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Thread: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    I agree. The obvious answer is to start paying more, therefore being more selective in the long run. Otherwise we have a shortage (like we do now) and any warm body will do.
    Pay more? A 2 year police officer in South Bend who has received no promotions other than time-in-grade will make at least $60,000 a year. That doesn't include overtime, of which many scoop up in 5 figures, or 2nd and 3rd shift differential pay, which is $2500-$3500. On top of that they can retire at 53 with a lifetime pension that pays them 74% of the average of their 5 last years, usually their highest paid ones. The median hourly wage in Indiana in 2018 (according the Bureau of Labor Statistics) was $17.18. That means a cop who has managed to do nothing more than work for 2 years without getting fired makes at least 2/3rds more than the average worker in Indiana. Of all the places I've lived the overall cost of living was lowest in South Bend. How much more should they make than the average worker? Twice? 3 times? The fact is, the truly good cops, just like the best public school teachers, the best nurses and the best firefighters out there NEVER make as much as they probably EARN. But the notion cops are "underpaid", just like the notion they have the most dangerous job in the world, is false.

    My job requires a fair amount of integrity and people have to trust me. Nobody needs to pay me more because of that.

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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
    Pay more? A 2 year police officer in South Bend who has received no promotions other than time-in-grade will make at least $60,000 a year. That doesn't include overtime, of which many scoop up in 5 figures, or 2nd and 3rd shift differential pay, which is $2500-$3500. On top of that they can retire at 53 with a lifetime pension that pays them 74% of the average of their 5 last years, usually their highest paid ones. The median hourly wage in Indiana in 2018 (according the Bureau of Labor Statistics) was $17.18. That means a cop who has managed to do nothing more than work for 2 years without getting fired makes at least 2/3rds more than the average worker in Indiana. Of all the places I've lived the overall cost of living was lowest in South Bend. How much more should they make than the average worker? Twice? 3 times? The fact is, the truly good cops, just like the best public school teachers, the best nurses and the best firefighters out there NEVER make as much as they probably EARN. But the notion cops are "underpaid", just like the notion they have the most dangerous job in the world, is false.

    My job requires a fair amount of integrity and people have to trust me. Nobody needs to pay me more because of that.
    I make almost that much in regular salary as a warehouse worker, non-management. And my life is pretty safe. Just sayin'.
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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Your job is probably more risky than the average officerís.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    I make almost that much in regular salary as a warehouse worker, non-management. And my life is pretty safe. Just sayin'.
    You're more likely to get run over by a forklift in a warehouse than a cop is to die on the job. Just saying.

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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    You're more likely to get run over by a forklift in a warehouse than a cop is to die on the job. Just saying.
    How about just getting injured on the job? Or, you know, be in a possibly dangerous situation (like writing out a ticket on the highway)? It doesn't have to be death or nothing. My odds are an officer's job is much more dangerous.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    How about just getting injured on the job? Or, you know, be in a possibly dangerous situation (like writing out a ticket on the highway)? It doesn't have to be death or nothing. My odds are an officer's job is much more dangerous.
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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by SonofSouthie View Post
    I've read that police academies will spend 3 weeks on firearms and self defense training and barely 8 hours on de-escalation/conflict management.
    I'm sure every state or department may be different, but I've heard otherwise regarding education and training.

    I good friend of mine from college actually taught law enforcement, first at a school in North Dakota and later in Minnesota. He said that most of it is actually legal training/book work, learning things like basic constitutional law, warrant requirements, a lot of work learning statutes and the elements of crimes, etc...

    Once the candidates get past that, and even after they initially get hired for a job, the bulk of their training is "situational." They'll put the candidate through hundreds of different variations of things like traffic stops, searching a home, interacting with a large crowd. The "movie" version of training with guys running through obstacle course with bad guys popping up in windows to get shot is largely a myth. In part it's due to the fact that shooting is really, really expensive. One local sheriff's department was forced to limit deputies to one box of shells per year for firearms practice. That's almost Barney Fife level.

    But I suspect there is not nearly enough training on the psychology of interacting with the public.
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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    How about just getting injured on the job? Or, you know, be in a possibly dangerous situation (like writing out a ticket on the highway)? It doesn't have to be death or nothing. My odds are an officer's job is much more dangerous.
    You might want to research that...the rate of injury isnt that high and ranks behind quite a few jobs.
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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    You might want to research that...the rate of injury isnt that high and ranks behind quite a few jobs.
    They simply tend to be high profile because they usually involve illegal acts - people not driving safely near emergency vehicles on the highway, or being shot.
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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    I make almost that much in regular salary as a warehouse worker, non-management. And my life is pretty safe. Just sayin'.
    Can you retire at 53 and make 74% of your best year's pay for the next 40 years? Are your insurance and other benefits anywhere near as good? And that's a non management job as well. A SBPD lieutenant makes $89,000 a year or more (and is also overtime eligible). And as others have noted, your job is likely just as dangerous as a cops, if not more so. Police work has not been among the 10 most dangerous jobs in America for as long as I have been a worker advocate. The job is half as dangerous as it was 40 years ago. And in many years the the single most common reason for on the job deaths for cops is traffic accidents. Not high speed pursuits where they are chasing alleged criminals, just run of the mill accidents.
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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Oh well.

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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
    Can you retire at 53 and make 74% of your best year's pay for the next 40 years? Are your insurance and other benefits anywhere near as good? And that's a non management job as well. A SBPD lieutenant makes $89,000 a year or more (and is also overtime eligible). And as others have noted, your job is likely just as dangerous as a cops, if not more so. Police work has not been among the 10 most dangerous jobs in America for as long as I have been a worker advocate. The job is half as dangerous as it was 40 years ago. And in many years the the single most common reason for on the job deaths for cops is traffic accidents. Not high speed pursuits where they are chasing alleged criminals, just run of the mill accidents.
    I work semi-alone (one co-worker shares half a shift). My biggest safety concerns are falling off my machine when elevated (and I wear a harness, per OSHA), or pulling a muscle. That's it. I'll put my money on my job being safer than a cop's, by a country mile.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Powered industrial vehicles have one of the highest incident rates at my company. Itís not even close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    I work semi-alone (one co-worker shares half a shift). My biggest safety concerns are falling off my machine when elevated (and I wear a harness, per OSHA), or pulling a muscle. That's it. I'll put my money on my job being safer than a cop's, by a country mile.
    You're both confusing potential danger with actual danger, and overestimating the potential danger.

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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    But mah narrative!

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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Huh. My line of work isn't even top 25, and police officers is 18th.

    Article from Jan of this year:
    https://www.ajc.com/news/world/these...JG6m0P4SCrXuN/
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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Perhaps look at the Bureau of Labor/OSHAís website with the real data and not some filtered story with cherrypicked data moderated to drive clicks. The incidence rate for warehousing is 0.1 higher overall than local law enforcement. Or rather it was for 2014 or 2015. Didnít see it for more recent years but didnít really care to look. They flip flopped on two sub areas of whether the person lost time or was permanently disabled.

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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Perhaps look at the Bureau of Labor/OSHAís website with the real data and not some filtered story with cherrypicked data moderated to drive clicks. The incidence rate for warehousing is 0.1 higher overall than local law enforcement. Or rather it was for 2014 or 2015. Didnít see it for more recent years but didnít really care to look. They flip flopped on two sub areas of whether the person lost time or was permanently disabled.
    That is a key point. There's accident/no lost time, lost time, and permanently disabled. This is obviously anecdotal: we have 5 buildings in the category my building belongs in. There's been 1 lost time accident in those buildings in the last 6ish years, zero incidents of permanently disabled, since I started working there 18 years ago, and half a dozen non-lost-time accidents in the last 5ish years.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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    Re: Cops 6: The More You Pay, The Faster We'll Come!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    Huh. My line of work isn't even top 25, and police officers is 18th.

    Article from Jan of this year:
    https://www.ajc.com/news/world/these...JG6m0P4SCrXuN/
    I can search many police departments, both large and small, and find years without an on-duty death or serious injury. Warehousing work and driving forklifts and other such equipment can be and is a dangerous job. Even for places that are safety conscious and try to follow good practice, stuff happens. Glad it hasn't happened recently where you work to you or a co-worker, but I know what I'm talking about. I've been doing the work I do in one fashion or another for 30+ years.

    I'm not sure where you live, but in Minneapolis, police RECRUITS make $62,900, and an officer with just 20 months on the job is paid $69,300. No promotions, just a regular patrol officer who hasn't gotten fired. After 6 years an officer makes $81,000 and a sergeant will make at least $86,600 and $91,900 after 20 months as a sergeant. And don't forget the overtime. Patrol officers make so much overtime it strains budgets in some cities. And in most, sergeants and other higher ranked officers are eligible for OT. And I would bet my rent the time off and insurance benefits for a Minneapolis cop are better than yours and I know their retirement benefit is better.

    Two Minneapolis police officers have dies on the job in this century. While that is 2 too many, my guess is in the last 18+ years two people doing work in similar places to yours have died somewhere in Minneapolis.

    When people reflexively go to the narrative that cops are underpaid or their job is super dangerous it clouds the real issues. Yes, there is danger associated with the job of a police officer. No, they are not going to become wealthy spending 30 years working as a cop. But if all someone like you looks at is they are underpaid and face danger unlike anyone else, you will never be as troubled as you should be of the rampant problems in police departments in every state in the country. And at the end of the day, they CHOOSE this job. If it was so bad, why isn't there more turnover? Ever see the turnover in a nursing home? At most it is out of control. In Ohio it approaches 100% in the nursing care end of it. No, people don't generally intend to injure a nurse's aid or a nurse, but the number of debilitating injuries would probably startle you, and in many places some don't make a living wage with even 5 or 10 years on the job. And nursing homes are of the utmost importance in any community.

    The most ironic thing when it comes to safety and pay of the police? If we rooted out the thugs, racists, and criminals, all the money cities spent paying out lawsuit settlements could go to wages instead and since people would trust and respect the cops more their jobs would be safer. And since the only way that happens is for the cops themselves begin cleaning up their act, I'm never going to have much sympathy for the ones who cry about danger or pay.

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