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Thread: Making a Murderer updates

  1. #301
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    I posted this earlier, but I'll repeat it. I do think it's unlikely Halbach was killed in the trailer or garage. I just think they'd have found blood.

    I also don't think that the prosecution's narrative as to precisely how and where the murder happened turns out to be correct. But I don't think the blood in the Rav4 necessarily exonerates Avery.

    He could very well have killed her in the yard, then loaded the body into her car with the intent to dispose of the body somewhere. He leaves the compound in the Rav4, maybe checks out the quarry for a spot to do it, or some other spots. Maybe then he hits on the idea of burning the body up, in the pit (probably not likely) or in a barrel somewhere on the property.

    I don't know, but I think there are ways that the Rav4 evidence makes sense when Avery is still the killer. Yeah, no one has said he left, but no one has said he didn't leave either.
    I guess I see where you're coming from, but I still think it falls apart. Where I struggle with this kind of theory is motive. I can buy the sexual motive presented originally. To me, that is part of the original argument that actually did make sense. If he kills her in the yard, and there isn't a sexual assault, that doesn't make sense with a motive that actually does make sense. Unless you think he sexually assaulted her in the yard, in view of his sister's house, which seems very unlikely too.
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    I guess I see where you're coming from, but I still think it falls apart. Where I struggle with this kind of theory is motive. I can buy the sexual motive presented originally. To me, that is part of the original argument that actually did make sense. If he kills her in the yard, and there isn't a sexual assault, that doesn't make sense with a motive that actually does make sense. Unless you think he sexually assaulted her in the yard, in view of his sister's house, which seems very unlikely too.
    It's obviously a very interesting case, and if he didn't do it, I certainly hope he gets out sooner rather than later.

    That said, I think this case will take a very tragic turn if Zellner really starts pointing the finger at Bobby Dassey or Tadych. It will rip that family apart, even more so than it already is. And if she points the finger but doesn't get the job done, then Avery is still in prison and the family is still ripped apart.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

  3. #303
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    It's obviously a very interesting case, and if he didn't do it, I certainly hope he gets out sooner rather than later.

    That said, I think this case will take a very tragic turn if Zellner really starts pointing the finger at Bobby Dassey or Tadych. It will rip that family apart, even more so than it already is. And if she points the finger but doesn't get the job done, then Avery is still in prison and the family is still ripped apart.
    And you could see it already going that direction in season 2. Unfortunately, if Scott or Bobby did do it, and it can be proven, then I don't see a way to avoid that. I feel bad for the family members that really didn't have a role in this, because either way, they lose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    I posted this earlier, but I'll repeat it. I do think it's unlikely Halbach was killed in the trailer or garage. I just think they'd have found blood.

    I also don't think that the prosecution's narrative as to precisely how and where the murder happened turns out to be correct. But I don't think the blood in the Rav4 necessarily exonerates Avery.

    He could very well have killed her in the yard, then loaded the body into her car with the intent to dispose of the body somewhere. He leaves the compound in the Rav4, maybe checks out the quarry for a spot to do it, or some other spots. Maybe then he hits on the idea of burning the body up, in the pit (probably not likely) or in a barrel somewhere on the property.

    I don't know, but I think there are ways that the Rav4 evidence makes sense when Avery is still the killer. Yeah, no one has said he left, but no one has said he didn't leave either.
    Possible... unlikely but more plausible than their current theories

    FYI I'm not being argumentative I enjoy this conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    I guess I see where you're coming from, but I still think it falls apart. Where I struggle with this kind of theory is motive. I can buy the sexual motive presented originally. To me, that is part of the original argument that actually did make sense. If he kills her in the yard, and there isn't a sexual assault, that doesn't make sense with a motive that actually does make sense. Unless you think he sexually assaulted her in the yard, in view of his sister's house, which seems very unlikely too.
    Yeah. Every theory contradicts some major point in the case. Seems like a fishing expedition that the jury fell for.

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    Re: Making a Murderer updates


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    Re: Making a Murderer updates


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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Well I gotta say, if the bones at the Quarry end up being TH's then the entirety of the Prosecution case goes down the crapper. I mean they would need a whole new story as to what happened which then directly contradicts the accomplice testimony. I mean literally the only real piece of evidence is the RAV 4 and the blood on the key. They wouldnt have anything else to tie Avery to the murder.

    I never much trust the COA but that would seem to be enough to at least order a new trial. If Avery had been able to present that at trial it is reasonable to believe a jury may have not convicted him because of that.
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by solovsfett View Post
    Wow...
    From the aritcle: "Regardless, Zellner claims to have an abundance of new evidence that Colborn found Halbach’s car on November 3rd, and not on the Avery property. She’s filed affidavits from two witnesses who claim to have seen the RAV-4 parked off Highway 147, one of whom says she informed Colborn directly, and he failed to document the conversation.

    “We have also filed an enhanced audio tape which reveals a second person at the scene saying ‘It’s hers,’ which confirms the vehicle was present when Colborn’s call was made,” Zellner tells Rolling Stone.
    "
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    Wow...
    From the aritcle: "Regardless, Zellner claims to have an abundance of new evidence that Colborn found Halbach’s car on November 3rd, and not on the Avery property. She’s filed affidavits from two witnesses who claim to have seen the RAV-4 parked off Highway 147, one of whom says she informed Colborn directly, and he failed to document the conversation.

    “We have also filed an enhanced audio tape which reveals a second person at the scene saying ‘It’s hers,’ which confirms the vehicle was present when Colborn’s call was made,” Zellner tells Rolling Stone.
    "
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Well I gotta say, if the bones at the Quarry end up being TH's then the entirety of the Prosecution case goes down the crapper. I mean they would need a whole new story as to what happened which then directly contradicts the accomplice testimony. I mean literally the only real piece of evidence is the RAV 4 and the blood on the key. They wouldnt have anything else to tie Avery to the murder.

    I never much trust the COA but that would seem to be enough to at least order a new trial. If Avery had been able to present that at trial it is reasonable to believe a jury may have not convicted him because of that.
    Even better, the bones in the quarry end up being from another woman, missing and presumed dead for many years. Netflix can then kick this story over into their serial killer genre. After all, it is Wisconsin. What self-respecting Wisconsin male stops after killing just one victim.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

  12. #312
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Even better, the bones in the quarry end up being from another woman, missing and presumed dead for many years. Netflix can then kick this story over into their serial killer genre. After all, it is Wisconsin. What self-respecting Wisconsin male stops after killing just one victim.
    So, the Bobby Dassey: Serial Killer theory. I believe this is actually a thing, no idea of any kind of validity, and it is most likely an internet rabbit hole.
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Even better, the bones in the quarry end up being from another woman, missing and presumed dead for many years. Netflix can then kick this story over into their serial killer genre. After all, it is Wisconsin. What self-respecting Wisconsin male stops after killing just one victim.
    This is very true. No matter how it plays out Netflix has a spinoff series in the making. If found evidence proves he did it then they have the inevitable "Steven Aver: Confirmed Seriel Killer" specials where they try and figure out how many he killed. If he isnt there is the "MAM: The Hunt For The True Killer" series and if they figure it out right away then you have the "[insert name here]: Inside a Criminals Mind" style special. They stumbled on a GOLD MINE!
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  14. #314
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    This is very true. No matter how it plays out Netflix has a spinoff series in the making. If found evidence proves he did it then they have the inevitable "Steven Aver: Confirmed Seriel Killer" specials where they try and figure out how many he killed. If he isnt there is the "MAM: The Hunt For The True Killer" series and if they figure it out right away then you have the "[insert name here]: Inside a Criminals Mind" style special. They stumbled on a GOLD MINE!
    Well part of the reason its on Netflix is I cant imagine trying to sell advertisements for programming like that...and when they did the first one they were still the main streaming service...now they have quite a bit more competition.
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    Well part of the reason its on Netflix is I cant imagine trying to sell advertisements for programming like that...and when they did the first one they were still the main streaming service...now they have quite a bit more competition.
    Have you heard of a show called "Unsolved Mysteries" with Robert Stack?
    But really, I get what you're saying. It's real life Cop Drama Network Show.
    They did stumble upon a gold mine, for sure, as seen by stuff like "The Staircase" or whatever it was called. One time show...UNLESS, "hey this is still ongoing! More seasons!"
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rube View Post
    Have you heard of a show called "Unsolved Mysteries" with Robert Stack?
    But really, I get what you're saying. It's real life Cop Drama Network Show.
    They did stumble upon a gold mine, for sure, as seen by stuff like "The Staircase" or whatever it was called. One time show...UNLESS, "hey this is still ongoing! More seasons!"
    unsolved mysteries is different...the fact that so much of MaM is pointing the finger at the government just isn't something that most companies want to be advertising with...
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Jesus Christ, just bulldoze Wisconsin doj and manitowoc, Calumet and Sheboygan right into Lake Michigan.

    Brad Schimel in his final act of petulant vindictiveness just told Zellner to get bent. Choose the appeal or choose new tests but you can’t have both. And this clown was gift wrapped a judgeship...

    I hope Josh Kaul calls Zellner on day 1, January 7th, you can have rapid DNA testing on the bones found in the quarry, you can have the van and anything else you need. Oh, and we won’t stand in the way when you go after Schimel, Walker, Colburn, Lenk, Manitowoc, Calumet, Suskiewicz, Willis et al for damages later.

    Links later when they’re up.

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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    For now there is this: https://t.co/KtlsEyNeC3


    No word from Zellner yet

  19. #319
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    Re: Making a Murderer updates

    Quote Originally Posted by solovsfett View Post
    For now there is this: https://t.co/KtlsEyNeC3


    No word from Zellner yet
    A lawyer's opinion in the thread...

    Caveat: I practice in the federal courts (from district to US Supreme) and in NY State courts. I have no experience with Wisc. state court criminal or appellate procedure. That said...

    The State's argument is based on the concept of judicial efficiency. However, its argument has holes. Absent some specific Wisc. rules to the contrary, it would appear that KZ's suggested course of action is better in terms of both judicial efficiency and furthering the interests of justice. A lot of work has already gone into transferring the case files to the court of appeals. It makes no sense for SA to act now to voluntarily withdraw his appeal, which already contains a large record, when a stay would preserve the status quo and avoid redundant administrative efforts. If no new information is obtained from testing, then the appeal can proceed quickly. If new information is indeed obtained, then SA can decide at that time whether to withdraw his appeal and seek a new trial in the lower court on the basis of that new evidence and/or easily incorporate that new information into the pending appeal.

    What rings particularly hollow is the State's complaint about delay. It is SA who is sitting in jail and paying the ultimate price for the delay he is requesting. I fail to see how the State or court is adversely affected by whatever delay is caused by SA's request.

    What the State's response has going for it is that courts are inclined to look favorably on arguments that allow them to purge their docket of a pending case. That said, I find the State's arguments logically flawed and unconvincing. I think KZ will be able to take this apart in her reply.

    Just one lawyer's opinion.

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