Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    I could be wrong but I don't see Barnes, at this point, being able to add to the blue line for USA national women's team.
    At the outset, we could hang with the dude...

    Comment


    • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

      Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
      When are cuts going to happen? If it's before the 2nd semester starts, that'll be interesting to see. She'd have to re-enroll in classes at the start of the semester to be able to play.
      In 2014, it happened the first week of January.

      Comment


      • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

        Originally posted by robertearle View Post
        In 2014, it happened the first week of January.
        Oh there you go -- that's plenty of time then
        Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
        Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
        Twitter: @Salzano14


        Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

        Comment


        • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

          Originally posted by Eeyore View Post
          I don't know of many schools that require you to officially withdraw if you just intend to skip a semester or two. However, that may be what she needs to do if she's going to drop out eight weeks into a semester (BC classes started on Aug 28). That's usually too late drop a class without it showing up on your transcript, and taking that many incompletes can be a real problem, even if your professors will grant one.
          It's an Ivy rule. You cannot be enrolled more than 4 years. I.e. there is no red-shirting. You may be able to go back to school for a fifth year, but you cannot participate in a sport. At least that is what an Ivy athlete told me.

          Comment


          • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

            Originally posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post
            I could be wrong but I don't see Barnes, at this point, being able to add to the blue line for USA national women's team.
            Can someone explain USA Hockey to me? Koelzer and Dunne were both at the camp for the tryout--why not pick one of those 2 over an 18-year old with no college experience?

            At this level, you can't tell me that Barnes is that much better than the other two. Dunne has national-level experience and almost made the last Olympic team and Koelzer was a twice-nominated Kaz finalist. Is it politics?

            Comment


            • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

              Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
              Oh there you go -- that's plenty of time then
              But playing the second half of the season blows an entire year of eligibility (unless you can get on the half-year eligible Amanda Kessel schedule, which I still don't really understand). Pankowski, for example, in 2013-2014 sat out the entire year after having been one of those Jan 2014 Olympic team cuts.

              Comment


              • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

                Originally posted by robertearle View Post
                But playing the second half of the season blows an entire year of eligibility
                Oh I know -- I'm not saying the cut players would definitely go back, just that they'd be able to if they so chose. I thought cuts happened after the semester started and after they would have had to enroll.
                Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                Twitter: @Salzano14


                Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

                Comment


                • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

                  Originally posted by robertearle View Post
                  But playing the second half of the season blows an entire year of eligibility (unless you can get on the half-year eligible Amanda Kessel schedule, which I still don't really understand).
                  I don't understand differentiating Kessel from the others (like Larocque) who played in the second half and had it count as a full year of eligibility. Kessel played less than 3.5 seasons. She just had two redshirt years (one for the Olympic year, and one for a medical redshirt).
                  "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
                  And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

                  Comment


                  • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

                    Originally posted by ARM View Post
                    I don't understand differentiating Kessel from the others (like Larocque) who played in the second half and had it count as a full year of eligibility. Kessel played less than 3.5 seasons. She just had two redshirt years (one for the Olympic year, and one for a medical redshirt).

                    And "two redshirt years" is pretty unusual, pretty rare. Usually athletes are required to use their four years of eligibility in a five year period. Rarely do athletes get a second redshirt and an extension into a sixth year. (And the language is that the loss of the years has to be for circumstances out of the player's control.)
                    Last edited by robertearle; 10-29-2017, 10:11 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

                      Originally posted by robertearle View Post
                      And "two redshirt years" is pretty unusual, pretty rare. Usually athletes are required to use their four years of eligibility in a five year period. Rarely do athletes get a second redshirt and an extension into a sixth year. (And the language is that the loss of the years has to be for circumstances out of the player's control.)
                      It's pretty standard for the NCAA to approve a second redshirt year in the case of an injury, particularly if the player missed an entire season, rather than suffering the injury partway through one. The reason it's rare is because the circumstances that would create it are rare, not because the NCAA is reluctant to award the second redshirt. It requires either a player who missed one season on the Olympic team, military service, or something like a Mormon's mission requirement*, and then a subsequent season that qualifies as a medical redshirt. Or, it requires that an athlete have had two seasons lost to medical issues without them being so severe that it ends their ability to play. It just doesn't come up that often.

                      *Indeed, the Mormon missionaries demonstrate how commonplace it is for the NCAA to award an extra year. Their missions are for two years, and the NCAA has a blanket policy of not running the clock on their eligibility while they are gone. Some of them take a redshirt year and the two years off on mission, though the rules on this have gone back and forth.

                      Comment


                      • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

                        Can you name one other player, any sport, who got a sixth year due to being on an Olympic team?

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

                          Originally posted by robertearle View Post
                          Can you name one other player, any sport, who got a sixth year due to being on an Olympic team?
                          Kessel didn't get a sixth year because she was on the Olympic team. She got a sixth year because she missed her fifth with concussion symptoms.

                          Honestly, the Wisconsin complaining about this has reached the point of pathos.

                          Comment


                          • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

                            Originally posted by Eeyore View Post
                            Kessel didn't get a sixth year because she was on the Olympic team. She got a sixth year because she missed her fifth with concussion symptoms.

                            Honestly, the Wisconsin complaining about this has reached the point of pathos.
                            No, she got six years because of both circumstances.

                            There are *countless* college athletes who choose to take a redshirt early in their college careers, and then get injured later on. Because their earlier redshirt year was by choice, they do not get a sixth year because of the injury.

                            An utterly usual case that I happened to look up this week: There's a defensive lineman on the Wisconsin football team named Chikwe Obasih who injured a knee during the first game this year (or in practice the week after, not clear). He hasn't played since. This past week there were stories in the newspaper that he might be cleared to play. I wondered if he or the coaches considered redshirting him, because playing at all at this point would blow the entire year of eligibility. I was pretty sure what I'd find when I looked, and sure enough, in 2013 he took a redshirt year because he was a freshman buried on the depth chart, and wasn't likely to see much time on the field anyway. There is zero chance he could sit out the rest of this year and then get a sixth year from the NCAA despite the 2017 knee injury, because the 2013 redshirt was by choice, and not "due to circumstances beyond the athlete's control".

                            The only question for the comparison between Kessel and (for one example) Obasih is whether taking a year off to go to the Olympics is or should be considered "beyond the athlete's control", etc.

                            It's OK with me if it is. But I'll ask again: can you name one other athlete for whom taking off an Olympic year turned into a sixth year of eligibility? As far as I know, Kessel is not only a rare case, but may well be a unique one. If there are others, I'd love to hear about them.

                            Adding:
                            Another that popped into my head from the UW football team: linebacker Jack Cichy. Played in one game as a freshman in 2013. Wasn't injured or anything, was just that far down on the depth charts. Took a non-injury redshirt year in 2014. Played the entire season in 2015. Played seven games in 2016 (meaning a full year of eligibility) before a season-ending injury. Suffered another season-ending injury (maybe season-precluding would be a better way to say it) in spring practice in 2017. He/they might try for a sixth year for Cichy (or he might just try to get ready for the NFL draft, where he's got a decent chance of being drafted). But conventional wisdom is he is highly unlikely to get a sixth year, because 2014 was 'by choice'.

                            https://www.buckys5thquarter.com/201...irt-sixth-year
                            Last edited by robertearle; 10-29-2017, 11:50 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

                              Originally posted by robertearle View Post
                              There are *countless* college athletes who choose to take a redshirt early in their college careers, and then get injured later on. Because their earlier redshirt year was by choice, they do not get a sixth year because of the injury.
                              Ehhhhhhhhh no this is not accurate. In fact this is the situation that most players who end up getting a 6th year end up in. The waiver process for the 6th year involving an injury for the 2nd redshirt year has nothing to do with the nature of the first redshirt and everything to do with the nature of the injury causing the 2nd redshirt. If a player tears an ACL and legitimately misses an entire season, they will always, always get that second redshirt. If they, like, sprain an ankle, and the team opts to sit them out for the rest of the year even though they're medically cleared to play 2/3 of the way through the season, that's another situation entirely where they might not be granted that redshirt.

                              Kessel's second redshirt is not problematic, because what her first redshirt was for has no bearing whatsoever on whether she could be granted a 6th year.

                              The major questions here, which I think are unprecedented, are (1) Is Barnes' current season counting as a "redshirt year" because she started the season, or not counting as a season at all since she's "restarting" her freshman year? I have no idea what the answer to that is. And (2) if this year is counting as a redshirt year, then if she's selected for the Olympics four years down the road, is her sixth year going to be eligible for a redshirt or not?

                              I have absolutely no idea what the answers are to this and I don't think anyone else here does either, since I don't think there is a single parallel to go off. Every other previous player who missed school for two Olympic cycles did so because they did not start their freshman year at all, and that senior year was their 5th year, not their 6th.

                              Which bring me back to -- I sure hope BC has this right, and they'd better find out ASAfreakingP, because if it turns out Barnes won't get a 6th year for 2022, then she absolutely should come back for the 2nd semester if she happens to be cut from the USWNT roster this time around.
                              Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
                              Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
                              Twitter: @Salzano14


                              Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

                              Comment


                              • Re: 2018 USA Olympic Women's Hockey Team

                                Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                                Ehhhhhhhhh no this is not accurate. In fact this is the situation that most players who end up getting a 6th year end up in. The waiver process for the 6th year involving an injury for the 2nd redshirt year has nothing to do with the nature of the first redshirt and everything to do with the nature of the injury causing the 2nd redshirt. If a player tears an ACL and legitimately misses an entire season, they will always, always get that second redshirt. If they, like, sprain an ankle, and the team opts to sit them out for the rest of the year even though they're medically cleared to play 2/3 of the way through the season, that's another situation entirely where they might not be granted that redshirt.
                                12.8.1.5.1 Waiver Criteria. A waiver of the five-year period of eligibility is designed to provide a studentathlete
                                with the opportunity to participate in four seasons of intercollegiate competition within a five-year
                                period. This waiver may be granted, based upon objective evidence, for reasons that are beyond the control
                                of the student-athlete or the institution, which deprive the student-athlete of the opportunity to participate
                                for more than one season in his or her sport within the five-year period.

                                Looks pretty clear to me. The "more than one season" must be "for reasons that are beyond the control of the student-athlete"; otherwise, no sixth year. The two cases of UW football players I mentioned are unlikely because of their two years was for a reason within their control. (Cichy is a little more iffy because he has missed more like two and a half years. though one was by choice.)
                                Last edited by robertearle; 10-30-2017, 12:03 AM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X