POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

[Rover]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

No. I don't. Sorry. They're a complete waste of time.

Gotta agree here. We all know what drives Trump voters, and its not economic anxiety which some of us may have thought a couple of years ago. Its racial anxiety. One of the most pro-Trump communities in the country is The Villages in Florida which doesn't allow poor people in it. Its all well off retirees who want to go back to their own personal Mayberry. Complete with as few brown or black faces as possible. News media outlets like the Times always try to throw someone under 55 in there, but inevitably the profile on a Chump voter is a 60-70 something year old white person concerned about non-whites taking over in some form or fashion. Its not any more complicated than that.

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

So you don't think that a story that explores why people continue to support Trump despite things like the separation of families, the indictment of people from his campaign, etc..., is a worthwhile story to write? I suppose putting a human face to people that everyone here prefers to demonize kind of sucks, but I don't know that its a story that is not worth exploring.

Go for it. Every time someone tries, we get nowhere. What's the point?

People like that only understand their own method- which is basically shame and BS. If they can't handle it, well, tough.

The only success I've ever seen is when people SEE the results of their BS. Either by them spending time in jail or seeing the lack of humanity first hand. If neither of those work, well... they can sit in prison the rest of their lives.

[rufus]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

This was from Brent in the old thread

Yeah, you can. You report the facts of the issue, and yes, the dear reader decides. Journalists should not inject their own opinion.

Jesus Christ, I'm not saying reporters should inject their own opinion. But when Donald Trump says crime is at an alltime high in Germany because of immigration, and Democrats say, no it's not, he's lying, It's up to the reporter to gather the evidence to show who's argument is closer to the truth.

He can't just write, "Trump says this, Democrats say that, you decide who to believe". Since we have a ream of statistical data gathered over decades, we can see that the crime rate in Germany is not at an alltime high, but is in fact, at its lowest point since 1992. That has to be reported. And is the reporter wants to then go on and say Trump is lying about crime in Germany, fair enough, because he is. If the herpaderps still continue to not believe it, call it "fake news", so be it. But the facts are there for everyone to see and decide. Pointing out that a guy, or a side, is lying is not "injecting the reporter's own views" It's reporting a simple truth.

Without facts being reported, it's just "he said, she said". No one can make a knowledgeable decision on which side is right, without the actual facts, the evidence, being included. And too often these days, it's not. And our media coverage has devolved to "Republicans say this, Democrats say this, you make up your mind who's right". And Democrats will say Democrats are right, and Republicans will say Republicans are right. And here we are, right back where we started. All in the name of your precious "both sides" neutrality.

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

You missed the point - as usual. Let me simplify it.

Unless society is shocked, it will do nothing.
Armenia - nothing. Granted it was 100 years ago.
Germany in WW2. Eventually, but 6 million would say too late.
Rawanda - hand wringing. Nothing

The West DID get aroused over the former Yugoslavia and people were tried. Few and far between.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Joe, the question was asked as to why you're not expressing concern or outrage over the situation. Yet you just defer to society at large. Does that mean you'll only take a stand if a critical mass of the populace has already taken a stand? I'm confused by your reply here. Sincerely, not gotcha-confused.

[rufus]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Again from Brent

This goes back to Handy's post, many many pages ago, which started all this. Both sides need to be told. And rufus' most recent post goes against that thought. This is the discussion, not about any particular issue at this time, but the approach to issues overall. Rufus just said only one side needs to be reported, if the other side is deemed ridiculous, lying, etc.

Not what I'm saying. You lie, to make your point.

What I'm saying is if one side is ridiculous, then the news can say one ide is ridiculous, and preset the evidence and facts as to why they're ridiculous. Not treat their argument as equally valid, as being just as legitimate. Because everything in this world we know shows their argument is ridiculous.


And if they're lying, say they're lying. Like you.

[rufus]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Trump says he's doing it because that's the only way to get an immigration deal done.

That's one, of the several revolving and changing reasons for why they're doing it.

Now, is it right, morally right, that he holds children for ransom to get his favored legislation passed?

What next, does he hold agun to a kid's head in the Oval office and say "if the Democrats don't give me my Wall money, I'm gonna shoot this kid'?

Cause it's literally the same dam thing.

[rufus]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Back in 1800, did you really need to hear an argument AGAINST slavery?

Apparently we did. We fought a war over that, in case you've forgotten.

[joecct]

So where is YOUR outrage? I keep asking that, and you reply with some BS.

Much of society is shocked, and many wonder why people like you are not.

Proving once again it is virtually impossible to civilly argue about anything with the left. Too many make and take everything personally.

I think Bob had the right idea when he vacated the field.

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

That's one, of the several revolving and changing reasons for why they're doing it.

Now, is it right, morally right, that he holds children for ransom to get his favored legislation passed?

What next, does he hold agun to a kid's head in the Oval office and say "if the Democrats don't give me my Wall money, I'm gonna shoot this kid'?

Cause it's literally the same dam thing.

When the White House admitted (bragged) they were doing this to create a deterrent, my thought was, why don't torture the captured children on live TV and beam it to Central American countries? Why would that not be acceptable to the kind of "man" who would support this policy?

Malevolent cowards have taken over our government, installed there by Russia and a raft of American malevolent cowards. A third of this country are shameful, fearful halfwits.

[rufus]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

According to some here, Trump's reason is so ridiculous (and I agree it's ridiculous), it doesn't need reporting. Yes, it does. One must report why he is doing what he is doing. Why he thinks this is a reasonable action (which it isn't, according to the vast majority of us).

No. Report it all you like. But also report as to why its so ridiculous.

Don't treat the "we need to hold this kids prisoner so I can get my favored legislation passed, or to discourage those people from coming here", as having the exact same validity, as being just as legitimate an argument, as those who say"Damm, we're the United States of America, holding children in internment camps is just morally wrong"


Cause they don't have the same standing. You keep arguing that they must be reported on as if they do.

[GrinCDXX]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Proving once again it is virtually impossible to civilly argue about anything with the left. Too many make and take everything personally.

I think Bob had the right idea when he vacated the field.

The right destroyed civility in 2016. (or least what was left of it)

[rufus]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

OF COURSE THEY ARE IN TURMOIL. IT'S A GIVEN. IT'S OBVIOUS.

Not according to the Right, they aren't. Summer camps, three squares a day, warm and cozy.

So apparently, for some folks its not obvious, it's not a given. So stuff like the crying kids needs to be shown. To shock those who might otherwise be falling for that false equivalency into some form of recognizing what these camps actually are.

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

The right destroyed civility in 2016.

1994 if you're scoring at home.

Or even if you're alone.

[Slap Shot]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Proving once again it is virtually impossible to civilly argue about anything with the left. Too many make and take everything personally.

I think Bob had the right idea when he vacated the field.

What's impossible is getting a straight answer out of you. He didn't attack you in the least - he's directly asking why you're not speaking out against this policy.

Back in 1800, did you really need to hear an argument AGAINST slavery?

Was there not a war roughly six decades later over just that?

[rufus]

Re: POTUS: 45.37: The Earth is Flat and the Babies Are Crying

Dear @nytimes: Is the Gina Anders who you feature in your story as not having "a stitch of MAGA gear" the same one who is a BOARD MEMBER of the ultraconservative WVLPAC? That PAC seeks to defend Confederate statues & nullify the ACA.

You may want to correct your misleading story https://t.co/gn6TCY9ebn

— Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) June 24, 2018

Further proof the NYTimes sucks. Their constant need to print these "A Bio of A Trump Voter" stories ranks up there with CNN stories about how [insert speech here] is when Trump became Presidential.

Bio of the "average Trump voter"

who always seem to turn out to be a high-ranking official in the state or local GOP, or active in Conservative GOP pacs, or some other such affiliation.


Strange that.