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Thread: Average Men's Attendance

  1. #181
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    There is a lot to that, but the Wild and Vikings don't have a problem selling out and although I haven't looked I'm sure the Wolves have healthy ticket sales. Also men's BB at UM does quite well. Remember that when the Wild started the Gophers still had a waiting list for season tickets and iirc the licensing fees (or whatever they're called) weren't anywhere near what they are now. And consider that in 2001-2004 the Gophers had a very healthy string of results in the NCAA playoffs (or I guess an OT loss to Maine in 2001 I believe) before B2B and a few wins in 2004. The WCHA was also at peak level including the Frozen Five tournament.

    It will most likely never get back to what it was when there was a waiting list, but they have to get smarter and if they do there's no reason they can't fill at least 75-80% on a regular basis.
    That game in 2001 was incredible. Schutte(the player Piotkowski called the bogus penalty on in OT in 2002) scored with literally two seconds left to tie it and then Hauser misplayed the puck in OT right to Liscak's stick for an empty net tap in. That was Shawn's final win. Has anyone ever seen any video of that game? I was there but have never even seen highlights afterwards.
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    Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

  2. #182
    2009 NCAA Champions Sean Pickett's Avatar
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    On the BU thread there has been some talk about how BUís attendance has been decreasing the past few seasons and this season its average is below 3,000. Three years ago there was also discussion about declining attendance and I researched every teamís attendance as far back as I could find. For most that was back to the 2001-02 season from the USCHO website, but for some I found information back to the mid-fifties. I created a spreadsheet then which I have updated with attendance through games played last night, 12 December.

    I highlighted highest known, lowest known and lowest known in current building (I may have missed a few of these) average attendance (light green for highest, pink for lowest and pale yellow for lowest current). Five teams currently have their lowest ever average attendance to date this season (not including UAA, which moved to a smaller arena, or SLU, which is temporarily playing in a smaller arena) while another ten currently have their lowest current building average attendance, while just three have a new highest average to date. Furthermore another 22 teams have seen average attendance decreases this season, for 37 having declining attendance from last season, 22 which have had declining attendance for two or more consecutive seasons, plus UAA and SLU (which have each had declining attendance for the previous 2 and 3 consecutive seasons). Average attendance for 45 teams is lower than it was 5 seasons ago (including UAA and SLU), while it is higher for just 15 teams. Overall combined average attendance is down for the ninth consecutive season and is at an all-time low.

    Sean
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  3. #183
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    My kids tell me they would rather watch somebody play video games on Youtube than watch sports in person or on television.
    Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
    dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
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  4. #184
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by 4four4 View Post
    My kids tell me they would rather watch somebody play video games on Youtube than watch sports in person or on television.
    This is an absolutely true statement. My son says that and he plays hockey. Maybe I am an old fart but I really can't understand it. I can understand the fun of playing video games but watching a bunch of geeks play video games is beyond me. I fear for the next generation and for sports in general. I think the days of giant TV contracts for the big sports (hockey in US really hasn't ever had one) are gone.

  5. #185
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    I wonder to what extent the wide availability of streamed games affects attendance. I'm an old fart myself, but I often find myself streaming games at home vs. traveling to them these days.

  6. #186
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightnut View Post
    I can understand the fun of playing video games but watching a bunch of geeks play video games is beyond me.
    I also don't understand the appeal. But yet, on another level, I do.

    At root, is watching a video game being played all that different from watching an athletic competition being played? You're still watching experts performing a series challenging tasks to advance a particular goal, using skill born from extensive practice and continuous refinement. People have always done thus, from gladiator bouts to jousting competitions to chess matches.

    And please don't be dismissive of "a bunch of geeks". That's as backward and as unhelpful as chalking hockey up to "a bunch of jocks playing games".


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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by LtPowers View Post
    I also don't understand the appeal. But yet, on another level, I do.

    At root, is watching a video game being played all that different from watching an athletic competition being played? You're still watching experts performing a series challenging tasks to advance a particular goal, using skill born from extensive practice and continuous refinement. People have always done thus, from gladiator bouts to jousting competitions to chess matches.

    And please don't be dismissive of "a bunch of geeks". That's as backward and as unhelpful as chalking hockey up to "a bunch of jocks playing games".


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    Sorry. I didn't know the PC police were on the case here. I didn't realize geek was no longer allowed. I should have said nerd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Pickett View Post
    On the BU thread there has been some talk about how BUís attendance has been decreasing the past few seasons and this season its average is below 3,000. Three years ago there was also discussion about declining attendance and I researched every teamís attendance as far back as I could find. For most that was back to the 2001-02 season from the USCHO website, but for some I found information back to the mid-fifties. I created a spreadsheet then which I have updated with attendance through games played last night, 12 December.

    I highlighted highest known, lowest known and lowest known in current building (I may have missed a few of these) average attendance (light green for highest, pink for lowest and pale yellow for lowest current). Five teams currently have their lowest ever average attendance to date this season (not including UAA, which moved to a smaller arena, or SLU, which is temporarily playing in a smaller arena) while another ten currently have their lowest current building average attendance, while just three have a new highest average to date. Furthermore another 22 teams have seen average attendance decreases this season, for 37 having declining attendance from last season, 22 which have had declining attendance for two or more consecutive seasons, plus UAA and SLU (which have each had declining attendance for the previous 2 and 3 consecutive seasons). Average attendance for 45 teams is lower than it was 5 seasons ago (including UAA and SLU), while it is higher for just 15 teams. Overall combined average attendance is down for the ninth consecutive season and is at an all-time low.

    Sean
    Thanks for the work on the spreadsheet! So much interesting data, like St. Louis averaging over 7,500/game for a season.

    As a BG guy, and thus a MAC fan, one omission stuck out: Kent State. I donít remember the lifespan of their program, but Nancy Cartwright was the universityís president who killed that program. Years later, as president at Bowling Green, she tried to do the same thing to Falcon hockey. BGís saving grace was that they had, and obviously still have, a strong history and influential alumni. I remember the joy surrounding Bowling Green hockey when Cartwright retired.

    I donít mean to nitpick! Kent State hockey certainly isnít something even a diehard college hockey guy is expected to recall. Lol

  9. #189
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightnut View Post
    Sorry. I didn't know the PC police were on the case here. I didn't realize geek was no longer allowed. I should have said nerd.
    +1

    Generation Z, which emerged from the womb with some sort of device in their slimy little hands, are today's undergrads. And because their life experiences are almost exclusively video and social media (and the shorter attention spans that come with it), they are indifferent--at best--to spectator sports, especially in urban centers like Boston, where there are almost limitless things competing for their time, attention, and dad's $$$$.

    And it's not just college hockey, or college sports in general, that finds itself dealing with lots of empty seats. The Washington Redskins have been selling seats for as little as $14!! Several folks I know in the sports marketing biz tell me that the revenue model at the pro level is shifting to maximize revenue from advertising (look for more European-style uniforms festooned with corporate logos) and corporate-sponsored luxury boxes and club seats (with all of the pricey food and other amenities that come with them). The cheap seats apparently have become less important in the revenue calculus.

    The empty seats in college hockey arenas notwithstanding, games that some consider "experiences" continue to do well. Case in point: Northeastern, which ranks toward the bottom in Hockey East attendance will sell up to ten full student sections at TD Garden for the Beanpot. Alums turn out in droves. BU and BC too. Still hard to find Harvard fans. And events that don't depend on student attendance also seem to do well: Red Hot Hockey (BU-Cornell at Madison Sq Garden) drew more than 15K. And the Friendship Four, in Belfast, Northern Ireland, sold out the championship game (about 8K) and drew about 6K for each of the preliminary games.

    Brave new sports marketing world.
    Last edited by Split-N; 12-14-2019 at 10:10 AM.
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  10. #190
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by 4four4 View Post
    My kids tell me they would rather watch somebody play video games on Youtube than watch sports in person or on television.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rightnut View Post
    This is an absolutely true statement. My son says that and he plays hockey. Maybe I am an old fart but I really can't understand it. I can understand the fun of playing video games but watching a bunch of geeks play video games is beyond me. I fear for the next generation and for sports in general. I think the days of giant TV contracts for the big sports (hockey in US really hasn't ever had one) are gone.
    Quote Originally Posted by LtPowers View Post
    I also don't understand the appeal. But yet, on another level, I do.

    At root, is watching a video game being played all that different from watching an athletic competition being played? You're still watching experts performing a series challenging tasks to advance a particular goal, using skill born from extensive practice and continuous refinement. People have always done thus, from gladiator bouts to jousting competitions to chess matches.
    Quite true and there are a lot of articles online about the live stream viewing numbers for tournaments. Several of the articles mention live viewing numbers in the tens of millions, including one tournament which had 200 million live viewers at once. And most of these tournaments also have live fans watching in person at the venue.

    Sean
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman'81 View Post
    I wonder to what extent the wide availability of streamed games affects attendance. I'm an old fart myself, but I often find myself streaming games at home vs. traveling to them these days.
    As do at least a few BU fans who still post here. Personally, I still go to all home games (unless they conflict with my daughter's games) as I prefer to be there in person and to be able to see everything. However, I have stopped going to away games due to attending my daughter's hockey games, BU women's hockey home games and the cost and time it takes to get to away games.

    Sean
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    Quote Originally Posted by Split-N View Post
    +1

    Generation Z, which emerged from the womb with some sort of device in their slimy little hands, are today's undergrads. And because their life experiences are almost exclusively video and social media (and the shorter attention spans that come with it), they are indifferent--at best--to spectator sports, especially in urban centers like Boston, where there are almost limitless things competing for their time, attention, and dad's $$$$.

    And it's not just college hockey, or college sports in general, that finds itself dealing with lots of empty seats. The Washington Redskins have been selling seats for as little as $14!! Several folks I know in the sports marketing biz tell me that the revenue model at the pro level is shifting to maximize revenue from advertising (look for more European-style uniforms festooned with corporate logos) and corporate-sponsored luxury boxes and club seats (with all of the pricey food and other amenities that come with them). The cheap seats apparently have become less important in the revenue calculus.

    The empty seats in college hockey arenas notwithstanding, games that some consider "experiences" continue to do well. Case in point: Northeastern, which ranks toward the bottom in Hockey East attendance will sell up to ten full student sections at TD Garden for the Beanpot. Alums turn out in droves. BU and BC too. Still hard to find Harvard fans. And events that don't depend on student attendance also seem to do well: Red Hot Hockey (BU-Cornell at Madison Sq Garden) drew more than 15K. And the Friendship Four, in Belfast, Northern Ireland, sold out the championship game (about 8K) and drew about 6K for each of the preliminary games.

    Brave new sports marketing world.

  13. #193
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by BG816 View Post
    Thanks for the work on the spreadsheet! So much interesting data, like St. Louis averaging over 7,500/game for a season.

    As a BG guy, and thus a MAC fan, one omission stuck out: Kent State. I donít remember the lifespan of their program, but Nancy Cartwright was the universityís president who killed that program. Years later, as president at Bowling Green, she tried to do the same thing to Falcon hockey. BGís saving grace was that they had, and obviously still have, a strong history and influential alumni. I remember the joy surrounding Bowling Green hockey when Cartwright retired.

    I donít mean to nitpick! Kent State hockey certainly isnít something even a diehard college hockey guy is expected to recall. Lol
    Thank you as well.

    As for Kent State hockey, I started researching the history of the now defunct and lesser know varsity hockey programs many years ago, starting with the west coast teams of the thirties: USC, UCLA, Occidental, California and Gonzaga to name some.Then two years ago I starting researching programs from the seventies and eighties, including Kent State. I gave the information I found about these teams' games, including Kent State, to Adam Wooden which he put online on CHN. However, the main source of my research for KSU, The Daily Kent Stater, usually didn't have box scores and the weekend recaps in the newspaper usually didn't mention attendance (nor was I actively researching attendance, just game dates, opponents, locations and results).

    BTW, KSU the hockey program gained varsity status beginning with the 1980-81 season (when they played as a DII team) and dropped it after the 1993-94 season (after 2 seasons in the CCHA).

    Sean
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    There is a lot to that, but the Wild and Vikings don't have a problem selling out and although I haven't looked I'm sure the Wolves have healthy ticket sales. Also men's BB at UM does quite well. Remember that when the Wild started the Gophers still had a waiting list for season tickets and iirc the licensing fees (or whatever they're called) weren't anywhere near what they are now. And consider that in 2001-2004 the Gophers had a very healthy string of results in the NCAA playoffs (or I guess an OT loss to Maine in 2001 I believe) before B2B and a few wins in 2004. The WCHA was also at peak level including the Frozen Five tournament.

    It will most likely never get back to what it was when there was a waiting list, but they have to get smarter and if they do there's no reason they can't fill at least 75-80% on a regular basis.
    My two cents on the Gophers' hockey attendance: When I matriculated to Minnesota for law school in 2004, I signed up for the hockey season ticket waiting list just in case I stuck around after graduating. I recall that my number was in the 3000s. In late spring 2010 (I think, maybe the year before), I got an email saying that I could purchase season tickets. I soon saw why: prices had been raised and most seats required an additional donation of $250 to $500 per season, per seat. The instant vanishing of the waiting list made it clear that fans had revolted. I believe that decision, combined with the move to the Big Ten, which disrupted longstanding (and well-attended) annual rivalries with UMD, UND, SCSU, and Mankato has had a lasting negative impact on the current attendance figures. A lack of relevance in post-season play has only compounded the problem.

    Student indifference to attendance at sporting events is a perennial problem now for most schools, but I have to say that Minnesota always had issues here, and not just with hockey.

    I think the first step to improving attendance should be dropping the additional per-seat donations for season ticket holders. I understand they have been lowered recently, but they should be completely abolished.
    Last edited by DavidNardolillo; 12-14-2019 at 06:01 PM. Reason: hit "submit" too soon!

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimjamesak View Post
    You're a clever little guy
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidNardolillo View Post
    My two cents on the Gophers' hockey attendance: When I matriculated to Minnesota for law school in 2004, I signed up for the hockey season ticket waiting list just in case I stuck around after graduating. I recall that my number was in the 3000s. In late spring 2010 (I think, maybe the year before), I got an email saying that I could purchase season tickets. I soon saw why: prices had been raised and most seats required an additional donation of $250 to $500 per season, per seat. The instant vanishing of the waiting list made it clear that fans had revolted. I believe that decision, combined with the move to the Big Ten, which disrupted longstanding (and well-attended) annual rivalries with UMD, UND, SCSU, and Mankato has had a lasting negative impact on the current attendance figures. A lack of relevance in post-season play has only compounded the problem.

    Student indifference to attendance at sporting events is a perennial problem now for most schools, but I have to say that Minnesota always had issues here, and not just with hockey.

    I think the first step to improving attendance should be dropping the additional per-seat donations for season ticket holders. I understand they have been lowered recently, but they should be completely abolished.
    I think it had more to do with seating reassignment, the big ten, and ****ty performance. The prices hurt. A lot. But it wasnít just pricing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BG816 View Post
    Thanks for the work on the spreadsheet! So much interesting data, like St. Louis averaging over 7,500/game for a season.

    As a BG guy, and thus a MAC fan, one omission stuck out: Kent State. I donít remember the lifespan of their program, but Nancy Cartwright was the universityís president who killed that program. Years later, as president at Bowling Green, she tried to do the same thing to Falcon hockey. BGís saving grace was that they had, and obviously still have, a strong history and influential alumni. I remember the joy surrounding Bowling Green hockey when Cartwright retired.

    I donít mean to nitpick! Kent State hockey certainly isnít something even a diehard college hockey guy is expected to recall. Lol
    You might want to do a little more research on the BG situation. Your "facts" are a little twisted up.

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    I think it had more to do with seating reassignment, the big ten, and ****ty performance. The prices hurt. A lot. But it wasnít just pricing.
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Split-N View Post
    You're a clever little guy
    No, Iím just a geek who likes YouTube and video games.

  20. #200
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightnut View Post
    Sorry. I didn't know the PC police were on the case here. I didn't realize geek was no longer allowed. I should have said nerd.
    What's the matter? Did a nerd beat you at chess in high school?


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