State of D-II Hockey

[Buckeye22]

Re: State of D-II Hockey

As for the other DII schools, I'm not convinced there will be any major shakeup. Its certainly possible. I heard a lot of people say that St. Mike's might want to move down, but as far as I know the school itself hasn't done anything. As for the others, I don't think the loss of St. A's or even St. A's and St. Mike's, would force them to change things. If they've been content with the limbo they're in now for as long as they have been, who's to say they would want to change things now? They would just lose one or two teams, but they could still play their little NE-10 tournament with 4 or 5. I don't see Stonehill and Assumption just up and cutting their programs after all this time just because one or two more DII schools have left. SNHU going DI isn't totally ridiculous when you consider all the money and brand recognition they have now from their online programs, but I still wouldn't call it likely. Plus, If Post comes in and St. Mike's stays, they could just stick with the 6 team format they have now.

Well this article from 2003 sort of throws a wrench in my previous statement. Apparently NCAA rules state (I'm assuming they wouldn't have changed since 2003) that a conference must have a minimum of 6 teams to hold a postseason tournament. So without St. A's, that means they would have to stop the NE-10 tournament, thus eliminating what little postseason the DII schools have left. I still don't know if that would be enough to shake the other 5 schools into doing something. Again if Post does come in (there have been no new updates to the hockey page of their athletics site since February) the NE-10 could stay at 6. I honestly don't know how accurate that 2003 article is, because I know for a fact that some DI and DIII conferences, both before and since, have had postseason tournaments with fewer than 6 teams. The WIAC for example currently has one with only 5. I guess you can't trust everything on USCHO.

[NUProf]

Re: State of D-II Hockey

Well this article from 2003 sort of throws a wrench in my previous statement. Apparently NCAA rules state (I'm assuming they wouldn't have changed since 2003) that a conference must have a minimum of 6 teams to hold a postseason tournament. So without St. A's, that means they would have to stop the NE-10 tournament, thus eliminating what little postseason the DII schools have left. I still don't know if that would be enough to shake the other 5 schools into doing something. Again if Post does come in (there have been no new updates to the hockey page of their athletics site since February) the NE-10 could stay at 6. I honestly don't know how accurate that 2003 article is, because I know for a fact that some DI and DIII conferences, both before and since, have had postseason tournaments with fewer than 6 teams. The WIAC for example currently has one with only 5. I guess you can't trust everything on USCHO.

It may (or may not) be a DII rule that a conference has to have a minimum of 6 teams for a post season tournament, but it doesn't apply to DIII. When the ECAC West had 4 and 5 teams, they had a postseason tournament. The WIAC women have only 4 teams and they have a post season tournament, and the men have 5 teams. Of course it could also be inaccurate reporting.

[BetterInLakePlacid]

What St. As does will be most interesting as its new athletic director doesn't care about what's good for the school or athletic department. So long as whatever he does can be dropped into a bullet point on his resume so he can move on to the next place, he'll do it.

[Buckeye22]

Re: State of D-II Hockey

SUNY Fredonia released their schedule and they're playing a pair of games against Post, so apparently Post will be a thing this year.

[Buckeye22]

Re: State of D-II Hockey

SUNY Fredonia released their schedule and they're playing a pair of games against Post, so apparently Post will be a thing this year.

NCAA.com has also added pages for Post Men's and Women's ice hockey. Both teams are listed as Division II Independents. I'll be interested to see how their schedule works out this year. Their men's team was pretty terrible last year against mostly ACHA DII opponents and I'm not sure if their women's team even played. There's no schedule listed on their website.

Also more news out of Saint A's. They don't seem to be going DIII any time soon. Athletic scholarships are being reinstated for 2017. Story here.

[NUProf]

Re: State of D-II Hockey

NCAA.com has also added pages for Post Men's and Women's ice hockey. Both teams are listed as Division II Independents. I'll be interested to see how their schedule works out this year. Their men's team was pretty terrible last year against mostly ACHA DII opponents and I'm not sure if their women's team even played. There's no schedule listed on their website.

Also more news out of Saint A's. They don't seem to be going DIII any time soon. Athletic scholarships are being reinstated for 2017. Story here.

To me (as an academician, so I admit my bias), Division II makes no sense. For schools to spend financial resources for scholarships that could go to academics in order to pursue championships in a division that no one really cares about (quick, without looking can you tell me who won the DII football or basketball championship last year?) is a waste of institutional resources. Division III makes more sense in that the athletes are required to be students subject to the same financial support rules as every other student. Yes, money is spent on athletics, and some schools spend more than others, but students get support because they are students. If you want to spend money on athletic scholarships, you might as well be in DI.

As far as that goes, I think the lack of integrity in DI major sports shows us how athletics has become the tail wagging the dog at some of our most prominent academic institutions. College athletics started as a way for students at one school to compete with students at another school. Division I has turned that into athletic departments that are independent empires that have more power than the people who run the school. Just look at Baylor and all the other schools where athletic departments have run amok and taken away from the academic reputations of the schools that they were supposed to "represent."

[PrezdeJohnson09]

NCAA.com has also added pages for Post Men's and Women's ice hockey. Both teams are listed as Division II Independents. I'll be interested to see how their schedule works out this year. Their men's team was pretty terrible last year against mostly ACHA DII opponents and I'm not sure if their women's team even played. There's no schedule listed on their website.

Also more news out of Saint A's. They don't seem to be going DIII any time soon. Athletic scholarships are being reinstated for 2017. Story here.

I don't get how reinstating scholarships doesn't affect Saint Anselm's Division III exploratory phase. If anything wouldn't that prolong their ability to drop down to D-III for a few more years now that they are offering scholarships and thus they would need to be "cleansed" again.

[Buckeye22]

Re: State of D-II Hockey

I don't get how reinstating scholarships doesn't affect Saint Anselm's Division III exploratory phase. If anything wouldn't that prolong their ability to drop down to D-III for a few more years now that they are offering scholarships and thus they would need to be "cleansed" again.

That's the thing. The administration keeps saying they're continuing to explore DIII, but this seems like a pretty big win for the people who want to stay DII (which seems like most of the St. A's community). The quote from the women's basketball coach in that article about the school "recommitting" to DII seemed pretty unequivocal. Obviously thats just one coache's opinion and is in no way official, but still. You have to wonder if the uncertainty one way or the other will start to negatively affect recruiting.

[PrezdeJohnson09]

That's the thing. The administration keeps saying they're continuing to explore DIII, but this seems like a pretty big win for the people who want to stay DII (which seems like most of the St. A's community). The quote from the women's basketball coach in that article about the school "recommitting" to DII seemed pretty unequivocal. Obviously thats just one coache's opinion and is in no way official, but still. You have to wonder if the uncertainty one way or the other will start to negatively affect recruiting.

Maybe once the NEWMAC idea failed, which in my personal opinion seemed like a good fit for them, they were left down stream without a paddle.

I'm not sure what other league makes sense for them. The NEWMAC seemed like the most logical fit for geography, academic standards and the fact the NEWMAC is starting football in 2017. Saint Anselm would have made an excellent addition to that league.

The other thing that I'm now intrigued by is how does this effect Saint Anselm's NEHC status. From what I was told, both Saint Mike's and Saint Anselm had to make committed moves to be dropping to D-III in order to stay in the league. Saint Anselm had hit the requirement by their announcement last year but now this would seem to tell a different story. Last I knew, Saint Michael's was still mum on what they were doing which didn't look good for the NEHC prospects.

I believe there is a league meeting coming up soon so maybe more light will be shed on the situation soon.

[sbkbghockey]

Re: State of D-II Hockey

To me (as an academician, so I admit my bias), Division II makes no sense. For schools to spend financial resources for scholarships that could go to academics in order to pursue championships in a division that no one really cares about (quick, without looking can you tell me who won the DII football or basketball championship last year?) is a waste of institutional resources. Division III makes more sense in that the athletes are required to be students subject to the same financial support rules as every other student. Yes, money is spent on athletics, and some schools spend more than others, but students get support because they are students. If you want to spend money on athletic scholarships, you might as well be in DI.

As far as that goes, I think the lack of integrity in DI major sports shows us how athletics has become the tail wagging the dog at some of our most prominent academic institutions. College athletics started as a way for students at one school to compete with students at another school. Division I has turned that into athletic departments that are independent empires that have more power than the people who run the school. Just look at Baylor and all the other schools where athletic departments have run amok and taken away from the academic reputations of the schools that they were supposed to "represent."

Very good points NUProf,

I think your second point about the lack of integrity that seems like comes attached to big college athletics (NCAA D1) is why D2 is an option for schools that want to invest some resources in athletics but still want to maintain balance between athletics and academics and still have a focus on the STUDENT-athlete. Many times, although not as much with hockey as some sports, we see NCAA DI as more of an ATHLETE-student philosophy.

[Buckeye22]

Re: State of D-II Hockey

Post University women's hockey team has released the schedule for their inaugural season. They will be playing as an independent. Biggest highlight is that they will be participating in the women's edition of the annual Codfish Bowl tournament at UMass-Boston, playing UMB in the first round. UMass-Boston won the NEHC last year, so that will be quite the measuring stick for the new Post squad.

Schedule here.

[tiredtender]

Re: State of D-II Hockey

There will be 9 NAIA schools forming a varsity hockey conference in 17-18. Interestingly this will include athletic aid that parallels current NCAA D2 offerings.
Q. Has anybody ever heard of a "blended" league consisting of NCAA and NAIA schools (or NJCAA for that matter)?

[sbkbghockey]

Re: State of D-II Hockey

There will be 9 NAIA schools forming a varsity hockey conference in 17-18. Interestingly this will include athletic aid that parallels current NCAA D2 offerings.
Q. Has anybody ever heard of a "blended" league consisting of NCAA and NAIA schools (or NJCAA for that matter)?

It was talked about spitballing around in the NAIA comeback thread http://board.uscho.com/showthread.ph...sible-Comeback

The conclusions we all basically came up with is that the NCAA probably wouldn't allow it since the NAIA and NCAA are separate associations (and somewhat compete against each other since NCAA D2 and NAIA levels are very comparable in most sports). Also the NCAA D2 hockey schools are where they are in limbo because they don't put resources into hockey to play up, like many other D2 schools do, and the NCAA has rules where they can compete at D3, not give schollies, but can't play postseason in NCAA D3.

Probably the best thing would be a rule change by the NCAA to have the D1 championship and a "National Collegiate" championship that blends the NCAA D2 and D3 sports. The NCAA has National Collegiate Championships for other sports, usually smaller sports that have membership across the divisions.

[Buckeye22]

There will be 9 NAIA schools forming a varsity hockey conference in 17-18. Interestingly this will include athletic aid that parallels current NCAA D2 offerings.
Q. Has anybody ever heard of a "blended" league consisting of NCAA and NAIA schools (or NJCAA for that matter)?

I believe that back in the day NCAA schools used to compete in the NAIA hockey tournament on an invitational bases, but that was before the NCAA had a DII or DIII National Tournament.

[joecct]

It was talked about spitballing around in the NAIA comeback thread http://board.uscho.com/showthread.ph...sible-Comeback

The conclusions we all basically came up with is that the NCAA probably wouldn't allow it since the NAIA and NCAA are separate associations (and somewhat compete against each other since NCAA D2 and NAIA levels are very comparable in most sports). Also the NCAA D2 hockey schools are where they are in limbo because they don't put resources into hockey to play up, like many other D2 schools do, and the NCAA has rules where they can compete at D3, not give schollies, but can't play postseason in NCAA D3.

Probably the best thing would be a rule change by the NCAA to have the D1 championship and a "National Collegiate" championship that blends the NCAA D2 and D3 sports. The NCAA has National Collegiate Championships for other sports, usually smaller sports that have membership across the divisions.

Then would the D2 -> D1 playups (9/10 of WCHA + others ) be forced to play down? The women have a combined D1/D2 NCC.