tremendous gains since Ronbo's time of winning over the general public on this issue, but now they need to move beyond that into getting this to motivate voters to come out and vote Dem. I don't want to do a head fake on this issue. Last two Dem Presidents have already successfully raised top level tax rates and were re-elected so there should be no qualms about doing that again. Implementing a wealth tax would be a tremendous victory and step forward.
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                          • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

                            Originally posted by Rover View Post
                            Dems need to decisively win the battle for much higher tax rates on the rich. They've made tremendous gains since Ronbo's time of winning over the general public on this issue, but now they need to move beyond that into getting this to motivate voters to come out and vote Dem. I don't want to do a head fake on this issue. Last two Dem Presidents have already successfully raised top level tax rates and were re-elected so there should be no qualms about doing that again. Implementing a wealth tax would be a tremendous victory and step forward.
                            Agree completely. Similar to what I said below about the difference between existence and efficiency, it is vital to get a wealth tax started even if it's 0.1%. The political difference between 0 and 0.1% is larger than 0.1% and 2% (Rover).

                            Or 20% (Kepler).
                            Last edited by Kepler; 03-01-2019, 10:02 AM.
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                            • Re: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 8: Bezos Takes Over the World

                              Originally posted by aparch View Post
                              30 to 40% loss on the regular in very cold weather.

                              Here's an interesting real world test drive article I found, but it's for the Chevy Bolt.

                              The thing is, Tesla's (or any EV) arent quite made for you, I, or anyone who does long distance driving with any frequency. We would need to much more plentiful supercharger stations as frequent as gas stations. EV's will continue to get better, and they're going to become much more popular short distance cars: mostly in cities or suburbs where you don't travel far often.
                              It's too bad they discontinued it, but the Chevy Volt seems like the perfect vehicle for bridging the electric/petro engine divide.
                              "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

                              "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

                              "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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                              • Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                                It's too bad they discontinued it, but the Chevy Volt seems like the perfect vehicle for bridging the electric/petro engine divide.
                                Yep, and I loved that premise of the car and really wanted one (but couldn't afford it). The problem was it only had a 50+ range on battery only. The gas powered generator gave it the oomph for 400 miles and change. Plus, since the generator was only used as a generator* it only had a nine gallon tank (giving it ~45 MPG when it depleated the battery).

                                (*It did have a kick-in-the-*** feature where if you really needed to move the vehicle from point A to point B on the highway (sudden lane shift/acceleration) it would act like a traditional car.)

                                But it got mocked by car enthusiasts as not knowing what type of car it was, mocked by IC Engine users for being a wimpy electric car, and mocked by EV purists for still needing gas.


                                I would rather have a gas/electric hybrid like this for long distance travelling/Upper Midwest living versus an all electric Tesla or Bolt. The safety fallback of "just get me a gallon of gas to get to the station" is nice to have.


                                Maybe soon they can put that hybrid technology and increased battery capacity into the Malibu...
                                Last edited by aparch; 03-01-2019, 12:18 PM.
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