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NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

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  • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

    So I spent a lot of time the last 2 weeks watching the NCAA lacrosse tournament ( mens and women's). I am puzzled as to why the women's semifinals was on ESPN3 and all week there were a million softball games.....including non-elimination games.) The coverage of sports seems extremely unequal.....even within womens coverage.

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    • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

      Originally posted by MAHOCKEY FAN View Post
      So I spent a lot of time the last 2 weeks watching the NCAA lacrosse tournament ( mens and women's). I am puzzled as to why the women's semifinals was on ESPN3 and all week there were a million softball games.....including non-elimination games.) The coverage of sports seems extremely unequal.....even within womens coverage.
      There's undoubtedly multiple reasons ESPN covers softball more heavily than lacrosse, but here's the big one: lacrosse is basically nonexistent in the SEC. There are no SEC schools with varsity men's lacrosse teams, and only two, Florida and Vanderbilt, with women's teams. Meanwhile, there are not only 13 SEC schools with softball teams, but all 13 of them made the NCAA tournament.

      You have to keep in mind how closely joined ESPN and the SEC are. Unlike the Big 10 Network or the Pac 12 Network, the SEC Network is not owned by the conference; it's really ESPN 4 Covering the SEC. Scroll down ESPN's college sports page during baseball/softball season, and you'll find story after story about SEC teams, with an occasional piece about someone else mixed in. There are many more SEC games shown, even on the official ESPN networks, than there are of anyone else. And so, naturally, come NCAA tournament time, they're going to show a lot more of a tournament that features a bunch of SEC teams than one that doesn't. It's where their investment, and their payout, is.

      Convince the SEC to get into lacrosse in a big way, and you will magically find that ESPN shows more of the tournament.

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      • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

        Very interesting ....did not know that. Thanks for a knowledge response.

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        • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

          Originally posted by Still Eeyore View Post
          I suspect that you're wrong, but neither of us has any data on that, and the NBA does. But you also don't have the mechanism they're pursuing correct. The goal was not to take existing fans of women's basketball and, by starting the WNBA, convert them into fans of the NBA.

          The concept was to appeal to women, and especially girls, who didn't have any attachment to basketball at all. By starting a women's league, they would spread the idea that basketball is something that women care about. That basketball is something that women play. And that it's something that they will pay to follow. It also goes the other way, showing women that the NBA is interested in them, in ways that paying a bunch of men millions of dollars to play basketball doesn't. If this works, you will create a new group of fans that follow both the WNBA and the NBA, and even lots of them who never follow the WNBA at all, but would never have become fans of the NBA without feeling included.

          I have no idea how well this works, and how much revenue this generates for the NBA annually. I'm certain that the value is greater than zero, and almost equally certain that it's less than $100 million. (For reference, the NBA generated about $7.4 billion in revenue last season, so my guess is that the WNBA is responsible for something between 0% and 1.35% of the NBA's revenue.) The NBA, though, does have estimates of how well this works. Having taken business school classes in which the statistical methodology of marketing was discussed, I'm skeptical that their estimates are all that solid, but I'd still be interested to see them.
          I’m more than happy to learn that the NBA has a more nuanced agenda than mine!

          Do you suppose the NHL brass is equally in the dark about how much revenue the WNBA generates, and does it matter? They have to move off dead center before losing The Big Mo that this current crop of skaters has generated. Not every Olympics is going to be magic.

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          • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

            Originally posted by MAHOCKEY FAN View Post
            So I spent a lot of time the last 2 weeks watching the NCAA lacrosse tournament ( mens and women's). I am puzzled as to why the women's semifinals was on ESPN3 and all week there were a million softball games.....including non-elimination games.) The coverage of sports seems extremely unequal.....even within womens coverage.
            as fast as it is gaining popularity it is nowhere near as popular as softball

            keep in mind even the lowest watched World Series game each year gets well over twice as much viewership as Monday's Stanley Cup game one which also had the advantage of being on Memorial Day evening, the bachlorette nearly did as well Monday, and usually does better

            it would be interested to know what the split of women hockey players watched the SC game one vs. the Bachlorette

            when the NFL had their draft it was broadcast live on ABC for what? three days? Then a week later they spent another day on ABC discussing how each of the teams fared and rated each teams likely success for the coming season

            hockey might be the #4 pro sport, but it is a very distant #4, it is kinda like Fox was back in the day before The Simpsons, 90210, and Married With Children propelled them up to the big leagues and eventually be #1. except that hockey has been trying to join the big boys for 50 years and still hasn't figured it out

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            • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

              Latest development

              NWHL plows forward with plans for next season amid player boycott
              http://www.startribune.com/nwhl-plow...ott/510628082/
              Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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              • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

                It’s not much of a gamble for the Canadian national team members to boycott, nor for that matter the US players since even if they don’t play in the NWHL they will still participate with their national team. The ones who are really taking a gamble are the ones who are not members of the national teams, if they don’t play in the NWHL they got nuthin’. Worse, they are losing out on an opportunity to show that they deserve consideration for their national team. It is obvious a few players in the NWHL should get a shot with their national team based on their NWHL play last year.

                I suspect we’ll see at minimum all of the non-national team members of the Whitecaps play this year, if not eventually the Olympic players as well. Last year was too good of an “inaugural” season for them. (Quotations since they have a history no other women’s “pro” team can come close to matching) To miss a follow up season would be a blunder, if anything, if there is a facility available in the two to three thousand range they should roll the dice and play there. Strike while the iron is hot and see if the market is there to support them. Opportunity seldom knocks twice.

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                • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

                  The other consideration is what impact, if any, would sitting out an entire season of competitive hockey have on a player's game? Sure, they would continue to skate on their own and play pick up games, but would that be enough, particularly for the older players whose skill level might have already peaked?
                  Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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                  • Originally posted by D2D View Post
                    The other consideration is what impact, if any, would sitting out an entire season of competitive hockey have on a player's game? Sure, they would continue to skate on their own and play pick up games, but would that be enough, particularly for the older players whose skill level might have already peaked?
                    Most likely,The players would do what they did before nwhl, the Whitecaps will play exhibitions against all the wcha teams as before,.

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                    • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

                      Originally posted by mnwis View Post
                      Most likely,The players would do what they did before nwhl, the Whitecaps will play exhibitions against all the wcha teams as before.
                      The Whitecaps are on the Gopher's preliminary schedule for a September 22nd exhibition, but how many national-level players will the Whitecaps have on their roster? As of now Coyne-Schofield, Brandt and Stecklein are boycotting the league, so unless something happens that would change their minds they (and others) could very well not be playing organized hockey in the upcoming season. Right now everything is pretty much up in the air, so things could - any probably will - see drastic change.
                      Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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                      • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

                        Like usual, you guys are missing the obvious, so I’ll have to state it even so you morons see it:
                        The US players said when they struck before that they were doing it for the 10 & 12 year old girls, that was the most effective persuasion statement (some would say conformance) since politicians said “you are either with us or against us” before the Iraq war. To not go along with it meant you were against 10 year old girls, and who would want that hanging over your head? Yet, when it was all over the only ones that benefited were the National team members. Deja Vu, here are we are again. Once again they are using peer pressure, who stands to gain, who stands to lose?
                        Those that were in the Canadian league can only win, regardless of what happens, right now they have nothing. The US Olympic players (national team members really) are next in line to win the most, they will still participate in hockey even if they don’t play in the NWHL. And both those two groups will be the most likely to get the big money if the NHL steps in, with the 1st choice of where they want to play.

                        The ones that lose the most are the ones that aren’t on a national team, and has been proven, they are not necessarily of lesser talent. If the NHL steps in they are the ones most likely to get the second class treatment (and second class wages) and get stuck having to either accept a new team in a city they don’t really want to go or stay where they are and look for an alternative to pro hockey if they want to keep playing.

                        And the 10-12 year old girls? I wouldn’t hold my breathe for anything to change there (take a look at the committee members formed as a result of the Olympic boycott, the lack of any present national team members, and the results).

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                        • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

                          Originally posted by pokechecker View Post
                          Like usual, you guys are missing the obvious, so I’ll have to state it even so you morons see it:
                          I've always considered myself more of a nincompoop, but thank you.

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                          • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

                            Originally posted by pokechecker View Post
                            Like usual, you guys are missing the obvious, so I’ll have to state it even so you morons see it:
                            The US players said when they struck before that they were doing it for the 10 & 12 year old girls, that was the most effective persuasion statement (some would say conformance) since politicians said “you are either with us or against us” before the Iraq war. To not go along with it meant you were against 10 year old girls, and who would want that hanging over your head? Yet, when it was all over the only ones that benefited were the National team members. Deja Vu, here are we are again. Once again they are using peer pressure, who stands to gain, who stands to lose?
                            Those that were in the Canadian league can only win, regardless of what happens, right now they have nothing. The US Olympic players (national team members really) are next in line to win the most, they will still participate in hockey even if they don’t play in the NWHL. And both those two groups will be the most likely to get the big money if the NHL steps in, with the 1st choice of where they want to play.

                            The ones that lose the most are the ones that aren’t on a national team, and has been proven, they are not necessarily of lesser talent. If the NHL steps in they are the ones most likely to get the second class treatment (and second class wages) and get stuck having to either accept a new team in a city they don’t really want to go or stay where they are and look for an alternative to pro hockey if they want to keep playing.

                            And the 10-12 year old girls? I wouldn’t hold my breathe for anything to change there (take a look at the committee members formed as a result of the Olympic boycott, the lack of any present national team members, and the results).
                            There is a lot more going on behind the scenes every week that the public is not privy to. The players who have chosen not to play in North America this year will be afforded other opportunities in 2019-20. As far as this benefitting the Olympians almost exclusively - yes. Any future league supported by the NHL would probably start with 4-6 teams; many current NWHL and former CWHL players would be without a team. Probably a kindness for most of the women that will be left out, since they made around $2,500 for playing last season. I can't imagine any new league is all of a sudden going to be able to justify $50,000+ salaries - professional soccer players make as much as $35,000. The national team athletes may be able to parlay a reasonable salary, national team stipends, operating summer camps, and olympic year compensation into an average liveable wage.

                            The bigger picture for the movement seems to be establishing a viable league that can provide a minimum set of benefits (wage, insurance coverage, access to professional training, etc.), and build up to salary compensation that is generous enough to live comfortably on. Regardless of the outcome, it will be a long process that this generation of hockey players will not likely see the full benefits of - so yes for 10-12 year olds.

                            Either way it is a difficult decision and a sacrifice for these young women to put the careers and lives on hold for such a paultry salary. The current pay structure does not support a professional league. When you have to hold down a "real" full time job, to play hockey a few hours a week, that is not what established professional sports look like (basketball, golf, tennis).


                            The Whitecaps are on the Gopher's preliminary schedule for a September 22nd exhibition, but how many national-level players will the Whitecaps have on their roster? As of now Coyne-Schofield, Brandt and Stecklein are boycotting the league, so unless something happens that would change their minds they (and others) could very well not be playing organized hockey in the upcoming season. Right now everything is pretty much up in the air, so things could - any probably will - see drastic change.
                            I don't think any of the national team members will be part of the Whitecaps this season (or anyone else who has joined the "for the game" movement)
                            A few things could change that -
                            The NWHL folds, and the Whitecaps become independent again (the NWHL never finalized the purchase of the Whitecaps, so technically Jack Brodt still retains control)
                            The Whitecaps leave the NWHL
                            The NWHL strike a deal with the players or NHL

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                            • Originally posted by arenalife View Post
                              Either way it is a difficult decision and a sacrifice for these young women to put the careers and lives on hold for such a paultry salary. The current pay structure does not support a professional league. When you have to hold down a "real" full time job, to play hockey a few hours a week, that is not what established professional sports look like (basketball, golf, tennis)
                              Interesting you don’t mention hockey, football or baseball as established professional sports. All three which have older established professional leagues than basketball (and golf and tennis are individual sports, not team sports). In the case of baseball many players usually had to have off-season jobs to make a living before WWII. From the end of WWII until the first CBA in 1965 the minimum salary was $6,000 (a period of 20 years). With the advent of the CBA that was raised to $10,000, with the MLB average $19,000. The NL started in 1876, so it took a long time before most baseball players could live off just their baseball salaries.

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                              • Re: NWHL Announcement Event On Tuesday In Saint Paul

                                Originally posted by arenalife View Post
                                There is a lot more going on behind the scenes every week that the public is not privy to. The players who have chosen not to play in North America this year will be afforded other opportunities in 2019-20. As far as this benefitting the Olympians almost exclusively - yes. Any future league supported by the NHL would probably start with 4-6 teams; many current NWHL and former CWHL players would be without a team. Probably a kindness for most of the women that will be left out, since they made around $2,500 for playing last season. I can't imagine any new league is all of a sudden going to be able to justify $50,000+ salaries - professional soccer players make as much as $35,000. The national team athletes may be able to parlay a reasonable salary, national team stipends, operating summer camps, and olympic year compensation into an average liveable wage.

                                The bigger picture for the movement seems to be establishing a viable league that can provide a minimum set of benefits (wage, insurance coverage, access to professional training, etc.), and build up to salary compensation that is generous enough to live comfortably on. Regardless of the outcome, it will be a long process that this generation of hockey players will not likely see the full benefits of - so yes for 10-12 year olds.

                                Either way it is a difficult decision and a sacrifice for these young women to put the careers and lives on hold for such a paultry salary. The current pay structure does not support a professional league. When you have to hold down a "real" full time job, to play hockey a few hours a week, that is not what established professional sports look like (basketball, golf, tennis).



                                I don't think any of the national team members will be part of the Whitecaps this season (or anyone else who has joined the "for the game" movement)
                                A few things could change that -
                                The NWHL folds, and the Whitecaps become independent again (the NWHL never finalized the purchase of the Whitecaps, so technically Jack Brodt still retains control)
                                The Whitecaps leave the NWHL
                                The NWHL strike a deal with the players or NHL
                                Don’t you have that backwards? Wouldn’t it be kind to the national team members for the NHL to say: “no thanks, find somebody else to support you, get a real job”?
                                The fortunate, and some would say smart ones, are the ones that didn’t put their career on hold. Imagine that you completed your college eligibility in the last couple of years since the NWHL started. You found a job in one of those cities and you began playing in the league. With the way the economy has been going the ones that pursued a worthwhile degree in college are making $80K give or take $30K. If they are getting paid 2-3K to play hockey the league is picking up the tab for their “hobby”. I doubt any of them are looking at a wage from “pro” hockey to support them, nor do they need it. And many of them are just as talented hockey players as the national team members.

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