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Thread: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

  1. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    Is god a metaphor for the laws of physics?
    Yes, in the same way that you are only a metaphor for one of last week’s toenail clippings.

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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    🖐
    God set the rules. And it plays out according to the rules.
    Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypothèse-là.
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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    🖐
    God set the rules. And it plays out according to the rules.
    A Catholic and an Episcopalian MIGHT agree on something.
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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    You make your own god. Sorry, he does not exist.
    Michigan Tech: "Working with scraps and guys from places so remote that Houghton seems like a metropolis"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissThundercat View Post
    A Catholic and an Episcopalian MIGHT agree on something.
    Join the Ordnariate. Then we'd REALLY have something in common.

    But I don't think there are any parishes near you.

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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Join the Ordnariate. Then we'd REALLY have something in common.

    But I don't think there are any parishes near you.
    I know both of our churches place emphasis on the Eucharist, or Holy Communion. I know at Grace, our sermons last about 15 minutes, while Communion is the Main Event.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    You make your own god. Sorry, he does not exist.
    Without Divine Retribution, what keeps people on the straight and narrow?

    No heaven or hell means that you can live your life free of repercussions. If you can get away with it, you're good.

    Belief in a Supreme Judge means that you have somebody watching over all that you do and you have to answer for it.

    Of course, God has a sense of humor. If you're Willie Tulloch, you'd get the surprise of your life that after being an lifelong atheist, you get to meet the Fellow who gives you a pat on the back and bids you enter into the Kingdom you honestly denied.

    If you're a liar, cheat, and a thief, you may get a different reception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissThundercat View Post
    I know both of our churches place emphasis on the Eucharist, or Holy Communion. I know at Grace, our sermons last about 15 minutes, while Communion is the Main Event.
    Are you High Church or Low Church? High Church is Catholic lite (with better music). Low Church is more Protestant (with better music).

    My oldest son and his family belong to the Ordnariate parish in Baltimore. The pastor and his wife have 9 kids. 6 were born while he was Episcopalian. 3 since he swam the Tiber. They're great people. The parish is growing with many young families.

    When I attend Mass up there, it reminds me of what Mass should have become after V2. Tallis, Byrd, Palestrina, de Victoria and the great Catholic composers prior to the 70s, sung by a choir with professional musicians.

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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Without Divine Retribution, what keeps people on the straight and narrow?

    No heaven or hell means that you can live your life free of repercussions. If you can get away with it, you're good.

    Belief in a Supreme Judge means that you have somebody watching over all that you do and you have to answer for it.

    Of course, God has a sense of humor. If you're Willie Tulloch, you'd get the surprise of your life that after being an lifelong atheist, you get to meet the Fellow who gives you a pat on the back and bids you enter into the Kingdom you honestly denied.

    If you're a liar, cheat, and a thief, you may get a different reception.
    Is this a serious post? Taking it as serious makes me baffled. I was taught morals, ethics, right from wrong by two people who think church is an evil entity that is a cult or possibly worse. They definitely don't behave because they are afraid of Divine Retribution. My moral compass is internal and even if I didn't believe (I do- brought myself to church) I would be constrained by my sense of right and wrong.

    Do you really only do things because the Big Guy is watching?

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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    It's time again for the wisdom of Douglas Adams
    “Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
    The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
    "But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
    "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
    "Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”
    "I'm not crazy about reality, but it's still the only place to get a decent meal."
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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Without Divine Retribution, what keeps people on the straight and narrow?

    No heaven or hell means that you can live your life free of repercussions. If you can get away with it, you're good.

    Belief in a Supreme Judge means that you have somebody watching over all that you do and you have to answer for it.

    Of course, God has a sense of humor. If you're Willie Tulloch, you'd get the surprise of your life that after being an lifelong atheist, you get to meet the Fellow who gives you a pat on the back and bids you enter into the Kingdom you honestly denied.

    If you're a liar, cheat, and a thief, you may get a different reception.
    Quote Originally Posted by leswp1 View Post
    Is this a serious post? Taking it as serious makes me baffled.
    Yeah--give that a voice or journalistic form, and it's Onion material. Joe's gotta be trolling the weed patch.

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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Without Divine Retribution, what keeps people on the straight and narrow?

    No heaven or hell means that you can live your life free of repercussions. If you can get away with it, you're good.
    The entire point of morality is it's voluntary. We are radically free -- the full responsibility is on us. We are exactly as good as we decide to be. "Heaven" and "hell" are the world we make, right here on Earth, through our decisions.

    I can sort of understand someone who invents a Divine Policeman to keep him in line. But I can't understand being proud of it. You are saying you don't have the personal strength to create and hold to your own ethical system.

    Be better.

    Human beings have brought something new into Nature: with us ethics and morals enter into reality. They are "arbitrary" in that they are a human invention; as far as we know they are not anywhere else in nature (though we've seen so little of the universe that's a tremendously egotistical thought).

    Language, law, aesthetics, morality. All invented by humans. But yet all "real" at the very least in the Jamesian sense that "whatever works is real."

    It's essential to hold some sort of cooperative, non-self-destructive morality yet the vast majority of people aren't able to conceive of this as an abstraction, so we invented religions to "bring it down to Earth." What else is the story of Jesus than taking a hifalutin abstraction (God) and making it tangible and physical so people can relate to it (His Son)?

    And it works! Well, sort of. Believers still do awful things and justify them, and religious leaders are masterful at making excuses for themselves why they don't actually follow religious dictates, but for the most part religions all say the same thing and it's pretty positive:

    1. The Golden Rule
    2. Help the weak against the strong
    3. There's more to life than self-interest

    Is there anybody who can disagree on those 3 things? Yet none of them are in Nature. They came from human imagination and they've caught on which.... great!
    Last edited by Kepler; 08-08-2019 at 07:34 AM.
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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Are you High Church or Low Church? High Church is Catholic lite (with better music). Low Church is more Protestant (with better music).

    My oldest son and his family belong to the Ordnariate parish in Baltimore. The pastor and his wife have 9 kids. 6 were born while he was Episcopalian. 3 since he swam the Tiber. They're great people. The parish is growing with many young families.

    When I attend Mass up there, it reminds me of what Mass should have become after V2. Tallis, Byrd, Palestrina, de Victoria and the great Catholic composers prior to the 70s, sung by a choir with professional musicians.
    Grace is High Church. We follow the liturgy and it changes with the time of year; right now, we're going through Pentecost.
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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Belief in a Supreme Judge means that you have somebody watching over all that you do and you have to answer for it.
    Beware the Hand of the Almighty.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

  15. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Without Divine Retribution, what keeps people on the straight and narrow?
    Not being a *******?

    If the only thing keeping you honest is a fear of hell, that says a whole lot about you.

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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Some reading material for our sheltered theists.
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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    Not being a *******?

    If the only thing keeping you honest is a fear of hell, that says a whole lot about you.
    i'm not sure if Joe is serious or this is some attempt at trolling us. My gut says he's serious, but maybe I've fallen for the bait and he's really great at trolling?

  18. #938
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    1. The Golden Rule
    2. Help the weak against the strong
    3. There's more to life than self-interest

    Is there anybody who can disagree on those 3 things?
    President Trump isn’t following... can you put these in pictures featuring Brer Rabbit and a Tar Baby? And draw a picture of how big of a stack would be in it for him?

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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Without Divine Retribution, what keeps people on the straight and narrow?
    What a sad question to have to ask.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

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  20. #940
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    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    At least my morality doesn't tell me to bail on my current city. I'm going to stay and try to make my patch of grass a nicer place to live.
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