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Thread: Average Men's Attendance

  1. #201
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidNardolillo View Post
    My two cents on the Gophers' hockey attendance: When I matriculated to Minnesota for law school in 2004, I signed up for the hockey season ticket waiting list just in case I stuck around after graduating. I recall that my number was in the 3000s. In late spring 2010 (I think, maybe the year before), I got an email saying that I could purchase season tickets. I soon saw why: prices had been raised and most seats required an additional donation of $250 to $500 per season, per seat. The instant vanishing of the waiting list made it clear that fans had revolted. I believe that decision, combined with the move to the Big Ten, which disrupted longstanding (and well-attended) annual rivalries with UMD, UND, SCSU, and Mankato has had a lasting negative impact on the current attendance figures. A lack of relevance in post-season play has only compounded the problem.

    Student indifference to attendance at sporting events is a perennial problem now for most schools, but I have to say that Minnesota always had issues here, and not just with hockey.

    I think the first step to improving attendance should be dropping the additional per-seat donations for season ticket holders. I understand they have been lowered recently, but they should be completely abolished.
    Very well said!
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    I blame HDTV as well. The first time I saw an NFL game in HD, I knew Iíd never attend a game in person again. College sports were once a way for someone to watch a game and follow a team at a lower price point than the pros. Now if watching the Wild in your living room is actually as good or better than watching in person, why go out to a college game at all? Thereís a high def pro game right in your living room.

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer View Post
    I blame HDTV as well. The first time I saw an NFL game in HD, I knew Iíd never attend a game in person again. College sports were once a way for someone to watch a game and follow a team at a lower price point than the pros. Now if watching the Wild in your living room is actually as good or better than watching in person, why go out to a college game at all? Thereís a high def pro game right in your living room.
    Very true, and a growing problem for attendance everywhere.

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Are we ignoring the fact that "first to three wins" games are pretty dull?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfmorris View Post
    Are we ignoring the fact that "first to three wins" games are pretty dull?

    GFM
    I wish someone had explained that ďfirst one to 3 ruleĒ to Providence last March.

    But yes, I agree with you that a grab and clutch, 2-1 game is not exactly great entertainment

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by gfmorris View Post
    Are we ignoring the fact that "first to three wins" games are pretty dull?

    GFM
    Stats by themselves stats really can't identify if a game is entertaining or dull, but I don't think that its true for most games. That said, I have been working on obtaining more granular stats about scoring in games to try and determine if the first to 3 goals is truly the best possible stat to use. This season there have been 497 games (excluding exhibitions) through today (22 December) and 401 of them have had at least one team score 3+ goals (80.7%), while just 110 have had both teams score 3+ goals (22.1%). The overall record for the first team to score three goals is 359-19-23 0.924, but of the 110 games in which both teams scored 3+ goals the record for the team that scored the third goal first is just 68-19-23 0.723. A further breakdown of scoring shows that a 3-0 lead is near insurmountable (126-1-4 0.977)*, while a 3-1 (145-9-9 0.917) and 3-2 (88-9-10 0.869) lead are also pretty hard to overcome. Another 26 teams that trailed (3 by 3-0, 9 by 3-1 and 14 by 3-2) were able to tie the game up before ultimately losing, and one team was able to take a 4-3 lead after trailing 3-2 before losing 5-4.

    Quote Originally Posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
    I wish someone had explained that “first one to 3 rule” to Providence last March.

    But yes, I agree with you that a grab and clutch, 2-1 game is not exactly great entertainment
    Providence had already learned the exception to the rule two weeks before when they overcame a 3-1 BC lead in game 1 of the HE quarterfinals and then lost after leading 3-2 in game 2 of the HE quarterfinals. Providence also lost a game (4-3 to BU) after leading 3-2, and were tied twice after taking a 3-1 lead during the regular season. Maybe Minnesota State should have paid attention to the fact that Providence was well aware that scoring the third goal first didn't guarantee a win.

    Sean

    * UAH is the only team this season to lose after leading a game 3-0 (UAH did win the only other game that they lead 3-0). BU is one of the 4 (along with Bemidji, the only team to not win after taking a 4-0 lead) to end in a tie after leading 3-0.
    Last edited by Sean Pickett; 12-22-2019 at 10:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Pickett View Post
    Stats by themselves stats really can't identify if a game is entertaining or dull, but I don't think that its true for most games. That said, I have been working on obtaining more granular stats about scoring in games to try and determine if the first to 3 goals is truly the best possible stat to use. This season there have been 497 games (excluding exhibitions) through today (22 December) and 401 of them have had at least one team score 3+ goals (80.7%), while just 110 have had both teams score 3+ goals (22.1%). The overall record for the first team to score three goals is 359-19-23 0.924, but of the 110 games in which both teams scored 3+ goals the record for the team that scored the third goal first is just 68-19-23 0.723. A further breakdown of scoring shows that a 3-0 lead is near insurmountable (126-1-4 0.977)*, while a 3-1 (145-9-9 0.917) and 3-2 (88-9-10 0.869) lead are also pretty hard to overcome. Another 26 teams that trailed (3 by 3-0, 9 by 3-1 and 14 by 3-2) were able to tie the game up before ultimately losing, and one team was able to take a 4-3 lead after trailing 3-2 before losing 5-4.

    Providence had already learned the exception to the rule two weeks before when they overcame a 3-1 BC lead in game 1 of the HE quarterfinals and then lost after leading 3-2 in game 2 of the HE quarterfinals. Providence also lost a game (4-3 to BU) after leading 3-2, and were tied twice after taking a 3-1 lead during the regular season. Maybe Minnesota State should have paid attention to the fact that Providence was well aware that scoring the third goal first didn't guarantee a win.

    Sean

    * UAH is the only team this season to lose after leading a game 3-0 (UAH did win the only other game that they lead 3-0). BU is one of the 4 (along with Bemidji, the only team to not win after taking a 4-0 lead) to end in a tie after leading 3-0.
    Excellent stats! Thanks, Sean.

    I still enjoy attending college hockey games in person for socializing with friends that I do lot see much otherwise.

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    2009 NCAA Champions Sean Pickett's Avatar
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    Excellent stats! Thanks, Sean.

    I still enjoy attending college hockey games in person for socializing with friends that I do lot see much otherwise.
    Thanks, I have quite a few more stats that show that the 'first to 3' is one of the best indicators, but I'm working on other expanding the information from other seasons I already researched and I also want to research additional seasons. One stat that I have looked at (and is easy to research and compile) which actually may play a factor in attendance is home team records. This season home teams have only a 53% winning percentage (231-202-54), the lowest of any season I've researched:
    1975-76 - 345-205-18, 0.623
    1984-85 - 502-315-34, 0.610
    1987-88 - 519-294-47, 0.631
    1998-99 - 521-349-89, 0.590
    2008-09 - 525-363-123, 0.580
    2012-13 - 527-380-130, 0.571
    2013-14 - 525-393-107, 0.564
    2014-15 - 526-389-107, 0.567
    2015-16 - 512-388-136, 0.560
    2016-17 - 511-411-122, 0.548
    2017-18 - 540-414-115, 0.559
    2018-19 - 542-409-100, 0.563
    2019-20 - 231-202-54, 0.530

    It's only a rough correlation with lower attendance, but does point to a possible contributing factor. Each team's home record vs attendance would have to be looked at to see if there is a correlation at a team level.

    Sean
    Last edited by Sean Pickett; 12-23-2019 at 07:13 PM.

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Itís more complicated than that. Obviously. You have to look at the choices fans have relative to the population.

    The twin cities has every imaginable sports team for a market. All four big pro teams; pro soccer; D1 football, basketball, womenís basketball, womenís volleyball, menís hockey; the highest theaters per capita outside of New York City. The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of Chicago. A robust high school hockey community maybe only rivaled by Texas football and Indiana basketball. All while only being a fraction the size the other markets who have anything remotely similar. NYC, Boston, LA, Dallas/FW, Houston, Chicago.

    How do you evaluate menís attendance with record without looking at how the entertainment economy has evolved in that market? Almost impossible.


    All of that said, I would be moderately shocked to find there isnít a medium to strong correlation between winning percent vs attendance when grouped by completion with other entertainment options. Minnesota used to be one of the crowns in college football. We havenít won **** since the Vikings came to town and sucked every dollar out of football spending.

    ETA: Another thing that might be interesting is factors like distance to average opponent. Length of time in a conference. Cost of tickets.

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    It’s more complicated than that. Obviously. You have to look at the choices fans have relative to the population.

    The twin cities has every imaginable sports team for a market. All four big pro teams; pro soccer; D1 football, basketball, women’s basketball, women’s volleyball, men’s hockey; the highest theaters per capita outside of New York City. The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of Chicago. A robust high school hockey community maybe only rivaled by Texas football and Indiana basketball. All while only being a fraction the size the other markets who have anything remotely similar. NYC, Boston, LA, Dallas/FW, Houston, Chicago.

    How do you evaluate men’s attendance with record without looking at how the entertainment economy has evolved in that market? Almost impossible.


    All of that said, I would be moderately shocked to find there isn’t a medium to strong correlation between winning percent vs attendance when grouped by completion with other entertainment options. Minnesota used to be one of the crowns in college football. We haven’t won **** since the Vikings came to town and sucked every dollar out of football spending.

    ETA: Another thing that might be interesting is factors like distance to average opponent. Length of time in a conference. Cost of tickets.

    It seems like a bit of a cop out for those schools in a large metro area. I get there are more options, but there are also more people for each of those options to pull from. For example, if you consider that the Gophers current average attendance is 8283 (yes, I know that's tickets counted not seats occupied, but that's the only consistent state we have to go on for all teams nationally. That's roughly 0.25% of the population of the MSP metro area. Compare that to UND which has a average attendance of 11,171 (or 10.9% of the population). Or Mankato which is at 4,484 (4.4% of the population). Generally speaking, the amount of options available are comparable with the level of population. I understand that options may have something to do with it, but it seems like that's a convenient excuse for MN.
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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by Bale View Post
    It seems like a bit of a cop out for those schools in a large metro area. I get there are more options, but there are also more people for each of those options to pull from. For example, if you consider that the Gophers current average attendance is 8283 (yes, I know that's tickets counted not seats occupied, but that's the only consistent state we have to go on for all teams nationally. That's roughly 0.25% of the population of the MSP metro area. Compare that to UND which has a average attendance of 11,171 (or 10.9% of the population). Or Mankato which is at 4,484 (4.4% of the population). Generally speaking, the amount of options available are comparable with the level of population. I understand that options may have something to do with it, but it seems like that's a convenient excuse for MN.
    How is that a cop out? If thereís one restaurant in town, itís going to be packed. If thereís a thousand, maybe not so much.

    Small towns like Grand Forks and Mankato that have absolutely nothing to compete with for entertainment dollars are going to be much more packed. Doubly so in states like North Dakota where there are no professional sports within six hours of their population centers.

    Why does Nebraska football continue to sell out despite being absolutely horse ****? Because they donít compete with anything for money.

    Competition, winning %, ticket prices. These are the three primary factors, in no particular order. High cost, playing poorly, and high competition all work against the gophers attendance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Itís more complicated than that. Obviously. You have to look at the choices fans have relative to the population.

    The twin cities has every imaginable sports team for a market. All four big pro teams; pro soccer; D1 football, basketball, womenís basketball, womenís volleyball, menís hockey; the highest theaters per capita outside of New York City. The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of Chicago. A robust high school hockey community maybe only rivaled by Texas football and Indiana basketball. All while only being a fraction the size the other markets who have anything remotely similar. NYC, Boston, LA, Dallas/FW, Houston, Chicago.

    How do you evaluate menís attendance with record without looking at how the entertainment economy has evolved in that market? Almost impossible.


    All of that said, I would be moderately shocked to find there isnít a medium to strong correlation between winning percent vs attendance when grouped by completion with other entertainment options. Minnesota used to be one of the crowns in college football. We havenít won **** since the Vikings came to town and sucked every dollar out of football spending.

    ETA: Another thing that might be interesting is factors like distance to average opponent. Length of time in a conference. Cost of tickets.
    You have a fair point with the Vikings maybe being one contributor to the downfall of the Gopher football program. The rest sounds like something you quoted from the chamber of commerce and have little actual effect. ď The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of ChicagoĒ óis there a city bigger than MSP in the midwest that makes this award a surprise? Maybe at one point Detroit was bigger, but not now. At least people with disposable income

    I wouldnít doubt the Gopher season ticket waiting list likely peaked when the Stars left, but the Wild did not steal all the attention at least not right away. and the severe drop is definitely an outlier to the trend. Compare to Bostonóor Denver. AFAIK none of the programs in those cities are suffering attendance woes of MN and itís definitely not due to a lack of options. I canít even articulate how laughable the idea is that hockey attendance is down because everyone turned to theatre... that would have to assume that all sports (Vikings, Twins, Lynx etc..) attendance would all be down due to the metro turning so... ďliberalĒ... and then some teams leave town until equilibrium is achieved again.
    Thereís going to be a big squeeze on enrollment in less established fall-back univeraities like the SCSUís of the nation, and the cultural shift with technology and social media is going to continue hurting athletic revenue across the nation, but Minnesota should not be negatively hurt any more than anywhere else. What killed the program was clearly the ticket donation rate hike in combination with conference realignment. Awful combination. I donít think theyíll ever fully recover even doing away with the mandatory donations
    Itís definitely related to distance between rivals. In MN you may have a friend who went to UW, or Iowa, but not sprinkled throughout like UND/Mankato/Duluth/SCSU. And trash talk between friends is half the reason people watch
    Last edited by UMD21; 12-24-2019 at 07:15 PM.

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Itís more complicated than that. Obviously. You have to look at the choices fans have relative to the population.

    The twin cities has every imaginable sports team for a market. All four big pro teams; pro soccer; D1 football, basketball, womenís basketball, womenís volleyball, menís hockey; the highest theaters per capita outside of New York City. The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of Chicago. A robust high school hockey community maybe only rivaled by Texas football and Indiana basketball. All while only being a fraction the size the other markets who have anything remotely similar. NYC, Boston, LA, Dallas/FW, Houston, Chicago.

    How do you evaluate menís attendance with record without looking at how the entertainment economy has evolved in that market? Almost impossible.


    All of that said, I would be moderately shocked to find there isnít a medium to strong correlation between winning percent vs attendance when grouped by completion with other entertainment options. Minnesota used to be one of the crowns in college football. We havenít won **** since the Vikings came to town and sucked every dollar out of football spending.

    ETA: Another thing that might be interesting is factors like distance to average opponent. Length of time in a conference. Cost of tickets.
    As I said, home winning percentage could be a contributing factor, just one of several. The cost of tickets, traffic, free or low cost streaming are some of the other factors that have been previously mentioned here or in the BU thread. Other entertainment options are also a factor for teams in metro areas (here in the Boston area teams regularly change the time of games when a Patriots playoff game ends up scheduled at the same time) as you mention. As for the size of the Minneapolis market, you compare it ti the top five markets in the country and Boston (which is 10th) and make it seem much smaller than it actually is. It is the 16th largest overall in the U.S. and is 74% the size of Boston, 52% the size of Houston and 48% the size of Dallas/Fort Worth. Against the top three it is 38% the size of Chicago, 27% the size of Los Angles and 18% the size of New York. There are also a number of smaller markets that have have similar sports options as the twin cities.

    Since I already had each team's seasonal home records since 2004 in a workbook and their average attendance figures since 2001 in another workbook it wasn't too much work put the information together. I should have that completed shortly.

    As for distance to opponents, there are 9 other DI hockey teams within 40 miles of BU, 5 of them in Hockey East. So while attendance may be slightly improved by visiting fans for a few games, overall the DI fanbase in the greater Boston area is very fractured compared to most other DI teams, like Minnesota. As an example, on 8 November of this year BC hosted UConn (5,291), BU hosted PC (2,837), UML hosted Maine (4,199) and Merrimack hosted NU (2,014) for a total of 14,341 fans watching a Hockey East game within 23 miles of each other. Harvard was hosting Princeton in front of another 1,633 fans just a mile-and-a-half from BU and Holy Cross hosted Sacred Heart in front of 1,052 fans just under 40 miles away.

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    The twin cities has every imaginable sports team for a market. All four big pro teams; pro soccer; D1 football, basketball, womenís basketball, womenís volleyball, menís hockey; the highest theaters per capita outside of New York City. The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of Chicago. A robust high school hockey community maybe only rivaled by Texas football and Indiana basketball. All while only being a fraction the size the other markets who have anything remotely similar. NYC, Boston, LA, Dallas/FW, Houston, Chicago.
    I hear what you are saying, but almost all of these options were also competing against the Gophers back when the hockey attendance was much higher. Plus some of them are not mutually exclusive (e.g. going out to eat before/after Gophers game).

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by UMD21 View Post
    You have a fair point with the Vikings maybe being one contributor to the downfall of the Gopher football program. The rest sounds like something you quoted from the chamber of commerce and have little actual effect. ď The most James Beard nominations in the Midwest outside of ChicagoĒ óis there a city bigger than MSP in the midwest that makes this award a surprise? Maybe at one point Detroit was bigger, but not now. At least people with disposable income

    I wouldnít doubt the Gopher season ticket waiting list likely peaked when the Stars left, but the Wild did not steal all the attention at least not right away. and the severe drop is definitely an outlier to the trend. Compare to Bostonóor Denver. AFAIK none of the programs in those cities are suffering attendance woes of MN and itís definitely not due to a lack of options. I canít even articulate how laughable the idea is that hockey attendance is down because everyone turned to theatre... that would have to assume that all sports (Vikings, Twins, Lynx etc..) attendance would all be down due to the metro turning so... ďliberalĒ... and then some teams leave town until equilibrium is achieved again.
    Thereís going to be a big squeeze on enrollment in less established fall-back univeraities like the SCSUís of the nation, and the cultural shift with technology and social media is going to continue hurting athletic revenue across the nation, but Minnesota should not be negatively hurt any more than anywhere else. What killed the program was clearly the ticket donation rate hike in combination with conference realignment. Awful combination. I donít think theyíll ever fully recover even doing away with the mandatory donations
    Itís definitely related to distance between rivals. In MN you may have a friend who went to UW, or Iowa, but not sprinkled throughout like UND/Mankato/Duluth/SCSU. And trash talk between friends is half the reason people watch
    The beard awards comment was to point out the restaurant scene here is also quite competitive.

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Pickett View Post
    As I said, home winning percentage could be a contributing factor, just one of several. The cost of tickets, traffic, free or low cost streaming are some of the other factors that have been previously mentioned here or in the BU thread. Other entertainment options are also a factor for teams in metro areas (here in the Boston area teams regularly change the time of games when a Patriots playoff game ends up scheduled at the same time) as you mention. As for the size of the Minneapolis market, you compare it ti the top five markets in the country and Boston (which is 10th) and make it seem much smaller than it actually is. It is the 16th largest overall in the U.S. and is 74% the size of Boston, 52% the size of Houston and 48% the size of Dallas/Fort Worth. Against the top three it is 38% the size of Chicago, 27% the size of Los Angles and 18% the size of New York. There are also a number of smaller markets that have have similar sports options as the twin cities.

    Since I already had each team's seasonal home records since 2004 in a workbook and their average attendance figures since 2001 in another workbook it wasn't too much work put the information together. I should have that completed shortly.

    As for distance to opponents, there are 9 other DI hockey teams within 40 miles of BU, 5 of them in Hockey East. So while attendance may be slightly improved by visiting fans for a few games, overall the DI fanbase in the greater Boston area is very fractured compared to most other DI teams, like Minnesota. As an example, on 8 November of this year BC hosted UConn (5,291), BU hosted PC (2,837), UML hosted Maine (4,199) and Merrimack hosted NU (2,014) for a total of 14,341 fans watching a Hockey East game within 23 miles of each other. Harvard was hosting Princeton in front of another 1,633 fans just a mile-and-a-half from BU and Holy Cross hosted Sacred Heart in front of 1,052 fans just under 40 miles away.

    Sean
    There are almost no markets with the Minnesota options near that size. All five pro sports and a power five school? With college hockey becoming even more of a niche sport.

    Also, if youíre using tv markets, thatís a bad comparison. The twin cities market somehow includes Benton, Yellow Medicine, and Mille Lacs counties (among other absurdities)? No way. These are not people who are going to travel an hour plus to watch games. These people are not being competed for.

    If youíre talking about the statistical areas, youíll find similar oddly included areas that might make sense for census statistics but donít paint a very good picture of what the sports market is. Youíre competing for people within something like 30-45 minutes away.

    If youíre referring to urban population, then Minnesota is only about half the size of Boston.

    With all of that said, almost everyone Iíve talked to at the games also mention youth hockey as a major contributor to lower attendances. The demands for time commitments by the teams has ramped up significantly over the last decade. Traveling, practices, and games adds up. And for a state that sets attendance records for high school hockey tournaments, thatís a big competitor.

    Among other people itís often ďI had to decide between tickets to the gophers and team XYZ. I dropped the gophers. Just couldnít afford them.Ē The cost of tickets at Minnesota dwarfs nearly every other program. To get into the building was $750+ for a season. Most of the tickets had at least $200 tacked onto that for donations.

    Plus the abandonment of the WCHA and local rivals in favor of non-traditional teams like OSU and PSU. This is what I was getting at with proximity to other schools. Visiting fans has almost never played a major role, itís always been fans enjoying seeing other Minnesota schools come in, the Sioux, etc.

    Now that the well has been poisoned and the ticket list has evaporated, itís no longer a hot ticket. Once that demand dies, it takes years to rebuild. Maybe never as the changing demographics take hold. Most of the season tickets that are still sold have likely been in families for decades. Theyíve made it a point to hold those tickets. When they went to over $1,500 for a pair, or god forbid you want to bring your family at $3k a year, people just couldnít afford them anymore. Then they decided to jack the prices of single ticket games. If a family wanted to see the Hawks series last year they would have had to shell out something like $70-90 a ticket, face.

    Regardless, the administration has done everything in their power to price people out of tickets, destroy the in-arena experience, force people out of seats they had since the arena was built so people who donated more could take them, and then they had to change conferences. Poor on ice performance has hurt the most. Combine that with changing demographics and millennials attending less sports in person and youíve got no reason to go to games.

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    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidNardolillo View Post
    I hear what you are saying, but almost all of these options were also competing against the Gophers back when the hockey attendance was much higher. Plus some of them are not mutually exclusive (e.g. going out to eat before/after Gophers game).
    Youíre not wrong. But I think there are still several factors. And again, most consequential has been the ****ty play.

    But your last point is interesting. Minnesotaís campus has changed significantly. I wonder how much of that has contributed. Our group is down to basically two restaurants we like to go to down on campus. And one is going away in the next few years for another yuppie high rise and generic restaurant supplied by Sysco.

    My point in the post just above this is that the demand we used to have was built over decades of success and tradition. These were people who have had tickets in their family that predate the Twins, Vikings, Wild, and Timberwolves. They knew teams like Michigan Tech, Denver, CC, North Dakota. Old, old rivalries. People wanted these tickets because they taught to want them by attending games with their parents and families. Older fans taught younger fans the importance of the rivalries.

    Anyways, what Iím getting at is that this loyalty took decades to earn through winning and tradition. The administration has torched both of those and set fire to that loyalty. That loyalty drove demand and itís going to take decades to build that back.

    Winning and getting a new generation of fans used to teams like Penn State, Michigan State, and Ohio State.

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    Hockey East Attendance

    Hockey East Attendance



    I started BU's attendance with the opening of Agganis Arena, which means only the second half of the 2004-05 season is included in this chart. This is a slight correlation between home winning percentage and attendance, although attendance didn't increase for the 2008-09 NCAA championship season, despite an excellent home record. Attendance did increase for the 2014-15 season, but that was more likely due to Jack Eichel, as despite the even better record the following season attendance dropped again. Attendance this season is off quite a bit despite a decent home record. Agganis Arena is 60% larger than Walter Brown Arena and it appears that while BU was able to fill most of those seats for several seasons they weren't able to keep them and they are now back to early to mid-nineties attendance. With just 7 home games left this season it is unlikely their average for this season will change very much.



    BC's attendance is interesting, especially for the 2007-08 NCAA championship season, in which the had a losing home record, but still had good attendance, and again for the 2009-10 NCAA championship , in which they had an excellnet home record, but had a drop in attendance (title fatigue?). Attendance rebounded the following season and remained healthy for several more seasons, before beginning a decline that lasted until this season. For the most part that attendance decline was also mirrored by declining home records, although still excellent when compared to most other teams. With 2/3 thirds (10) of their home games still to be played their average for this season can still change significantly.



    UConn's attendance has obviously been affected by their move from Atlantic Hockey to Hockey East in 2014-15. That said, their attendance since their first season in the league has dropped almost in half, despite their home record basically remaining about 0.500. The lack of immediate success, the luster of joining Hockey East wearing off and having home games in Hartford and not on campus are all likely reasons for the decline in attendance.



    UMass's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, the last their seasons very closely.



    UMass-Lowell's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, except for the 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons when it remained basically steady despite the their home record becoming worse.



    Maine' attendance has generally mirrored their home record, with the 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons being exceptions, until this season. This season their home record has been excellent (5-0-1) and ticket prices were even reduced for most seats, but so far many fans have stayed away. With 10 home games left that could change after such a good first semester, however, their appears to be a number of fans who want to see a coaching change and many of them may stay away for that reason. Of course, losing a few, or more, home games will also impact their home record.



    Merrimack's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, although their home record has fluctuated more season to season than their attendance has.



    New Hampshire's attendance also has generally mirrored their home record, excepting this season and last season, when their home record has improved far more then their attendance has. With 11 home games remaining, that, like with Maine, can change quite a bit during the upcoming second semester. The same also goes for their home record.



    As has been mentioned by another poster, Northeastern has one of the worst average attendance figures the league (currently 10th) despite an excellent home and good overall record. That was not always the case as from 2004-05 through 2014-15 (with the exception of 2012-13) their attendance mirrored their home record closely. However, since then their attendance has declined somewhat despite their home record improving vastly. With 8 home games already having been played and just 6 remaining it may be hard for their attendance figure to improve much, although losing a few of the remaing home games will also impact their home record.



    Providence's attendance strongly mirrors their home record, especially since the 2009-10 season, until this season. With only 5 home games remaining it is more likely their home record will change more than their average attendance for the season.



    Vermont's attendance at best only weakly mirrors their home record, until the last season and this season, when a drop in attendance has been noticeable. That their attendance remained pretty stable, despite their fluctuating home record, several below 0.500, can in part be attributed to the lack of other sports teams that compete with the team. In fact, Vermont's men's basketball team is really the only competition they have for the sports dollar in Burlington. Like Maine, there appears to be a number of fans who want to see a coaching change, but it remains to be seen if they will stay away until that occurs. With 11 home games remaining both their attendance and home record can change quite a lot during the second semester.

    Sean
    Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
    Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

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  19. #219
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    Oct 2018
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    178

    Re: Average Men's Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Youíre not wrong. But I think there are still several factors. And again, most consequential has been the ****ty play.

    But your last point is interesting. Minnesotaís campus has changed significantly. I wonder how much of that has contributed. Our group is down to basically two restaurants we like to go to down on campus. And one is going away in the next few years for another yuppie high rise and generic restaurant supplied by Sysco.

    My point in the post just above this is that the demand we used to have was built over decades of success and tradition. These were people who have had tickets in their family that predate the Twins, Vikings, Wild, and Timberwolves. They knew teams like Michigan Tech, Denver, CC, North Dakota. Old, old rivalries. People wanted these tickets because they taught to want them by attending games with their parents and families. Older fans taught younger fans the importance of the rivalries.

    Anyways, what Iím getting at is that this loyalty took decades to earn through winning and tradition. The administration has torched both of those and set fire to that loyalty. That loyalty drove demand and itís going to take decades to build that back.

    Winning and getting a new generation of fans used to teams like Penn State, Michigan State, and Ohio State.
    I agree with you. On the restaurants, I was a big fan of the Big 10 post-game sandwich, but depending on who came to the games with me, we also headed to some of the fancier downtown restaurants that were open late.

  20. #220
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    2,439

    Re: Hockey East Attendance

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Pickett View Post
    Hockey East Attendance



    I started BU's attendance with the opening of Agganis Arena, which means only the second half of the 2004-05 season is included in this chart. This is a slight correlation between home winning percentage and attendance, although attendance didn't increase for the 2008-09 NCAA championship season, despite an excellent home record. Attendance did increase for the 2014-15 season, but that was more likely due to Jack Eichel, as despite the even better record the following season attendance dropped again. Attendance this season is off quite a bit despite a decent home record. Agganis Arena is 60% larger than Walter Brown Arena and it appears that while BU was able to fill most of those seats for several seasons they weren't able to keep them and they are now back to early to mid-nineties attendance. With just 7 home games left this season it is unlikely their average for this season will change very much.



    BC's attendance is interesting, especially for the 2007-08 NCAA championship season, in which the had a losing home record, but still had good attendance, and again for the 2009-10 NCAA championship , in which they had an excellnet home record, but had a drop in attendance (title fatigue?). Attendance rebounded the following season and remained healthy for several more seasons, before beginning a decline that lasted until this season. For the most part that attendance decline was also mirrored by declining home records, although still excellent when compared to most other teams. With 2/3 thirds (10) of their home games still to be played their average for this season can still change significantly.



    UConn's attendance has obviously been affected by their move from Atlantic Hockey to Hockey East in 2014-15. That said, their attendance since their first season in the league has dropped almost in half, despite their home record basically remaining about 0.500. The lack of immediate success, the luster of joining Hockey East wearing off and having home games in Hartford and not on campus are all likely reasons for the decline in attendance.



    UMass's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, the last their seasons very closely.



    UMass-Lowell's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, except for the 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons when it remained basically steady despite the their home record becoming worse.



    Maine' attendance has generally mirrored their home record, with the 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons being exceptions, until this season. This season their home record has been excellent (5-0-1) and ticket prices were even reduced for most seats, but so far many fans have stayed away. With 10 home games left that could change after such a good first semester, however, their appears to be a number of fans who want to see a coaching change and many of them may stay away for that reason. Of course, losing a few, or more, home games will also impact their home record.



    Merrimack's attendance has also generally mirrored their home record, although their home record has fluctuated more season to season than their attendance has.



    New Hampshire's attendance also has generally mirrored their home record, excepting this season and last season, when their home record has improved far more then their attendance has. With 11 home games remaining, that, like with Maine, can change quite a bit during the upcoming second semester. The same also goes for their home record.



    As has been mentioned by another poster, Northeastern has one of the worst average attendance figures the league (currently 10th) despite an excellent home and good overall record. That was not always the case as from 2004-05 through 2014-15 (with the exception of 2012-13) their attendance mirrored their home record closely. However, since then their attendance has declined somewhat despite their home record improving vastly. With 8 home games already having been played and just 6 remaining it may be hard for their attendance figure to improve much, although losing a few of the remaing home games will also impact their home record.



    Providence's attendance strongly mirrors their home record, especially since the 2009-10 season, until this season. With only 5 home games remaining it is more likely their home record will change more than their average attendance for the season.



    Vermont's attendance at best only weakly mirrors their home record, until the last season and this season, when a drop in attendance has been noticeable. That their attendance remained pretty stable, despite their fluctuating home record, several below 0.500, can in part be attributed to the lack of other sports teams that compete with the team. In fact, Vermont's men's basketball team is really the only competition they have for the sports dollar in Burlington. Like Maine, there appears to be a number of fans who want to see a coaching change, but it remains to be seen if they will stay away until that occurs. With 11 home games remaining both their attendance and home record can change quite a lot during the second semester.

    Sean
    Providence in general has had SO MANY home games this year that it has overloaded the fan base. A couple of the games have been scheduled with men's basketball playing just before them across town. Not an excuse at all just the way they have been scheduling games this year.
    Yes I am the former member known as Zlax45

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