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  • #526
    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

    Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    OK...let's a take a look at his primary premise:



    Actually...Kepler, rather than I, is the dogmatic ideologue.

    Me: God may or may not exist.
    Kepler: God absolutely does not exist.

    dog·mat·ic - lays down principles as incontrovertibly true

    That was easy, Now...what of him placing others' welfare as secondary to his own personal anti faith agenda?
    Your allegiance to "your side" makes you not only blind but also handicaps your mental acuity. Open your eyes, open your mind, and re-read Kepler again. You'll discover that he is saying the exact opposite of what you are concluding.
    If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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    • #527
      Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

      I was taught that context matters to the Bible. Yes, I get it a lot in terms of 7 supposed scattered verses on LGBT stuff, but it seems like 5mn wants to take the Gospels and leave the rest. Uh no, either we take the whole thing or we cherry pick at will... and anywhere I've been, I've been warned about cherry picking at will.

      Laws/morality have been in existence since the dawn of time; how is he getting Christianity as the cause of morality? Yes, I'm in a wonderful place now, but I left the church for a bit after the actions of Christians.

      Face it, Jesus said he came to tear families apart, too. Also said he came bringing a sword instead of peace. But hey, when you're cherry picking...
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      • #528
        Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

        Yes to the above!

        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
        I spent this past weekend in Ithaca (4-point weekend!) with a friend from Boston, then drove home to Virginia with a friend from Kansas and her enormous Great Pyrenees (pro tip: if you like dogs, get one of those; they are amazing), the latter a balls-to-the-wall Christian minister. I love them both.

        One of the reasons I tease 5mn is he (she?, nah gotta be a he) is so wildly irrelevant to my real life relationships with Christians that I can't help but poke fun. The laughably contorted snarlings he emits, ostensibly in the name of "faith," contrast so pungently with the real, loving faith of my gentle Christian friends -- friends who it should be pointed out are doing something to make a difference in their communities and not just jabbering their Internet Testaments.

        I sincerely wish 5mn luck in the universal project of human existence: coming to terms with our terrifying responsibility as the sole moral agent in an amoral universe. We are the lights and the truths and the ways. Everything else is just scenery.
        The grand Pyrenees is a Christian Minister?? Sorry- couldn't help myself.

        And I agree. I wonder just how many people are converted by vitriol and judgment (and given the fact that Jesus spent a good deal of time railing against this how many people see this as hypocrisy

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        • #529
          Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

          Originally posted by MissThundercat View Post
          I was taught that context matters to the Bible. Yes, I get it a lot in terms of 7 supposed scattered verses on LGBT stuff, but it seems like 5mn wants to take the Gospels and leave the rest. Uh no, either we take the whole thing or we cherry pick at will... and anywhere I've been, I've been warned about cherry picking at will.

          Laws/morality have been in existence since the dawn of time; how is he getting Christianity as the cause of morality? Yes, I'm in a wonderful place now, but I left the church for a bit after the actions of Christians.

          Face it, Jesus said he came to tear families apart, too. Also said he came bringing a sword instead of peace. But hey, when you're cherry picking...
          Finally, a more interesting post. I'm truly sorry to hear about your situation. Many people have serious issues. I hope you get the peace, support and center that your looking for. But to answer your questions...nobody's rejecting anything. Jesus is the basis for Christianity. That is all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

          So question...do you consider the thread to be balanced? Would you consider negativism dumped equally? Are the entire group of skeptics criticized? What about Jews? Muslims? Never. How about dumping on all Christians? Yeah, pretty much all the time. Some might challenge this conclusion...but they won't be able to identify any post. Likewise what percentage of posters dump on Christianity or support that dumping...and what percentage of posters support Christianity?

          So would you say it makes sense for someone who puts their faith seriously to let things that are both unsubstantiated and false go unanswered? One needs to comment to maintain truth. Another question...if someone here criticized the entire LBGTQ community, would it be no big deal? That's 100% wrong...but isn't that really similar to people criticizing all Christians? Its bigotry either way. And speaking out against it is a tough process and that's the purpose of the sword passage.
          Go Gophers!

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          • #530
            Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
            Finally, a more interesting post. I'm truly sorry to hear about your situation. Many people have serious issues. I hope you get the peace, support and center that your looking for. But to answer your questions...nobody's rejecting anything. Jesus is the basis for Christianity. That is all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity

            So question...do you consider the thread to be balanced? Would you consider negativism dumped equally? Are the entire group of skeptics criticized? What about Jews? Muslims? Never. How about dumping on all Christians? Yeah, pretty much all the time. Some might challenge this conclusion...but they won't be able to identify any post. Likewise what percentage of posters dump on Christianity or support that dumping...and what percentage of posters support Christianity?

            So would you say it makes sense for someone who puts their faith seriously to let things that are both unsubstantiated and false go unanswered? One needs to comment to maintain truth. Another question...if someone here criticized the entire LBGTQ community, would it be no big deal? That's 100% wrong...but isn't that really similar to people criticizing all Christians? Its bigotry either way. And speaking out against it is a tough process and that's the purpose of the sword passage.
            If a Muslim or Jew came in here with the same horse hockey you've been peddling, they'd get just as much flak. We're not bashing you because you're Christian, we're bashing you because your arguments are crap.

            As much as I joke Catholics don't read the Bible, your lack of any understanding of the 2000 years of organized Christendom is palpable. You're the groupie arguing your favorite indie rock band is the best thing ever in the history of music without even knowing who the Beatles, Beethoven, or Louis Armstrong are.

            Tl;dr version of you:

            Last edited by unofan; 01-22-2019, 06:26 PM.

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            • #531
              Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

              I think the reason Christianity is talked about more here is that’s the predominant religion of this country. I have a lot of issues with how a lot of this earth treats people in the name of religion.
              I’m currently designing a research trial for northern Nigeria where it’s over 95% Muslim and women are treated like cattle. My study is trying to get the women to use birth control for birth spacing since so many women suffer from not spacing pregnancies and the maternal mortality rate is one of the worst in the world . The woman have over 7 kids each starting around 16 and can’t get divorced without severe consequences, etc because the men control their lives . it’s jsut terrible.
              One could argue some of this is cultural norms not religion but in places like Saudi Arabia how do you separate it?
              For what it’s worth 5, I appreciate that you’re an outspoken Christian who doesn’t vote in lock step with the republicans here to limit people’s rights and crap on the Poors.

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              • #532
                Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

                I’m in an interesting spot. My girlfriend is a practicing Christian and I’ve told her* I’m not sure where I stand on it. I go to church with her to support her. But I don’t participate in communion or any of the other religious activities. I like to listen to the pastors talk, sometimes their sermons have good secular advice. They do a really good job mixing that with the religious message. Those sermons, or at least the secular portions, speak to me. I think that’s a good balance.

                I like the head pastor and they are openly accepting of all people, other religions, and non-believers. There’s never any pressure and they actively speak out against the hatred we see so much from so many Christian groups. I think I could stick with this church, I’m just not sure I will ever join.

                I believe in something, but the church has been used as an instrument of hatred and destruction for so long. I guess I’m somewhere between Christian and agnostic. But I left organized religion about 20-25 years ago. Early on it was due to apathy, after college it was due to my distaste for it.

                *More importantly, she understands and is ok with it. I also told her it’s going to take years for me to actually join a church again. It might never happen. Again, she’s ok with that.
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                • #533
                  Originally posted by unofan View Post
                  If a Muslim or Jew came in here with the same horse hockey you've been peddling, they'd get just as much flak. We're not bashing you because you're Christian, we're bashing you because your arguments are crap.

                  As much as I joke Catholics don't read the Bible, your lack of any understanding of the 2000 years of organized Christendom is palpable. You're the groupie arguing your favorite indie rock band is the best thing ever in the history of music without even knowing who the Beatles, Beethoven, or Louis Armstrong are.

                  Tl;dr version of you:

                  Did you really put Muslims in non religious
                  a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                  • #534
                    Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

                    I grew up in a pretty liberal Lutheran church in which we were taught love, forgiveness, and tolerance. The real living core of that church/congregation was, IMO, what happened in the basement, not the sanctuary above. It was there that people mourned and celebrated and did charitable work together. Credit the church for making that venue available, but I do not see it as God's work; rather, that of ordinary people doing things that clans and communities have been doing for thousands of years all over the planet.
                    Last edited by burd; 01-23-2019, 08:26 AM.

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                    • #535
                      Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

                      Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                      I’m in an interesting spot. My girlfriend is a practicing Christian and I’ve told her* I’m not sure where I stand on it. I go to church with her to support her. But I don’t participate in communion or any of the other religious activities. I like to listen to the pastors talk, sometimes their sermons have good secular advice. They do a really good job mixing that with the religious message. Those sermons, or at least the secular portions, speak to me. I think that’s a good balance.

                      I like the head pastor and they are openly accepting of all people, other religions, and non-believers. There’s never any pressure and they actively speak out against the hatred we see so much from so many Christian groups. I think I could stick with this church, I’m just not sure I will ever join.

                      I believe in something, but the church has been used as an instrument of hatred and destruction for so long. I guess I’m somewhere between Christian and agnostic. But I left organized religion about 20-25 years ago. Early on it was due to apathy, after college it was due to my distaste for it.

                      *More importantly, she understands and is ok with it. I also told her it’s going to take years for me to actually join a church again. It might never happen. Again, she’s ok with that.
                      Communion, so Catholic? If so, are you attending one of the Catholic churches in Oakdale?
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                      • #536
                        Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

                        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                        I’m in an interesting spot. My girlfriend is a practicing Christian and I’ve told her* I’m not sure where I stand on it. I go to church with her to support her. But I don’t participate in communion or any of the other religious activities. I like to listen to the pastors talk, sometimes their sermons have good secular advice. They do a really good job mixing that with the religious message. Those sermons, or at least the secular portions, speak to me. I think that’s a good balance.

                        I like the head pastor and they are openly accepting of all people, other religions, and non-believers. There’s never any pressure and they actively speak out against the hatred we see so much from so many Christian groups. I think I could stick with this church, I’m just not sure I will ever join.

                        I believe in something, but the church has been used as an instrument of hatred and destruction for so long. I guess I’m somewhere between Christian and agnostic. But I left organized religion about 20-25 years ago. Early on it was due to apathy, after college it was due to my distaste for it.

                        *More importantly, she understands and is ok with it. I also told her it’s going to take years for me to actually join a church again. It might never happen. Again, she’s ok with that.
                        Seems mature and reasonable for all parties, and no obstacle for remaining in this state for as long as it's comfortable. If you have kids someday you'll face questions of their upbringing but if you and your partner couldn't figure that stuff out then you'd have way bigger problems than the specific issue at hand.
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                        • #537
                          Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

                          Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                          Communion, so Catholic? If so, are you attending one of the Catholic churches in Oakdale?
                          I just found out (literally, this weekend) that many Protestants also do Communion. I'd always thought it was one of the sacraments that Luther called bullsh-t on, but apparently not. Not just those Catholic-wanna-be Episcopalians, either, but even some rock-ribbed Lutherans.

                          My Presbyterian pastor friend (who told me all this) has even administered it during services. Who knew?
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                          • #538
                            Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

                            IIRC, United Methodists also do communion on special occasions. Remember it from Christmas Eve service at my grandparents' church. Just bread and grape juice (no booze).

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                            • #539
                              Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

                              Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                              Communion, so Catholic? If so, are you attending one of the Catholic churches in Oakdale?
                              No way a Catholic parish would openly accept other denominations and non-believers. Joe's much-loathed "Church of Nice" isn't that nice.

                              Comment

                              • #540
                                Re: Religion Thread: We Could Say a Prayer

                                Lutrens did it years ago, but I think it was for the MD 20/20.

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