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2018 Four Nations Cup

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  • #76
    Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup

    Originally posted by shelfit View Post
    I have to admit while I was watching I wondered, "Is this the best Canada has to offer?" I was a bit bored by it too. It definitely wasn't very exciting hockey. It's a shame.
    I think the Canadians might be trying to lull the Americans to sleep, making them overconfident and complacent for "the big one" in '22. Until history proves otherwise, I would expect another in a long list of hotly contested battles when they fight for Gold in Beijing.

    Edit: Adding link showing game highlights: https://youtu.be/hi89dzB-Rv0
    Last edited by D2D; 11-11-2018, 12:39 PM.
    Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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    • #77
      Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup

      Originally posted by ne7minder View Post
      Sad that the Canadian announcers (and others in Canada) were constantly calling her "the best goaltender in the world". That might have been true at one time(many would rightly argue that) but not now. It is not her fault they finished second.

      I know it is my prejudice but to me Canadian hockey is always focused on the physical first. You see it on the mens side in spades and it is designed to produce the 'grinders' the NHL desperately needs. Yes, the players need to be tough, it is a physical game. Yes they need to be conditioned & strong. But in a short series, 6-10 games, you are not going to grind down many opponents because they are tough & conditioned also.

      If this string of losses wakes HC up to the need to focus on faster and more skilled players it will be a win for hockey even if it means more losses for USA hockey
      Canadian announcers/media covering hockey canada women's national team = fake news. They have been providing misleading homer-infused journalism and commentary that is just so divorced from the reality of the sad and dead state of team canada women. Simply, they are fake news.

      The arrivals of Coyne and then Kessel in 2013 put this program on life support. This program (including the U18s) is now dead. But team canada women are unwilling to change how they play against usa. They are stuck in a stubborn mindset that the "Grind" type of play is the "Canadian way" of playing hockey, or the "Canadian DNA" if you will. What a dumb phrase. They are so morally sure of themselves, that they think the americans are playing the "wrong" style of hockey or the shortcut way. But anyways, look at these players who are the prototypical "grind" players: Spooner is undoubtedly the master of beep and fitness tests. She was irrelevant during the last quadrennial. Ditto Jenner (who I think should have been cut after Pyeongchang).

      Another problem with team canada women is the culture. The look of resignation in Rebecca Johnston's eyes is just sad to see. Jenner wants to be friends with all of team usa. poulin is no ouellette or wickenheiser. Many a fluff piece is dedicated to who is the queen of "hungry hungry hippos" and games called "pie hole face" wherein they throw whipped cream at each others' faces. And of course, Mel Davidson is still running much of the show. And then now, team canada women realized what a critical mistake they made in bringing in all the all female coaching staffs and in an attempt to reverse this mistake, just hired a former NHL men's coach to coach this team who moans about how mean the NHL was to him and how much nicer the women are treating him, and that he is trying to use this women's coaching experience to get a job with the NHL again.

      I am not sure that Szabados will continue much longer, if at all, and if she retires, hats off to her. She has arguably been the most valuable player for team canada women during the 2010 and 2014 Olympics and has done everything she could to give team canada women a chance even when they didn't deserve it. She and Haley Irwin will be greatly missed.
      Last edited by Chaffron; 11-11-2018, 08:46 PM.

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      • #78
        Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup

        Originally posted by Chaffron View Post
        Canadian announcers/media covering hockey canada women's national team = fake news. They have been providing misleading homer-infused journalism and commentary that is just so divorced from the reality of the sad and dead state of team canada women. Simply, they are fake news.
        Be grateful it is only hockey they are misleading about! One of the funniest (from an American perspective) scenes happened a few years ago when the Canadian men lost the 4th place game at a world championship. If you didn't have the sound on you would have assumed the PM had been assassinated. There were calls for a national commission to fix whatever was wrong.

        But I really do hope they fix what is wrong. It is not good to have one team always dominant. It really is not healthy in the long run to have to only have 2+1 teams. The last couple of events I feel like Finland is slipping and we need them to push HC & USAH but it would be better still if Sweden, Germany, Russia, Norway and Switzerland all could step up their games so there was always a struggle to land in the final game. I don't like to see 'my' team lose but if the game is going to grow the risk needs to be there

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        • #79
          Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup

          Originally posted by ne7minder View Post
          It is not good to have one team always dominant. It really is not healthy in the long run to have to only have 2+1 teams. The last couple of events I feel like Finland is slipping and we need them to push HC & USAH but it would be better still if Sweden, Germany, Russia, Norway and Switzerland all could step up their games so there was always a struggle to land in the final game. I don't like to see 'my' team lose but if the game is going to grow the risk needs to be there
          Great points, ne7minder, couldn't agree more. If the men can have extremely competitive international tournaments, why shouldn't the women? One would hope that it's just historical, in that the men's game has been around much longer, and within each country they've had a lot more time to grow their talent level?

          Back to Canada and Chaffron's dismay with Team Canada, it would be interesting to see exactly what changes he/she believes should be made. Chaffron, please post your "dream lineup" that you would like to see represent Canada in the next international tournament (not sure, but might this not be the 2019 IIHF World's?).

          Also, who would you recommend to coach the team, and who should take over as head of Canadian women's hockey? Obviously, that person should not be Mel Davidson, in your opinion, so who best to lead the whole organization, with Davidson no longer involved? Assume it's you, with a free reign, and the coaching staff and player roster is your's to determine.
          Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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          • #80
            Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup

            Originally posted by D2D View Post
            Great points, ne7minder, couldn't agree more. If the men can have extremely competitive international tournaments, why shouldn't the women? One would hope that it's just historical, in that the men's game has been around much longer, and within each country they've had a lot more time to grow their talent level?
            For reasons I've never been able to tease out, the North American countries dominate women's team sports. It's not just hockey; in just about every sport, the U.S. women's team is better relative to the rest of the world than the men's team. The American women's soccer team may not always be way ahead of everyone else, but year in and year out, they're the best team in the world; Canada is also consistently higher ranked than the men's team. The American women's basketball team is even more dominant than the men's teams. American women's volleyball rarely loses to anyone.

            It's strange, because it isn't like this in individual, rather than team, sports. And European countries have professional hockey and basketball leagues that pay more than their North American counterparts, though WNBA teams are better on the court, and I suspect that NWHL and CWHL teams would be the same. The Europeans just don't seem to have the same commitment to team sports at the youth level. I'd guess that Title IX is a significant factor, and the related aspect that sports are tied to schools here in ways that they aren't in the rest of the world.

            But the evidence suggests that the disparity is more structural than just not having had enough time to develop programs.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by D2D View Post
              Great points, ne7minder, couldn't agree more. If the men can have extremely competitive international tournaments, why shouldn't the women? One would hope that it's just historical, in that the men's game has been around much longer, and within each country they've had a lot more time to grow their talent level?

              Back to Canada and Chaffron's dismay with Team Canada, it would be interesting to see exactly what changes he/she believes should be made. Chaffron, please post your "dream lineup" that you would like to see represent Canada in the next international tournament (not sure, but might this not be the 2019 IIHF World's?).

              Also, who would you recommend to coach the team, and who should take over as head of Canadian women's hockey? Obviously, that person should not be Mel Davidson, in your opinion, so who best to lead the whole organization, with Davidson no longer involved? Assume it's you, with a free reign, and the coaching staff and player roster is your's to determine.
              Chaffron's daughter should obviously be the Hockey Canada women's GM, national team head coach, and first line player all at the same time. That would make up for her being snubbed by Mel & company.

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              • #82
                Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup

                Originally posted by shelfit View Post
                Chaffron's daughter should obviously be the Hockey Canada women's GM, national team head coach, and first line player all at the same time. That would make up for her being snubbed by Mel & company.
                you should have quit when you said this:
                Originally posted by shelfit View Post
                I have to admit while I was watching I wondered, "Is this the best Canada has to offer?" I was a bit bored by it too. It definitely wasn't very exciting hockey. It's a shame.
                the allure of women's hockey is that it can be an exciting game based on skill and speed rather than brawn
                but the way Canada plays, while perhaps their formula for winning gold, makes for a boring game when they play the US.
                If I want to watch NHL hockey, I'll watch the NHL.
                Last edited by pokechecker; 11-12-2018, 10:30 AM.

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                • #83
                  Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup

                  Maybe Canada won’t even need a national team down the road. Maybe nobody will.

                  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/s...-olympics.html

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                  • #84
                    Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup

                    Originally posted by thirdtime's . . . View Post
                    Maybe Canada won’t even need a national team down the road. Maybe nobody will.

                    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/s...-olympics.html
                    It would be kinda sad to see the death of Chaffron's quad bit...
                    At the outset, we could hang with the dude...

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post
                      It would be kinda sad to see the death of Chaffron's quad bit...
                      Four sure!

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by dd17 View Post
                        Watts couldn't do the required number of push ups expected by Team Canada. Last Team Canada win at any level? 2014 Olympics. Heck even the Canadian University girls beat the U22 team 3 times last August and they had to pay their own way to attend limiting the best players from going.
                        Looked this up on the HC website because I couldn’t believe it and you are off a bit but not by a lot. Last team to win an international event was the 2014 U18 team. Unbelievable!

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                        • #87
                          Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup

                          Not too far off topic I hope, but I wanted to share this article and not make a new thread. This is a great profile on Jayna Hefford, who goes into the Hall of Fame tonight. The article is unlocked, no sub required.

                          https://theathletic.com/625674/2018/...ockey-journey/

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Puckdrop14 View Post
                            Looked this up on the HC website because I couldn’t believe it and you are off a bit but not by a lot. Last team to win an international event was the 2014 U18 team. Unbelievable!
                            There's no way that could possibly be right... Is there?
                            Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                            Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                            Twitter: @Salzano14


                            Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Puckdrop14 View Post
                              Looked this up on the HC website because I couldn’t believe it and you are off a bit but not by a lot. Last team to win an international event was the 2014 U18 team. Unbelievable!
                              My dyslexia kicked in and I read this as the 2018 U14 team. Lol.

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                              • #90
                                Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup

                                Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                                There's no way that could possibly be right... Is there?
                                It's not correct, but close. Team Canada won the 2014 Four Nations, which took place seven months after the 2014 U-18 world championship. As far as I can tell, they haven't won a tournament since then.

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