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Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

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  • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

    Today's events

    The DUP shifts position, will now support a deal.

    The Democratic Unionist party’s leader, Arlene Foster, has signaled it is ready to do a Brexit deal, indicating for the first time a willingness to accept a bespoke solution for Northern Ireland.

    She was speaking just hours before she held an “unplanned” meeting with the Irish taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, amid signs of a Brexit thaw between Belfast and Dublin.

    In a break with previous rhetoric where she has strongly opposed treating the region differently to the rest of the UK, Foster said the final deal would have to recognise Northern Ireland’s unique historical and geographical position and the fact it will be the UK’s only land border with the EU.
    Back in the Supreme Court

    In combative closing comments, Aidan O’Neill QC called on the 11 justices hearing the prorogation case to reject legal arguments advanced by the government that the courts do not have the power to intervene in the decision to prorogue parliament for five weeks.

    His speech was delivered at the end of the second day of the emergency hearing at the UK’s highest court into whether the prime minister’s advice to the Queen to suspend debates at a time of a national constitutional crisis over Brexit was lawful.

    “What we have with this prorogation is the mother of parliaments closed down by the father of lies,” declared O’Neill, who had won his claim in the Scottish courts. “Lies have consequences but the truth will set us free. Rather than allow lies to triumph, this court should listen to the angels of its better nature and rule that this prorogation is an unlawful abuse of the power of prorogation which has been entrusted to the government.
    “This government has proved itself unworthy of our trust as it uses the power [of its] office ... which is corrosive of the constitution and destructive of the system of parliamentary democracy on which our union polity is founded. Enough is enough. Dismiss this appeal and let them know that. This is what truth speaking to power sounds like.”

    In contrast with other lawyers who addressed the supreme court this week through detailed reference to past cases and subsections of legislations, O’Neill adopted a centuries-long historical perspective and an emotive approach to the nature of the UK’s constitution.

    Urging judges not to make this a “Dred Scott moment” – referring to the landmark 1857 US supreme court case that affirmed slave owners’ rights and paved the way to the civil war – O’Neill urged the court to “stand up for truth, stand up for reasons, stand up for unity in diversity, stand up for democracy”.

    The justices should dismiss the government’s appeal against the ruling by the inner house of Scotland’s court of session by “upholding a constitution governed by laws not by the passing whims of men”, he said.
    In written submissions, Lord Garnier QC, representing the former prime minister John Major, said it would be remarkable if the courts took the view “that there is nothing in law to prevent a prime minister from proroguing parliament in any circumstances or for any reason”.

    He added: “The fact that there are constitutional safeguards which operate on the well-intentioned [prime minister] is no reason for the courts to reject any possibility of intervening even in other cases.”
    Meanwhile, the police in Northern Ireland want no part of border checkpoints between Ireland and NI (which, as a reminder, is a violation of international law and a war crime)

    Northern Ireland’s chief constable has said his police officers could be killed if they had to patrol border checkpoints in the event of a hard Brexit.

    Simon Byrne told the Guardian he opposed officers having to patrol checkpoints on a physical border between Northern Ireland and the Republic and said officers who were already under huge strain would be placed in danger policing any checkpoints.

    The Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) has faced a number of recent attempts by dissident republicans to kill its officers and Byrne said only “luck” had prevented a murder, and he feared that could run out.

    The chief constable, who took up his post in July, said: “People do not want a return to the images of 20-30 years ago, where, frankly, history shows us that far more police officers and 20,000 soldiers could not protect the border, so I doubt we are going to do it now.

    “We are very clear here. We do not support the establishment of checkpoints or monitoring cameras right near the border and we’d be very reluctant to be drawn there because of the threat to our officers.”
    Stories came from The Guardian

    Meanwhile, the EU Council voted overwhelmingly to approve an extension if the UK were to ask.

    Comment


    • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

      What's the DUP switch about? Did they get a little sumthin sumthin under the table?
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      • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

        How can that possibly be a war crime to refuse to honor the checkpoint?
        Code:
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        Originally posted by SanTropez
        May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
        Originally posted by bigblue_dl
        I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
        Originally posted by Kepler
        When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
        He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

        Comment


        • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
          How can that possibly be a war crime to refuse to honor the checkpoint?
          Maybe he meant a violation of the truce?
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          • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

            I think maybe the concept of a checkpoint is a violation. Not the police refusing?
            Code:
            As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
            College Hockey 6       College Football 0
            BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
            Originally posted by SanTropez
            May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
            Originally posted by bigblue_dl
            I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
            Originally posted by Kepler
            When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
            He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

            Comment


            • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

              Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
              How can that possibly be a war crime to refuse to honor the checkpoint?
              As I understand it, the war crime would be putting up any type of barrier or checkpoint on the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. That is a key part of the Good Friday Agreement. There is also the argument that the UK would be unilaterally denying access to the European Court of Justice and freedom of movement for all the citizens of NI that consider themselves Irish citizens. That was also part of the GFA. Citizens of NI were able to get a passport from Ireland (not a big deal since they were all Europeans) and this act would end that. The freedom of movement might be allayed if you have an Irish passport (applications for passports more than trebled in the 12 months after the referendum) but they would still be denied access to the Court.

              No deal Brexit violates UK law, European treaties and the Good Friday Agreement (a legally binding international law) which is quite a trifecta. And BoJo and his pals are about to do it.

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              What's the DUP switch about? Did they get a little sumthin sumthin under the table?
              I doubt it. They desperately want a deal - any deal - that they can at least claim abides by the Good Friday Agreement. As Juncker said yesterday, the risk of a no deal Brexit is palpable. If that happens not only will the island descend into chaos as The Troubles Part II kick off, but you're essentially jump starting the Unite Ireland referendum years earlier than it would otherwise happen. It is inevitable, but the current leadership of the DUP would prefer it happen on someone else's watch.

              Comment


              • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

                As always. Thanks
                Code:
                As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                Originally posted by SanTropez
                May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                Originally posted by Kepler
                When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                Comment


                • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

                  Originally posted by ticapnews View Post
                  As Juncker said yesterday, the risk of a no deal Brexit is palpable. If that happens not only will the island descend into chaos as The Troubles Part II kick off
                  Why is this inevitable? Did the Irish get tired of having their children grow up with all their limbs?

                  Can't every woman in Ireland say, "We know you lads are morons but you're not getting another sniff, ever, if you start your bullsh-t again. So help me I'll pull the Polish plumber if it comes to it, and nár chuire Dia ar do leas thú."?
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                  • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

                    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                    Why is this inevitable? Did the Irish get tired of having their children grow up with all their limbs?

                    Can't every woman in Ireland say, "We know you lads are morons but you're not getting another sniff, ever, if you start your bullsh-t again. So help me I'll pull the Polish plumber if it comes to it, and nár chuire Dia ar do leas thú."?
                    "Some men just want to watch the world burn."

                    Or to quote another film: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.

                    If the checkpoints return, the UK will have to also build walls. Those walls will have to be guarded by men with guns - and targets on their backs.

                    Let's put it this way. Imagine you're a citizen of New York. How would you feel if one morning you woke up and there was suddenly a checkpoint between you and your job and that checkpoint was manned by members of the Alabama National Guard? And to make sure you had to go through that checkpoint, a giant wall had been erected.

                    Now, I suppose the UK and EU could decide not to build checkpoints and walls and have men with guns, but what's the point of a border if people and goods can just cross it freely? I guess both sides could decide to forgo the tax revenue they would collect when goods move from one entity to the other, but considering one of the main goals of Brexit is to abolish EU standards in the UK, it doesn't make any sense for the EU to have an open border with the UK that allows - for instance - chlorinated chicken onto the continent when it has been banned.

                    It sounds like the DUP is willing to accept a border in the North Irish Sea instead of between Ireland and NI - a move that was previously unacceptable because it would break NI from the rest of the UK when it comes to trade, freedom of movement, etc. But it would be preferable to a hard border on the island.
                    Last edited by ticapnews; 09-18-2019, 10:35 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

                      Sounds like things are not going well in court for BoJo and the Government.
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                      • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

                        Day Three

                        Lawyers for former Conservative Prime Minister John Major will say the court shouldn’t believe Johnson’s public comments on his reasons for proroguing Parliament, even going so far as to say the court would be “naive” to do so. Johnson, who leads the same party, has long argued that he suspended Parliament to kick off a new domestic agenda, while his legal opponents say he did it to stymie the legislature ahead of Brexit.

                        In documents prepared for trial, Major’s lawyer, Edward Garnier, focused on the lack of a government witness statement to support its position -- something the judges have also questioned.

                        “The court is under no obligation to approach this case on the artificially naive basis that the handful of disclosed documents, the contents of which nobody has been prepared to verify with a statement of truth, should nevertheless be assumed to be entirely accurate and complete,” he wrote.
                        The Lib Dems are now ahead of Labour.

                        The Liberal Democrats leapfrogged the main opposition Labour Party in a poll of voting intention published late Wednesday.

                        The party, which held its conference this week, has agreed to revoke Article 50 -- blocking Brexit -- if it wins the next election.

                        The YouGov survey for the Times newspaper saw Boris Johnson’s Conservatives unchanged on 32% of the vote, the Liberal Democrats on 23% -- up four points on the week before -- and Labour down two points on 21%.
                        Even if the Court acts, BoJo says he may just prorogue Parliament again.

                        The government told the Supreme Court that it would still consider suspending Parliament a second time -- even if it loses the current case.

                        “Depending on the court’s reasoning it would still either be open or not open to the prime minister to consider a further prorogation,” according to the document, which was tweeted by opposition lawyer Jolyon Maugham.

                        This is a question that has been repeatedly put to government lawyers over the last two days. The government also said that it can’t reveal its position until the court has given a full ruling.
                        EU negotiator Barnier to meet with Labour

                        EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier will meet Labour MPs Stephen Kinnock and Caroline Flint in Brussels on Thursday, after he asked to discuss their cross-party campaign to get a Brexit deal through Parliament.

                        “Despite the political rhetoric, much of the withdrawal agreement is not contentious, it was the lack of clarity over the future relationship which was the sticking point,” Kinnock said in a statement. Theresa May’s deal with the EU “provides a solid and realistic basis on which to build in order to reach a compromise that can pass in the Commons and avert a catastrophic no-deal crash-out.”

                        The politicians, who lead the “MPs for a Deal” group in Parliament, say they want the U.K. to leave with a divorce agreement and are trying to help broker one that can pass through the House of Commons.
                        Expect a ruling from the Court next week

                        The Supreme Court will aim to announce its ruling on Boris Johnson’s suspension of Parliament “early next week,” President Brenda Hale said at the close of three days of hearings.

                        “None of this is easy,” she said. “We will have to decide what the answer is and we will have to decide one way or the other what the consequences are.”

                        Comment


                        • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

                          Originally posted by Jimjamesak View Post
                          Sounds like things are not going well in court for BoJo and the Government.
                          It is becoming clear they have a tinpot dictator on their hands. The queen might have to step in because he might ignore Parliament AND the Courts.

                          Fortunately the queen has experience fighting dictators.
                          Last edited by ticapnews; 09-19-2019, 10:36 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

                            UK: We want a unicorn!
                            EU: Unicorns aren't real.
                            UK: We want a unicorn!
                            EU: How about a pony?
                            UK: We want a unicorn!
                            EU: A white one, then?
                            UK: We want a unicorn!
                            EU: Look, do you want a pony or not?
                            UK: We want a unicorn!
                            EU: *sigh*

                            Comment


                            • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

                              Originally posted by ticapnews View Post
                              UK: We want a unicorn!
                              EU: Unicorns aren't real.
                              UK: We want a unicorn!
                              EU: How about a pony?
                              UK: We want a unicorn!
                              EU: A white one, then?
                              UK: We want a unicorn!
                              EU: Look, do you want a pony or not?
                              UK: We want a unicorn!
                              EU: *sigh*
                              Is this yours? It's great.
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                              • Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

                                Originally posted by ticapnews View Post
                                It is becoming clear they have a tinpot dictator on their hands. The queen might have to step in because he might ignore Parliament AND the Courts.

                                Fortunately the queen has experience fighting dictators.
                                Can she help us with ours?
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