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Thread: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

  1. #801
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Meh, the voter suppression done by Republicans had a far greater effect than anything Russia did. And she was a historically bad candidate.
    Hardly.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Which of them lost to Donald Trump?

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Which of them lost to Donald Trump?
    John Kerry, Michael Dukakis, and Al Gore all lost to candidates with less Charisma than Donald Trump. Your narrative is wrong.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Meh, the voter suppression done by Republicans had a far greater effect than anything Russia did. And she was a historically bad candidate.
    Yeah, sorry but I don't buy that. Goopers were suppressing votes 2012 too and it didn't help. The sophistication of the Russian effort was far more high level than anything the dunderheads in the GOP could have come up with. Particularly the social media part. If you don't think they wouldn't have done the same thing to Sanders you're out of your mind. Especially with all the sexual harassment beefs with his campaign in 2016 that are now coming out. Russia would have hacked those e-mails and sent that to Wikileaks all during Oct-Nov.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...havior-1093836
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Lmao, none of the candidates Scooby mentioned lost to someone as blatantly moronic, (provably) racist, childish, and had as many previous scandals as the current president. Losing to him is far worse than losing to W or HW it's not even close and I say that as someone who recognizes that W was one of the worst presidents of all time.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Lmao, none of the candidates Scooby mentioned lost to someone as blatantly moronic, (provably) racist, childish, and had as many previous scandals as the current president. Losing to him is far worse than losing to W or HW it's not even close and I say that as someone who recognizes that W was one of the worst presidents of all time.
    You say that as if those traits were seen as negatives. That is what got people excited and to the polls.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    A few points:

    1) While I've been guilty of this myself, we need to put aside the notion that either Hillary was a historically bad candidate or Bernie Bros all voted Chump to put him over the top. As time has now shown, the primary reason for Trump's election was an unprecedented effort by Russia to put him in the WH through legal and illegal means. I'll let Bob Mueller sort out what Chump did and didn't know, but with the scope of the Russian effort now known that's why he won and she lost. Every time he did something stupid that would normally bury a candidate, Russia would turn around and leak some BS damaging to Clinton that the sheep like media would run with. Had Bernie, Martin O'Malley, or Lincoln freakin' Chafee been the nominee, Russia would have done the same thing.

    2) I'm somewhat skeptical of this latest GOP/Putin effort for several reasons but the most prominent being that there's like 20 people running for President. Which one do you choose to boost over the others? Its not like the either or contest of Hillary vs Bernie.

    3) Lastly, aside from Joe Biden, who exactly is the "moderate" amongst the people running for Prez? Sherrod Brown? Klobacher? Booker? Really?
    The stated GOP approach is to make Beto look like he loves oil and is a borderline racist to the left so he gets primaried out - leaving us with a field of left wing candidates any one of which are easy to position as 'socialists'. Ready the trolls.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    John Kerry, Michael Dukakis, and Al Gore all lost to candidates with less Charisma than Donald Trump. Your narrative is wrong.
    All W really had to separate himself from Gore *was* his folksy charisma. Gore was the android in 2000.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Yeah, sorry but I don't buy that. Goopers were suppressing votes 2012 too and it didn't help.
    Yeah... Barack also had more appeal than Hillary (especially among black voters) and Romney was basically just another establishment/RINO type that didn't exactly excite the base nearly as much as Trump. Not to mention NC was blue up until 2012 and Wisconsin's voter ID law wasn't yet in effect (was blocked by the courts). Losing those two states basically lost the election.
    The sophistication of the Russian effort was far more high level than anything the dunderheads in the GOP could have come up with.
    Not really, they just kinda put her baggage out there for the world to see and she had a ton of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerphisch View Post
    You say that as if those traits were seen as negatives. That is what got people excited and to the polls.
    The racism sure, that certainly motivated the 35% built in base he currently has.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 01-10-2019 at 12:35 PM.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    Before it was discussed how Beto and Bernie might compete for votes...even though they are seemingly dissimilar. Well the strategy of using the far left to defeat Beto is the new GOP strategy.

    THE G.O.P.íS PLAN TO TAKE DOWN BETO: UNLEASH THE BERNIE BROS

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019...s-progressives

    Frankly, the best strategy to take down Trump is Minnesota's Tim Walz approach. In Minnesota's governor primary process, the outstate D moderate Walz was favored over more liberal Twin Cities candidates - even in the cities - because instinctively they knew he would be better at taking down the GOP. The plan worked like a charm...and Walz sailed to victory.

    In the presidential election, we need to do the same by putting up a moderate candidate. That's why the GOP is trying to stop moderates like Beto and help Bernie. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Russian trolls start to support Bernie and attack Beto.
    Agreed. In my opinion what they are most interested in doing is sowing discord; right now they have the left vs center division to exploit. And we're willing to fall for it -- at Kos that sort of trolling inevitable results in rhetorical bloodshed even though there are plenty of voices there explaining that this is obviously bots and Republicans acting as agents provocateur.

    I expect them to also play this game with: female vs male candidates, white vs POC candidates, black vs brown candidates. Dump and the GOP are such a sh-tshow they need to foment civil disorder on the D side to have any chance. We have to protect ourselves against their attacks. The best protection is education: we must bear in mind that American conservatism is so intellectually and morally bankrupt that they can only sabotage our side.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    All W really had to separate himself from Gore *was* his folksy charisma. Gore was the android in 2000.
    If I remember correctly the whole, who would you rather have a beer with was big in 2000.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    There's no need to pigeon hole candidates as "left" or "moderate," especially not now when none of them has released a statement of aims and principles. The media likes that because it's cheap, shallow analysis. The candidates themselves like to label their opponents because that can only winnow appeal. But we should all realize that such labels are great oversimplifications that hide details which can be harder to generalize about but which reflect reality.

    For example, was Obama "left" or "moderate"? We can all come up with half a dozen examples of him being either. That's what governance does.

    I have preference on particular issues but I don't have a purity test. Every Democratic candidate who has announced or is likely to announce is fine by me. The mission of this election is not to nominate my dream, it's to sweep the Republicans from office everywhere from the White House to the local dog catcher, hopefully to render them a toothless regional party until they renounce fascism.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Not really, they just kinda put her baggage out there for the world to see and she had a ton of it.
    The point was the Russians ability to keep nothingburger stories in the news (unless you think there WAS something to Hillary's e-mails trix) and time them perfectly to distract from Trump's blunders by using both social media and manipulating the national media (see the NY Times for example).

    Had Bernie been the nominee the now known widespread sexual harassment going on in his campaign would have been front and center in the news and instead of an effort to keep blacks and lefties home the Russians would have used that to keep women home. There's also be a constant barrage of his wife being under a federal investigation at the time for ripping off a college in Burlington, as well as how Sanders didn't seem to have a steady job until like age 40 when elected mayor of Burlington so how was he supporting himself for the 20 years after college. You still subscribe to the Bernie as the Messiah schtick which is amusing to say the least.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post

    For example, was Obama "left" or "moderate"? We can all come up with half a dozen examples of him being either. That's what governance does.
    I believe Obama, like Clinton before him, was a "conservative" Kep! Which makes me wonder why the actual conservatives disliked them so much....
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved.

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I believe Obama, like Clinton before him, was a "conservative" Kep! Which makes me wonder why the actual conservatives disliked them so much....
    He ended up being more small "c" conservative than GW was. That's what's so funny. The Republican party is everything BUT small "c" conservative. They'll blow money like an 18 year old set loose in a whorehouse as long as its for things they like to blow money on. Corporate Stock Buybacks? No problem. Defense? No problem. Wall on the Southern Border? No problem. The list goes on and on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sicatoka View Post
    Almost as offensive as a college girl dancing on a roof!

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    He ended up being more small "c" conservative than GW was. That's what's so funny. The Republican party is everything BUT small "c" conservative. They'll blow money like an 18 year old set loose in a whorehouse as long as its for things they like to blow money on. Corporate Stock Buybacks? No problem. Defense? No problem. Wall on the Southern Border? No problem. The list goes on and on.
    I just missed the part about higher taxes on the rich, expansion of govt run healthcare, and increased regulation of the financial industry relating to small "c" conservatism, traditional conservatism, neo-conservatism, or batchit insane conservatism Scoobs. Can you tell me when any of those things were conservative?
    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I just missed the part about higher taxes on the rich, expansion of govt run healthcare, and increased regulation of the financial industry relating to small "c" conservatism, traditional conservatism, neo-conservatism, or batchit insane conservatism Scoobs. Can you tell me when any of those things were conservative?
    Higher taxes on the rich pays the bills. Paying the bills is small c.
    Government Run Health Care will save money in the long run and decrease costs. Small c.
    Regulation of any industry done correctly. Not too much, not too little is small c.
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sicatoka View Post
    You're outraged by the incredibly dumb things that outrage you too? Of all the thing to choose from, it was this?

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