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Thread: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

  1. #781
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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    On the ultimate decision, it was 5-4 ideological lines, with Roberts siding with the liberals. But just barely.
    Roberts found a technicality like in the ACA case to do it.
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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    No. Question is a no-go for now, but it's possible it could still be added.

    Basically, the department needs to explain why it wants it without lying. And that reason has to be legal under the APA.

    Here, the departments reason was a lie, so it couldn't satisfy the APA. But it could presumably try to add it again.
    You gave us your real reason and that's unconstitutional so come back with a lie and we'll buy it.
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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    No. Question is a no-go for now, but it's possible it could still be added.

    Basically, the department needs to explain why it wants it without lying. And that reason has to be legal under the APA.

    Here, the departments reason was a lie, so it couldn't satisfy the APA. But it could presumably try to add it again.
    How could they possibly get away with that though on a lower court level now that the cat's out of the bag? It seems the court took into account the info found on the dead Gooper operative's computer even though it hadn't formally been presented as evidence yet. Something that Thomas noted in his dissent. If Ross goes to court and argues differently he ought to walk out of there in leg irons after being arrested for perjury. The reasons behind adding the citizenship question are now clear and well known.
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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    And in an anti climatic end,the Indian case will be set for reargument next term.

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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    You gave us your real reason and that's unconstitutional so come back with a lie and we'll buy it.
    I'm not sure Roberts likes being lied to. IIRC the court had as similar ruling when states tried to shut down abortion clinics using zoning rules. In essence it was don't BS us about your real motivations. Similar to the ACA ruling as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Kep

    For the record - I'm a Roman Catholic who is very skeptical of the Jesuits. VERY SKEPTICAL. If they're for it, I don't take it as gospel they're right. I'm also very skeptical of the government. I believe it needs to be limited in its intrusion beyond "life, liberty, and the *pursuit* of happiness (emphasis mine)". I believe in strong states and the 10th amendment. I believe in a Congress and an Executive Branch working together with the SCOTUS playing umpire. The Voters are VAR.

    So with that, while disappointed in the gerrymander case, I think the SCOTUS was right. Leave it to the voters (who in my state, are disgusted with everyone's gerrymander but their own). As to what level the disgust has to rise to in order to replace the political inertia is something we have to watch. I'm not optimistic for Maryland.
    By leaving it to the voters, do you mean having voters implement independent districting commissions? Because outside of that, data mining has allowed republicans to maintain large majorities in certain state governments despite slight to overwhelming defeats in the popular vote. So outside of large demographic movements, it will be almost impossible to defeat those.

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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I'm not sure Roberts likes being lied to. IIRC the court had as similar ruling when states tried to shut down abortion clinics using zoning rules. In essence it was don't BS us about your real motivations. Similar to the ACA ruling as well.
    That's one trait I can appreciate.
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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Supreme Court allows partisan gerrymandering. Of ****ing course
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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Does the Court have to accept the state's argument as if it were true and then rule on that or can it say, "no, we know the state is lying"?

    My layman's understand is juries decide fact and judges decide law, therefore the state can lie before a judge and get away with it. In the Census case the state is obviously lying. The sole purpose is to suppress brown votes. They have documented evidence. It's inarguable. But if the state brings in a completely concocted argument does the Court have any means of declaring the state is in bad faith? Does the other attorney have a method of making that the pivot of the decision?
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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
    By leaving it to the voters, do you mean having voters implement independent districting commissions?
    IINM they almost ruled that independent districting commissions were unconstitutional -- Kennedy stopped them and then only because it was a referendum. With Drunky McRapist on the Court who knows?

    It's a slow moving coup but it's not really that slow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    Supreme Court allows partisan gerrymandering. Of ****ing course
    One article I saw said its not a federal issue. So this becomes a state issue only then?

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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Quote Originally Posted by aparch View Post
    One article I saw said its not a federal issue. So this becomes a state issue only then?
    Yes States can decide it the SC said it wasnt an issue for the Federal Court to decide.
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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Yes States can decide it the SC said it wasnt an issue for the Federal Court to decide.
    Lovely. Liberal states courts will strike liberal partisan gerrymandering down but conservative state courts will let conservative partisan gerrymandering stand.

    Once again, the dummies beat the smarties because they have no conscience.
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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    No. Question is a no-go for now, but it's possible it could still be added.
    I'll be shocked if it's not added. This isn't 1979. It doesn't take almost a year to hold the presses and get their story straight.

    Even if it doesn't go out the ruling is a ceramic dalmatian compared to the gerrymandering verdict.

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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Quote Originally Posted by sagard View Post
    I'll be shocked if it's not added. This isn't 1979. It doesn't take almost a year to hold the presses and get their story straight.

    Even if it doesn't go out the ruling is a ceramic dalmatian compared to the gerrymandering verdict.
    Gerrymandering is about the GOP cheating in some states now. Census is about the GOP cheating in all states in the future. The consequences of the latter are far more devastating. Combined with their Gestapo raids on Latino homes they're on their way to their white nationalist homeland.

    It's really noteworthy how no conservative will stand up against them. What a bunch of cowards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
    By leaving it to the voters, do you mean having voters implement independent districting commissions? Because outside of that, data mining has allowed republicans to maintain large majorities in certain state governments despite slight to overwhelming defeats in the popular vote. So outside of large demographic movements, it will be almost impossible to defeat those.
    In my state (MD), the Ds have full, veto proof control of the legislative process. The voters need to replace a few to eliminate the super majority. If they don't want to, then it is same old, same old.

    My county (Montgomery) is worse. We have a 9 member council, 5 elected by districts and 4 at-large. The Tacoma Park triangle (ultra progressive) controls a majority of council members. To change to 9 single member districts would require local and Annapolis approval. Not going to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Lovely. Liberal states courts will strike liberal partisan gerrymandering down but conservative state courts will let conservative partisan gerrymandering stand.

    Once again, the dummies beat the smarties because they have no conscience.
    Exactly. The farmer with the shotgun just told the foxes to guard their own darn henhouses.

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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Lovely. Liberal states courts will strike liberal partisan gerrymandering down but conservative state courts will let conservative partisan gerrymandering stand.

    Once again, the dummies beat the smarties because they have no conscience.
    Correct. Liberals lose again. Because, well, reasons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LynahFan View Post
    Exactly. The farmer with the shotgun just told the foxes to guard their own darn henhouses.
    But itís not the end of the world! A white older dude told us so.

    He is right- nothing will end for white men. Itís the minorities who lose their voices here, and many will for decades, but no reason to get bent out of shape

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    Re: SCOTUS 14: Confirming a Rabid Partisan to Own the Libs

    Lets take a more dispassionate look at gerrymandering now that the Feds are going to have a hands off approach (aside from blatant racism).

    Gooper gerrymanders: MI,WI,OH,TX,GA,NC

    Dem gerrymanders: IL, MD

    Michigan (citizens initiative) and North Carolina (Dems now control state supreme court) should take care of themselves. Yes I expect the GOP to try to hang on like grim death, but in both places the state courts aren't friendly to their position.

    Ohio - Passed some half measure to head off a citizens initiative. Basically it shortens the amount of time the new lines are in place if not a bipartisan agreement to 4 years. Total GOP control of Gov, legislature, courts.

    WI, TX, GA - not good. Dems p issed away chance at winning state supreme court this year in Wisconsin. Dispute between legislature and Gov goes to them (basically a reverse of Pennsylvania). Moderate chance at winning state House in Texas next year but again presumably dispute would go to GOP state supreme court. Same with Georgia.

    Potential Dem gerrymanders. On the bright side if you like fighting fire with fire, Dems now have total control of New York and after courts redrew racial gerrymander in state house are in a good spot for the same trifecta in Virginia. If the SCOTUS has now ruled that anything goes, lots of opportunity in these two states.

    So you could have a situation after 2020 where the GOP has gerrymandered TX, OH, GA and WI while Dems have done the same to NY, IL, VA and MD. That's a lot better than where we were after the last round of redistricting.
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