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Thread: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

  1. #441
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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    I get that, but more than likely a franchised JJ is renting/leasing their space, and surely the property owner (who would be on the hook not the tenant) hires people for shoveling, site maintenance, etc., right?
    You would think. There should be on-site management, even when owned by an REIT, but I'm not fully confident that those people hired are fully committed to their jobs. This is based solely upon my first-hand experience with various malls.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

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  2. #442
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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    You would think. There should be on-site management, even when owned by an REIT, but I'm not fully confident that those people hired are fully committed to their jobs. This is based solely upon my first-hand experience with various malls.
    Actually, if you think about it, the liability really should lie with the tenant and not the property owner. The owner turns over occupation of the property to the tenant. In fact, the owner may have only limited rights of access to the property once it's leased. It's the tenant who is on the property on a daily basis who has the ability to see and remedy dangerous conditions as they come up.

    Now, my experience with commercial leases tells me this is usually handled in one of two ways.

    For a lot of stand alone properties, the lease will probably just require the tenant to take care of all snow and ice removal.

    However, if the property is part of a mall, a strip mall, or a larger complex in which the owner has a number of leases with a number of different tenants, then frequently the landlord will take care of the snow and ice removal but bill all of the tenants proportionately for the cost. In those instances you could probably make the landlord liable simply because they agreed to take on the responsibility. In the absence of such agreement, however, I suspect it will be the tenant who is stuck.

    I think there is also an exception if the injury is caused by some sort of hidden defect in the property of which the tenant could not be aware, but the owner knew of it.

    Ultimately it will be insurance who pays, and usually both the landlord and tenant have some sort of insurance coverage.
    Last edited by SJHovey; 12-03-2019 at 04:41 PM.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

  3. #443
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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    I don't like 'frivolous' lawsuits, but you'd think monitoring ice accumulations on commercial property would be a standard property maintenance requirement.
    Injuries from icy conditions are difficult to win in ice and snow country, and they even more difficult if it is strictly a maintenance issue. In Wisconsin, there are applicable statutes. Sometimes what looks like a maintenance issue is really a structural one, which usually implicates the property owner and is often easier to obtain relief.

    Things are probably different in Minnesota, where owners and frequenters are less able to understand the risks involved.
    Last edited by burd; 12-03-2019 at 05:43 PM.

  4. #444
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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    Injuries from icy conditions are difficult to win in ice and snow country, and they even more difficult if it is strictly a maintenance issue. In Wisconsin, there are applicable statutes. Sometimes what looks like a maintenance issue is really a structural one, which usually implicates the property owner and is often easier to obtain relief.

    Things are probably different in Minnesota, where owners and frequenters are less able to understand the risks involved.
    Icy conditions on the ground are one thing, but if you have 50lb icicles falling from roofs, that's something else altogether. [Chorus]"That's something else."[/Chorus]
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

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    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    Injuries from icy conditions are difficult to win in ice and snow country, and they even more difficult if it is strictly a maintenance issue. In Wisconsin, there are applicable statutes. Sometimes what looks like a maintenance issue is really a structural one, which usually implicates the property owner and is often easier to obtain relief.

    Things are probably different in Minnesota, where owners and frequenters are less able to understand the risks involved.
    It's their fault I suppose for having fewer bars per block because as Wisconsin proves beer is the cause of, and the solution to all of life's problems.

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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    It's their fault I suppose for having fewer bars per block because as Wisconsin proves beer is the cause of, and the solution to all of life's problems.
    We believe that if you drink enough beer there are no problems to solve.

    Does beer worship make us pagans?
    Last edited by burd; 12-03-2019 at 05:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    We believe that if you drink enough beer there are no problems to solve.

    Does beer worship make us pagans?
    I don't know I'll defer to your expertise.

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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Holy ****. I think I just watched two people almost killed by falling ice.

    I was walking into jimmy johns and was checking my texts. I hear something above crashing and look up just in time to see about 50 lbs of ice coming down from the roof of the building. Came down between two of the three and in front of one of them. Missed by mere inches.

    My heart is still racing.
    On Saturday at Back Channel Brewing, I saw a similar, though not as drastic, issue. The sleet would fall on the tent they had for their event, freeze, and eventually would run down the top of the tent and fall off. Depending on the structure and the weather, it can be difficult to maintain. Probably talking enough to knock a person back a bit, if not down, dunno if it was enough to really injure them, though.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

  9. #449
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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    This morning was insane. Twelve jackknifed or stuck trailers within five miles of my house. I tried to get my fiancée to work in St Paul and only made it to Century on the backroads (highways were shut down).

    I was making a right turn at literally 2 mph (without any gas) and my car spun sideways and started going downhill (still sideways). There were parked cars on both sides of the road. I think I sprained by arse puckering so hard. That’s a ****ty helpless feeling having zero control. Luckily the packed snow and ice from previous storms along the parking zones acted like bowling bumpers and kept me four or five inches away from the other cars until the bottom of the hill.

    Came to a complete stop, made sure my pants were still clean, turned to my fiancée and said, “F—-k this. No way. We’re going home.”

    Got home to a stream of constant sirens for 20 minutes. Turned on the scanner and called up the highway cams. A semi slid down one of the hills next to my house on 694. They hit the trailer in front of them so hard the cab went UNDER the trailer and completely sheared the top of the cab off. Like, gone. I thought that guy was sure as **** dead. About 45 minutes later heard he made it out alive with bruises and cuts on his forearms, legs, and face. Also needed a change of pants I’m sure.

    He was within inches of having his head crushed. Took 20 minutes with the jaws of life.

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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    There were people literally ice skating on the streets earlier in the morning (around 8-9am). I ventured out (west metro) about 10:30, and there were some icy spots, but mostly the roads were just wet. Soon after, it started raining, and that took care of the rest of the ice on the road.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

  11. #451
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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Storm's a comin'...7-15" per weather.gov for the 55118 zip code:

    Friday
    Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. High near 28. Southeast wind 10 to 15 mph, with gusts as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 3 to 7 inches possible.
    Friday Night
    Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. Steady temperature around 27. Southeast wind 10 to 15 mph decreasing to 5 to 10 mph after midnight. Winds could gust as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 4 to 8 inches possible.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

    "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

  12. #452
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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Working from hone. Ain’t no way you’re getting me out in that clusterfark.

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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    Storm's a comin'...7-15" per weather.gov for the 55118 zip code:

    Friday
    Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. High near 28. Southeast wind 10 to 15 mph, with gusts as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 3 to 7 inches possible.
    Friday Night
    Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. Steady temperature around 27. Southeast wind 10 to 15 mph decreasing to 5 to 10 mph after midnight. Winds could gust as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 4 to 8 inches possible.
    Seems this storm is tracking and holding on Destination: MSP.

    I have to go somewhere Thursday but back Friday night. For some reason I picked ORD and not MSP as the layover this time. I just might duck the fringes of this one by that decision. (And with that I've cursed myself with a night at ORD. )

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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sicatoka View Post
    Seems this storm is tracking and holding on Destination: MSP.

    I have to go somewhere Thursday but back Friday night. For some reason I picked ORD and not MSP as the layover this time. I just might duck the fringes of this one by that decision. (And with that I've cursed myself with a night at ORD. )
    Ord is a real risk in winter. I always thought MSP was better, but I rarely use it.

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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    Ord is a real risk in winter. I always thought MSP was better, but I rarely use it.
    Last three December connections via MSP I got delayed. That said, not a big ORD fan either, but it's either or in this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    Storm's a comin'...7-15" per weather.gov for the 55118 zip code:

    Friday
    Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. High near 28. Southeast wind 10 to 15 mph, with gusts as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 3 to 7 inches possible.
    Friday Night
    Snow. The snow could be heavy at times. Steady temperature around 27. Southeast wind 10 to 15 mph decreasing to 5 to 10 mph after midnight. Winds could gust as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 4 to 8 inches possible.
    Saw 12-18’’ in west central MN by one projection. Definitely gonna get 6 and wind for sure.

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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Meh, shouldn't affect me, really. 7 mile commute (non-peak hours) on Fri, and about a 3 mile trek to anywhere I care to go on Sat. Plus, my neighborhood seems to get plowed instantly.

    I'm more concerned with the butt-arse cold that's coming. Ugh.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

  18. #458
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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    People are complaining on Nextdoor about snowplow drivers leaving snow at the bottom of their driveways. What, exactly, do they expect them to do? Get out and shovel everyone's driveways?

    (These people also invariably use the wrong form of "there" ))
    Last edited by jen; 01-18-2020 at 05:40 PM.

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    Re: Minnesotans Arguing About the Weather III: Storm's a comin'

    Wut

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    Quote Originally Posted by jen View Post
    People are complaining on Nextdoor about snowplow drivers leaving snow at the bottom of their driveways. What, exactly, do they expect them to do? Get out and shovel everyone's driveways?

    (These people also invariably use the wrong form of "there" ))
    I saw that last year. This week, my hood is mad that plows come by after 10pm, and that people walk on their sidewalk before they can shovel it

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