Page 38 of 42 FirstFirst ... 282930313233343536373839404142 LastLast
Results 741 to 760 of 824

Thread: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

  1. #741
    Yep, still here
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    28,735

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    The W administration used a bloodthirsty post 9/11 nation with 60+% approval rating in 2002-03 and was intelligently evil in convincing the nation and allies to hit Iraq. Trump can't stay on target for more than a day, is mired between 38-44% and has alienated everyone outside of Israel and Saudi Arabia. Their suggestion of 120k troops is probably only 20% of what would actually be needed and would have an outcome closer to Vietnam than Iraq.
    "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


    Western Michigan Bronco Hockey- 2012 Mason Cup Champions

  2. #742
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    6,435

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    So just a few days back U.S. and Israel were warning about Iran saying they may attack. Uhm, https://twitter.com/cbseveningnews/s...120472576?s=21

    Do we really believe this? With how the US broke Iraq their neighbor would think now “hey man, what a great idea, let’s invite the US to come destroy us.”

  3. #743

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    20904/13677/07677/07621
    Posts
    37,790
    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    The W administration used a bloodthirsty post 9/11 nation with 60+% approval rating in 2002-03 and was intelligently evil in convincing the nation and allies to hit Iraq. Trump can't stay on target for more than a day, is mired between 38-44% and has alienated everyone outside of Israel and Saudi Arabia. Their suggestion of 120k troops is probably only 20% of what would actually be needed and would have an outcome closer to Vietnam than Iraq.
    Post 9/11 Patriot Act was/is awful and the Iraq war was a gonad inspired revenge killing. In this 43 was Sonny, when he needed to be Michael.

  4. #744
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    8,492

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    The W administration used a bloodthirsty post 9/11 nation with 60+% approval rating in 2002-03 and was intelligently evil in convincing the nation and allies to hit Iraq. Trump can't stay on target for more than a day, is mired between 38-44% and has alienated everyone outside of Israel and Saudi Arabia. Their suggestion of 120k troops is probably only 20% of what would actually be needed and would have an outcome closer to Vietnam than Iraq.
    Easy. He's a condo salesman who has always operated with lies and his father's money. He is performing to his maximum capability.

  5. #745

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    20904/13677/07677/07621
    Posts
    37,790

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    John Bolton just orgasmed and the red button beeped.

    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...bmarines-57517

  6. #746

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Living from my car
    Posts
    23,108

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    So this sh** is really happening, eh?



    Seems a little soon to blow his load like this before the 2020 election...

  7. #747
    Lucia Apologist
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    28,203

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    This is such an extraordinarily bad idea. Congress has to authorize the war, right? They’ve never given permission to enter Iran. Does the “whatever stupid name for the GWOT authorization act” give dip-hit the latitude to do this?

  8. #748

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Further on down the road
    Posts
    64,320

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by solovsfett View Post
    Yes, but Caitlin Johnstone is not agitprop imo. I’ve been reading her stuff for several years and have not detected disinformation.

    Now, I could be wrong and she is Kim Philby part 2, but that’s Not an impression i’ve Gotten from reading her stuff which is almost exclusively anti-war, anti-empire/hegemony etc
    I've been generally heartbroken in the last decade plus how easily my fellow anti-war, anti-imperialists have been played by RT et al. I have never understood how people who are smart and hard-headed and cynical enough to understand the USG operates as an imperialist hegemon can also be so gullible when falling for other states' propaganda and self-interested narratives.

    They completely get that the US, Israel, and the Saudis are sociopathic liars but they miss that Russia, China, and Iran are... sociopathic liars.

    It's like House said: everybody lies. International relations is a libertarian paradise: an anarchic marketplace where everything is for sale including historical truths, present facts, and future motives.
    Last edited by Kepler; 05-15-2019 at 08:53 AM.
    Cornell University
    NCAA Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019

  9. #749
    Lucia Apologist
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    28,203

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    This article digs into authority. Found it with a quick google search. No idea if they’re reputable.

    https://www.justsecurity.org/57338/t...ity-proposals/

  10. #750
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    4,574
    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    This is such an extraordinarily bad idea. Congress has to authorize the war, right? They’ve never given permission to enter Iran. Does the “whatever stupid name for the GWOT authorization act” give dip-hit the latitude to do this?
    We’ve recently decided the constitution is worthless. 10 out of 10 republicans agree

  11. #751
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    6,435

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    One anonymous source says it was Iran: https://t.co/1lTOkcqFlI

    Again, how convenient. But is it logical? Do we really think Iran wants 150,000 US troop invasion, drone strikes and occupation forever?

    At some point I would think the world would have enough of us pushing war in every country with resources we want or alternately to continue sales of weapons etc.

  12. #752
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    6,435
    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I've been generally heartbroken in the last decade plus how easily my fellow anti-war, anti-imperialists have been played by RT et al. I have never understood how people who are smart and hard-headed and cynical enough to understand the USG operates as an imperialist hegemon can also be so gullible when falling for other states' propaganda and self-interested narratives.

    They completely get that the US, Israel, and the Saudis are sociopathic liars but they miss that Russia, China, and Iran are... sociopathic liars.

    It's like House said: everybody lies. International relations is a libertarian paradise: an anarchic marketplace where everything is for sale including historical truths, present facts, and future motives.
    I mostly agree with you however I don’t feel Caitlin Johnstone or Lee Camp are foreign agents or purveyors of disinformation etc.

    Are Russia and China bad actors? Yes, of course but T some point we have to control what we can control which is our behavior on the world stage.

    To coin a 90’s phrase, it’s bad optics to push for war in Iran when the history is the cia already destroyed them by taking out mossadegh. It’s bad optics to goad N Korea into war or whatever Bolty wants after we fought them 60 years ago and used bio weapons and killed over 1 million people.
    It’s Bad optics to push for yet another Coup in Central or South America where the cia has destroyed El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala, Venezuela.

    We have no moral high ground. And that goes all the way back to Allen Dulles and John Foster Dulles writing the Treaty of Versailles. At least that far back.

    But yes, we’re not the only liars and purveyors of disinformation and propaganda.

  13. #753

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Further on down the road
    Posts
    64,320

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by solovsfett View Post
    I don’t feel Caitlin Johnstone or Lee Camp are foreign agents or purveyors of disinformation etc.
    I don't think they are witting. I think they're like the American socialists in the 50s and 60s who apologized for Russia and defended the show trials and the purges. They knew full well that people like McCarthy and Nixon who demonized all socialists were bad actors but they made the logical fallacy that anything a liar calls bad must be good. The whole point of a machine like a McCarthy or Nixon, or for that matter a Dump, is their words have no connection with reality. That doesn't mean their assertion x has to be False. It means the fact of their assertion implies no information at all about x. It's less that they lie than they emit nonsense.
    Cornell University
    NCAA Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019

  14. #754
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    6,435
    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I don't think they are witting. I think they're like the American socialists in the 50s and 60s who apologized for Russia and defended the show trials and the purges. They knew full well that people like McCarthy and Nixon who demonized all socialists were bad actors but they made the logical fallacy that anything a liar calls bad must be good. The whole point of a machine like a McCarthy or Nixon, or for that matter a Dump, is their words have no connection with reality. That doesn't mean their assertion x has to be False. It means the fact of their assertion implies no information at all about x. It's less that they lie than they emit nonsense.
    All of that is true however does not apply to Johnstone, Camp or outlets like Consortium or Mintpress. None of them apologize for the bad actors. They focus on American hegemony and imperialism because: no-one including daily beast, Chomsky, Goodman huff post et al are calling our government out for their malfeasance. They’re gatekeepers and the investigative reporters like Camp, Johnstone or Webb, Hastings, Kilgallen, Casolaro must report in tiny journals because corporate money will never support journalists who call them out for attempting to wage war which clears the way for Bayer/Monsanto to overturn chavez’ law against bayer’s Plans and control venezuelas oil output etc. then they have the further indignity of being ripped for not being part of msm or insert x’s trusted new site here.

    At least that’s my view.

  15. #755

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Further on down the road
    Posts
    64,320

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by solovsfett View Post
    All of that is true however does not apply to Johnstone, Camp or outlets like Consortium or Mintpress. None of them apologize for the bad actors. They focus on American hegemony and imperialism because: no-one including daily beast, Chomsky, Goodman huff post et al are calling our government out for their malfeasance. They’re gatekeepers and the investigative reporters like Camp, Johnstone or Webb, Hastings, Kilgallen, Casolaro must report in tiny journals because corporate money will never support journalists who call them out for attempting to wage war which clears the way for Bayer/Monsanto to overturn chavez’ law against bayer’s Plans and control venezuelas oil output etc. then they have the further indignity of being ripped for not being part of msm or insert x’s trusted new site here.

    At least that’s my view.
    I agree that investigative journalists are great people doing the lord's work. I don't know about these particular cases. I hope they are as diligent vetting sources and as cynical about all governments as about ours.

    I am never surprised to find that the USG may be lying about an enemy's or rival's actions. That's how you manufacture consent in a "democracy." Now combine that with Bolton and his crowd, who are deranged, and Dump and his crowd, who are criminals, and frankly nothing would surprise me.
    Cornell University
    NCAA Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019

  16. #756
    there's a good buck in that racket.
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    oasis in the middle east
    Posts
    42,373

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    remember the maine!!
    a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

  17. #757
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    6,435
    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I agree that investigative journalists are great people doing the lord's work. I don't know about these particular cases. I hope they are as diligent vetting sources and as cynical about all governments as about ours.

    I am never surprised to find that the USG may be lying about an enemy's or rival's actions. That's how you manufacture consent in a "democracy." Now combine that with Bolton and his crowd, who are deranged, and Dump and his crowd, who are criminals, and frankly nothing would surprise me.
    Agree 100% on vetting sources and well more than agree as well on manufacturing consent in the US today, esp with Bolton, Abrams et al.

    With regard to specifics on investigative reporters: Camp and Johnstone are more editorialists commenting on news articles and document release though Camp does conduct interviews with historians etc.

    The rest; Danny Casolaro, Michael Hastings, Dorothy Kilgallen, Gary Webb and people like Robert Parry (consortium news and others) and Gaeton Fonzi (nbc news, 60 minutes, Philadelphia inquirer, 2 senate investigations) really led the way on true unbiased investigative journalism. The first 4 died under unusual circumstances although Webb may likely was suicide (despite two gunshots to the head).

    I may come across sometimes as too harsh on the U.S. I guess 2-3 years ago Trump’s tweet about releasing files then reneging under pressure and breaking the law in so doing along with watching Wormwood awoke my curiosity on what people call the deep state. I have about 30 books down and 45 to go. Then I read about Henry Ford building engines for nazi trucks and tanks getting away with treason (along with dozens and dozens of others) and then suing the gov’t for bombing his facilities in Germany and winning! That kick started my history kick for sure.

    I love the country but not the Power Elite. I wish we had 100,000 Ed Exley types in government and LE.

  18. #758

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Living from my car
    Posts
    23,108

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?


  19. #759
    rock and roller
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    no man's land, between wildcat and black bear territory
    Posts
    22,471

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by aparch View Post
    Jesus Christ, this administration's staff are idiots.

    This flippancy, this seeming lack of concern in regard to potential outcomes of policy, the unconcern in future-planning out the repercussions of that policy, the lack of foresight about what those repercussions are, or what courses of action our enemies may be contemplating in the future, that doesn't bother any of the "not a Trump supporter, but" members of this board?

    It's certainly fair to say that you were warned that this sort of thing was going to happen. That you blissfully waved it off, since our "institutions will protect us". well, this is what happens when you elect amateurs to run government, people who don't believe in government, people who don't believe career government workers have much-needed skills and experience in dealing with matters such as this. What happens when you eliminate competency as a requirement of your political candidates.

    But no, I'm just being hysterical.
    Last edited by rufus; 05-16-2019 at 10:03 AM.
    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

  20. #760

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Further on down the road
    Posts
    64,320

    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Thompson is a protege of Flynn and a favorite of Pence. She has degrees from the University of South Dakota and LIU. No word on whether she was capable of getting into Trump University. Her highest educational attainment, National Defense University, is the same DOD summer camp Dr. Mrs. did in her spare time on a lark when she worked full time on the Hill.

    In other words, Thompson's a joke, but she's cute (which counts a lot with this administration) and she's ideologically compliant for RW silliness.
    Cornell University
    NCAA Champion 1967, 1970
    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
    Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •