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  • #31
    Re: Minnesota State Offseason Thread

    Originally posted by MavHockey14 View Post
    I’m sorry, but hockey wise St. Cloud State is a step above Minnesota State.
    The question really is how much more?
    Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
    dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
    wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
      The question really is how much more?
      Correct, which IMHO, depends a lot on the conference each team plays in.

      Which school is better equipped at the time being to win a National Title? I say St. Cloud thanks to a much more competitive schedule and conference, which has allowed for sustained success and enhances recruiting.
      Last edited by MavHockey14; 03-28-2018, 03:52 PM.
      AF 99

      M-A-V-E-R-I-C-K-S, MAVERICKS, MAVERICKS, GOOOOO STATE!

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      • #33
        Re: Minnesota State Offseason Thread

        Originally posted by MavHockey14 View Post
        Correct, which IMHO, depends a lot on the conference each team plays in.

        Which school is better equipped at the time being to win a National Title? I say St. Cloud thanks to a much more competitive schedule and conference, which has allowed for sustained success and enhances recruiting.
        Agreed.

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        • #34
          Re: Minnesota State Offseason Thread

          Originally posted by MavHockey14;6647326 [B
          They’ve applied to the NCHC and been denied. They don’t hold the cards there, the NCHC does, and honestly, can you find a viable 2nd team to join the NCHC with them?[/B]

          You’re telling me you think SCSU, who has become a consistent winner in the nation’s top conference, has a recently renovated arena, and is ready to win NOW wants to go the cheap route? They’re going to try and hire the best candidate. Mike Hastings, an alum of their school, will undoubtedly be towards the top of their list; let’s see, hire a young guy or hire a guy who leads the nation in wins since he became an NCAA Head Coach?

          I get that you don’t want Hastings to leave, and I don’t either. However, if you think SCSU won’t seriously consider him and Mike won’t do the same, you’re nuts.
          That's my question. Who is coming with Mankato to the NCHC? I just don't see a realistic candidate.

          If Mike wants to play in one of the biggest playgrounds, SCSU is his best shot in the very near and possibly even long term.

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          • #35
            Re: Minnesota State Offseason Thread

            ASU has a new arena to play in so I would think it won't be that long
            Originally posted by SJHovey
            Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
            Originally posted by Brenthoven
            We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by SCSUBlackandRed View Post
              That's my question. Who is coming with Mankato to the NCHC? I just don't see a realistic candidate.

              If Mike wants to play in one of the biggest playgrounds, SCSU is his best shot in the very near and possibly even long term.
              It'll be Arizona State once the arena is built. (Likely once it's started and they have a firm timeline).
              "If you leave ignorance and stupidity alone, ignorance and stupidity will think it's ok."
              -Gallagher

              R.I.P.
              Grandpa G. ~ Feb 11, 1918-Oct. 6, 1999
              Grandma ~ Jan 2004
              Dad ~ Nov. 4, 1958-April 21, 2008
              Grandpa S. ~ June 21, 1932-November 11, 2013

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              • #37
                Originally posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
                It'll be Arizona State once the arena is built. (Likely once it's started and they have a firm timeline).
                Agreed, and it was ASU the first time around and the lack of an arena/plan firmly in place that left the Mavs outside looking in. (Along with a lack of commitment to the program prior to being left out when the league was formed.)

                As I mentioned, the expectation around the program is that in the next 2-4 years, Minnesota State will be an NCHC member. The only thing that would change that, IMHO, is if ASU and the arena fall apart. This was info I was told mid year.

                This is why I’m hopeful Hastings stays — however, lots can change in a couple of months, but I’m sure Hastings has a pretty good idea of when MSU will likely be granted entry into the NCHC.
                AF 99

                M-A-V-E-R-I-C-K-S, MAVERICKS, MAVERICKS, GOOOOO STATE!

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                • #38
                  Re: Minnesota State Offseason Thread

                  Originally posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
                  It'll be Arizona State once the arena is built. (Likely once it's started and they have a firm timeline).
                  I knew that they had applied but everything I saw had their arena situation as an utter mess. Guess we'll see if they can get it figured out. Would be another nice excuse to go to Arizona in the winter, not that more is needed.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Minnesota State Offseason Thread

                    Originally posted by MavHockey14 View Post
                    Agreed, and it was ASU the first time around and the lack of an arena/plan firmly in place that left the Mavs outside looking in. (Along with a lack of commitment to the program prior to being left out when the league was formed.)
                    Actually, I think it was us that also screwed you, not just ASU. Nacho's asked us to apply right after you did to keep the league even and soothe Western and Miami State and we turned them down. Big increase in travel that our budget couldn't/still can't absorb, no projected increase in revenue to offset, not a good fit for us. Had we proceeded, I think there's a higher probability we both would have received offers.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by MavHockey14 View Post
                      Also, Daniel Brickley is leaving school, and will be choosing between San Jose, Los Angeles, and Detroit.
                      Brickley has signed with the LA Kings. Per their release, an introductory press conference will be held tomorrow in Salt Lake City.

                      Happy for Daniel! He earned it, and will get a chance to hop into a great organization right away.
                      AF 99

                      M-A-V-E-R-I-C-K-S, MAVERICKS, MAVERICKS, GOOOOO STATE!

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                      • #41
                        Re: Minnesota State Offseason Thread

                        Originally posted by Double Major View Post
                        The upper tier of the WCHA is definately getting more competitive. Hoping to see improvement from #6-10 in the WCHA,as well. That would be a very good thing.
                        UAH is improved, although the lack of financial investment is going to cap our growth much past scrabbling for home ice. The big question for me really goes to FSU.

                        As far as PWR, flipping conferences isn't always going to be the answer; CC was crap very recently. If the guys aren't playing 100% for 60 minutes against the top half of the conference, that's on them and the coaches, not the competition. There's something to be said about leaving a little bit in the tank, though, given the travel in any western conference.

                        GFM
                        Geof F. Morris
                        UAH BSE MAE 2002
                        UAHHockey.com

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                        • #42
                          Re: Minnesota State Offseason Thread

                          Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                          UAH is improved, although the lack of financial investment is going to cap our growth much past scrabbling for home ice. The big question for me really goes to FSU.

                          As far as PWR, flipping conferences isn't always going to be the answer; CC was crap very recently. If the guys aren't playing 100% for 60 minutes against the top half of the conference, that's on them and the coaches, not the competition. There's something to be said about leaving a little bit in the tank, though, given the travel in any western conference.

                          GFM
                          I'll admit, I don't subscribe to the theory that "weaker" competition has left us unprepared for NCAA play. You have to fight hard to win a WCHA game, and I think our players are ready for that "compete level" when the tournament comes around.

                          I think it's simply a talent issue. The high-skill players just aren't going to come to the WCHA, any more than they are coming to Atlantic Hockey. I think we've grabbed many of the very best undrafted people (Brickley, Tuomie, Mackey, for instance), and we've developed some diamonds in the rough, like a Casey Nelson or a Zeb Knutson. That speaks well for our coaches and players. But look at some of the talent on UMD, for instance. 6 NHL draft picks, including 1st and 2nd rounders. We had one on our roster, a 5th rounder. (NOTE: I wouldn't trade CJ Suess for any of those guys! But bear with me on this!) It's just hard to win at the highest level without a certain amount of top-notch talent.

                          As I've said before on one of these boards, you can be very successful without superstar level talent. Look at the Wild, Columbus, Vegas even. But at the end of the season, the guys hoisting the cup have Kane, Crosby, Keith, Malkin, Letang, etc. I think that's where MSU-M is right now. I have a heck of a lot of fun watching the Mavs (and the Wild, for that matter), but in our current situation, I have a hard time seeing it go much further than we've gone.

                          But, whatever happens, I'll be back next year, wearing purple!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
                            I'll admit, I don't subscribe to the theory that "weaker" competition has left us unprepared for NCAA play. You have to fight hard to win a WCHA game, and I think our players are ready for that "compete level" when the tournament comes around.

                            I think it's simply a talent issue. The high-skill players just aren't going to come to the WCHA, any more than they are coming to Atlantic Hockey. I think we've grabbed many of the very best undrafted people (Brickley, Tuomie, Mackey, for instance), and we've developed some diamonds in the rough, like a Casey Nelson or a Zeb Knutson. That speaks well for our coaches and players. But look at some of the talent on UMD, for instance. 6 NHL draft picks, including 1st and 2nd rounders. We had one on our roster, a 5th rounder. (NOTE: I wouldn't trade CJ Suess for any of those guys! But bear with me on this!) It's just hard to win at the highest level without a certain amount of top-notch talent.

                            As I've said before on one of these boards, you can be very successful without superstar level talent. Look at the Wild, Columbus, Vegas even. But at the end of the season, the guys hoisting the cup have Kane, Crosby, Keith, Malkin, Letang, etc. I think that's where MSU-M is right now. I have a heck of a lot of fun watching the Mavs (and the Wild, for that matter), but in our current situation, I have a hard time seeing it go much further than we've gone.

                            But, whatever happens, I'll be back next year, wearing purple!
                            I am the one who brought the unprepared piece into play, and I don’t think it’s the only factor contributing to the lack of success in the NCAAs, but to me it’s definitely a part of it. Coaching hockey, we always try and schedule the toughest opponents we can, to force us to play at an elite level consistently, for example. This is no different. When the competition is consistently better, night in and night out, your game is forced to meet a higher standard, and do it consistently.

                            If we were talking 2-4, even 6 games, okay, not a huge difference. However, when 20 of the games in your league involve teams worse than all 8 teams in the NCHC, that’s 10 series where the Mavs would’ve played better competition. Half their schedule. That’s staggering to me.

                            Ultimately, the blame for the lack of NCAA success Kaus at the feet of Coach Hastings and his staff, and the players. However, a weaker schedule compared to most legit contenders, as well as the larger issue, a recruiting barrier, particularly with in state schools UMD and SCSU, certainly don’t help the cause.

                            For example, the Poehling brothers all grew up an hour north of Mankato. None of them considered MSU, and all ended up at SCSU.

                            Mikey and Joey Anderson, both of whom played 75 minutes from Mankato, never sniffed campus. They ended up at UMD. (Now, their grandpa played a year at UMD and their father went to high school in Duluth and played D3 there, so they may have never had a shot anyways, but just a quick example.)

                            The top kids from the state that produces the most top end high school talent in the country see Mankato as the fourth option. To be considered the second option, with SCSU and UMD, is realistic, and is much more attainable in the NCHC where you consistently play against similar high end talent on a nightly basis.
                            Last edited by MavHockey14; 04-04-2018, 09:51 AM.
                            AF 99

                            M-A-V-E-R-I-C-K-S, MAVERICKS, MAVERICKS, GOOOOO STATE!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Minnesota State Offseason Thread

                              While I agree with the above posts, I believe that if playing stronger competition, you improve yourself, and if playing weaker competition, you regress. If I am playing golf against Tiger Woods, I know that I would shave a couple of strokes off my score, but if playing my grandson (who actually has beat me once), I will be adding a couple of strokes. I believe that is human nature.

                              Same thing would happen to the Mavericks in the NCHC. They would improve, plus they would get better recruits.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Minnesota State Offseason Thread

                                I hate this conversation as it's very hard to have a rational, level-headed conversation about it. There are very good reasons to switch conferences. There are also very good reasons to NOT switch conferences. I personally believe that the best of reasons for moving conferences are off-ice reasons. People can bad on our fans all they want (and many times I would disagree with them), but I worry what would happen if we weren't in the top 3 of the conference every year. Not having top-level talent on our team and not having top level talent on the teams we're playing and not having any local rivalries to fall back on are extremely difficult to overcome.

                                Do I worry that we could become a doormat like we were in the old WCHA? Of course, because we've seen it before and it sucks. I have a lot more confidence in our current coach than I had in previous regimes though. I think we all would be happy if we had a run like St Cloud and there isn't a reason that we shouldn't be in the same category as them.

                                I do believe that the WCHA is on it's way up and will continue rising. I think there are 4-5 teams that have shown that fully investing in your team will lead to good results. I get there are different situations and not all of the schools have the same motivations and I dont' blame them for that. We all have to make choices on what's best for us in our every day life and schools have to do the same thing. Different schools have different climates within their region as far as finances, fans, and on-ice product. The reality is that having some schools putting caps on financial committment puts a cap on the rest of the schools, unless there are 7-8 teams that go all in (like the old WCHA) and only 2-3 that have financial restrictions. For God's sake, we were that school that didn't fully commit for a LONG time. There is a reason we weren't included in the initial group of schools in the NCHC in the first place.

                                I know it sounds like a slap in the face of our conference mates. It's not, it's just that we have different situations and different realities of what we need to do to succeed. It's not the intent of anyone. From the day that the conference shifts were initially announced, the MSU program (including Troy Jutting) said that wasn't the end of the realignment. Everyone knew the current makeup wasn't going to be the final makeup.
                                Mess with the bull, you get the horns.

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