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  • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

    Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
    If they weren't going to change their mind, "no matter what" who gives an eff what they think?

    The people Hillary missed out on were those on the fence that went Trump and those that stayed home that normally would have voted for her. And yet she still received 3 million more votes.

    People ascribe way, way too much nuance to this election loss. It's as simple as this - a good % of Bernies snubbed their nose and stayed home and those on the fence were not energized nor excited by anything Hillary did/said during the campaign. Only a team of complete imbeciles would miss out on the obvious and lose to Trump in 2020.
    I really believe that this is the same story the last election. Guess what happened? In 2020, now we see the results, so HOPEFULLY it'll be different. The result was a bit less unknown in 2016.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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    • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

      Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
      I really believe that this is the same story the last election. Guess what happened? In 2020, now we see the results, so HOPEFULLY it'll be different. The result was a bit less unknown in 2016.
      Her campaign was ineptly run and I said only a repeat of that will lead to a loss in 2020. It's not understanding the undersirables that's critical.

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      • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

        Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
        Her campaign was ineptly run and I said only a repeat of that will lead to a loss in 2020. It's not understanding the undersirables that's critical.
        The "undesirables" which is Pro Trump. NOT Anti Hillary. The fence sitters (at best). Get THAT audience, one gets the win that one wants.
        Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
        Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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        • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

          Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
          There's a reason the Feel The Bern caught some wind. Not saying that was the answer; that was a response to the Hillary crowd. And it cost hardcore.
          This sentiment was overplayed. More Hillary voters went another direction in 2008 than Bernie voters in 2016. The bigger issue was hardcore Obama voters who stayed home in 2016. The biggest issue may have been voter suppression.

          We need two things to happen for the election to go a responsible way in 2018, and that is progressive voters need to get off their fvcking aszes and some voters to take seriously the likelihood there will be an attempt to suppress the votes depending on where you live.

          I think much like the conversation black parents are finding themselves horrified but forced to have with their kids about how to act when they are inevitably stopped for DWB, they are going to have to also teach their kids about how some local governments are going to find ways to make it extremely difficult and time consuming to vote, so vote by mail, vote early, and if need be, be prepared to spend hours on election day voting.

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          • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

            I think the voter suppression is overrated. The LAZINESS of the voter (and guilty as charged*) to get out and vote is the bigger issue.

            *I didn't vote because I didn't like either main party candidate, and this year, the 3rd party had zero chance of winning. Yes, I know about future funding, etc, and I have voted 3rd party in the past, so save it.
            Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
            Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

            Comment


            • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

              Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
              I think the voter suppression is overrated. The LAZINESS of the voter (and guilty as charged*) to get out and vote is the bigger issue.
              God Brent, I really try to give you the benefit of the doubt but you make it difficult. Many reliably sourced investigations and subsequent reporting have shown there were far more votes suppressed in Wisconsin in 2016 than was trumps margin of victory. Some estimates put it as high as 200,000 votes. I suppose if you are incredibly naive enough to believe that those votes were split evenly among precincts in poor black areas of some of the cities of Wisconsin and hundreds upon hundreds of white rural precincts than maybe that suppression had an equal effect on both trump and Clinton. And there were similar shenanigans in both Florida and Ohio in 2000. Any suppression in Florida would have cost Gore since he officially lost by just a few hundred votes, and Ohio remains so suspect to this day there is no way in hell I will EVER vote in any way other than by mail with a paper ballot that has to be optically scanned.

              Yes lazy voters need to get out and vote but unlike voter fraud, voter suppression is a real thing, and it costs real votes.

              *eta* I've lived my entire life in predominantly (or sometimes overwhelmingly) white precincts and have never had an issue with wait times or machine breakdowns. Why does that always seem to happen in poor black areas? When the news finds me some rich white suburb with lines of voters 2 blocks long because of "broken machines" then I might think it isn't intentional on the east side of Cleveland.
              Last edited by WeAreNDHockey; 05-06-2018, 10:32 PM.

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              • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

                Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
                God Brent, I really try to give you the benefit of the doubt but you make it difficult. Many reliably sourced investigations and subsequent reporting have shown there were far more votes suppressed in Wisconsin in 2016 than was trumps margin of victory. Some estimates put it as high as 200,000 votes. I suppose if you are incredibly naive enough to believe that those votes were split evenly among precincts in poor black areas of some of the cities of Wisconsin and hundreds upon hundreds of white rural precincts than maybe that suppression had an equal effect on both trump and Clinton. And there were similar shenanigans in both Florida and Ohio in 2000. Any suppression in Florida would have cost Gore since he officially lost by just a few hundred votes, and Ohio remains so suspect to this day there is no way in hell I will EVER vote in any way other than by mail with a paper ballot that has to be optically scanned.

                Yes lazy voters need to get out and vote but unlike voter fraud, voter suppression is a real thing, and it costs real votes.
                Then why are certain folks against Voter IDs? Apparently Voter IDs suppress votes.

                I will give in to gerrymandering, that is obvious. But frankly, IMO, need to be a citizen (and have proof) to vote.
                Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                Comment


                • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

                  Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                  Then why are certain folks against Voter IDs? Apparently Voter IDs suppress votes.

                  I will give in to gerrymandering, that is obvious. But frankly, IMO, need to be a citizen (and have proof) to vote.
                  Gerrymandering in and of itself doesn't suppress votes as I am speaking of, it just makes your vote meaningless. My votes for state and federal representatives have been gerrymandered into uselessness, but I still cast them.

                  Voter ID laws are also not the only way they are suppressing votes Brent. The oldest machines end up in the poorest and busiest precincts, leading to breakdowns. Precincts being closed and not enough locations in places where people rely on public transportation to get around. A refusal to extend voting times to 24 hours since so many poor people work 2 jobs and feel compelled to work for fear of getting fired if they miss work time whereas someone like me could sneak off and vote and my employer wouldn't say a word to me.

                  Those are just the "subtle" ways we suppress votes that have been empirically demonstrated from one corner of the country to another. I'd provide some of the anecdotal evidence I am aware of and have learned and read about, but you seem to find a way to discount just about everything anyway unless it happened to you.

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                  • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

                    Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
                    Gerrymandering in and of itself doesn't suppress votes as I am speaking of, it just makes your vote meaningless. My votes for state and federal representatives have been gerrymandered into uselessness, but I still cast them.

                    Voter ID laws are also not the only way they are suppressing votes Brent. The oldest machines end up in the poorest and busiest precincts, leading to breakdowns. Precincts being closed and not enough locations in places where people rely on public transportation to get around. A refusal to extend voting times to 24 hours since so many poor people work 2 jobs and feel compelled to work for fear of getting fired if they miss work time whereas someone like me could sneak off and vote and my employer wouldn't say a word to me.

                    Those are just the "subtle" ways we suppress votes that have been empirically demonstrated from one corner of the country to another. I'd provide some of the anecdotal evidence I am aware of and have learned and read about, but you seem to find a way to discount just about everything anyway unless it happened to you.
                    I want unified. I have come under fire a lot in this thread, from various folks, and honestly, makes me want to crawl back into my shell. Not the way to solve issues. Not saying you in particular, just kind of lashing out a little. Attack is not productive. Provide an opinion, LISTEN to the counterpoint, and proceed. These past few posts are a good start. Explaining the POV, in depth. I appreciate that.
                    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                    Comment


                    • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

                      Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                      Then why are certain folks against Voter IDs? Apparently Voter IDs suppress votes.

                      I will give in to gerrymandering, that is obvious. But frankly, IMO, need to be a citizen (and have proof) to vote.
                      Voter ID suppresses votes by Republican Sec States closing their offices to "save money" , either with shorter hours or completely, leaving poor people having to go dozens of miles to wait in line when they have to work.

                      https://www.politico.com/story/2012/...n-state-077811

                      Seriously Brent , open your eyes
                      "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


                      Western Michigan Bronco Hockey- 2012 Mason Cup Champions

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                      • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

                        Originally posted by bronconick View Post
                        Voter ID suppresses votes by Republican Sec States closing their offices to "save money" , either with shorter hours or completely, leaving poor people having to go dozens of miles to wait in line when they have to work.

                        https://www.politico.com/story/2012/...n-state-077811

                        Seriously Brent , open your eyes
                        Employers have to legally let their employees vote. Period.
                        Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                        Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                        Comment


                        • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

                          Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                          Employers have to legally let their employees vote. Period.
                          They don't have to give them transportation 25 miles away to get IDs to vote.
                          "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


                          Western Michigan Bronco Hockey- 2012 Mason Cup Champions

                          Comment


                          • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

                            Originally posted by bronconick View Post
                            They don't have to give them transportation 25 miles away to get IDs to vote.
                            They do not, but depending on state, they still have to allow you to take the time off (getting paid is another issue).
                            Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                            Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                            Comment


                            • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

                              Let's put it this way, you need an ID for just about ANYTHING nowadays....except for voting. That's really backwards. Can't buy cigs, booze, without ID. Sometimes when you use your credit card, they ask for ID. Voting? Naw, you're good. Go ahead.

                              The process to elect our leaders is ID-free? Something wrong there.
                              Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                              Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

                              Comment


                              • Re: POTUS 45.32: QAnon Will Help Show the Truth

                                Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                                Let's put it this way, you need an ID for just about ANYTHING nowadays...
                                They even have "enhanced" IDs at the airport, starting in 2020.

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