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Thread: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

  1. #101
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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
    The time travel thing just annoys me so much, because I absolutely hate it as a plot device, and it changes my perception of the weirwood net into something that just isn't as interesting to me. (Okay, this is going to be more of a rant on how it impacts the books if this element plays out there as it did in the show)

    In hindsight maybe this was inevitable that ideas could be warged across time and space... Jojen and Bran both have had prophetic (if more symbolic) dreams for quite a while. Bran's dreams are probably more of the "3ER is talking to me from a great distance" and have no time travel (he basically dreams of Ned's death, as does Rickon, before they know about it, but that's before the raven arrives with the news, not before it actually happens). More significantly, Jojen claims to know how he's going to die, and foresees things like the Ironborn taking Winterfell.

    But that's not quite how I had thought the weirwood net (namely Bran's visions from ADWD) were presented. The way that was presented made it seem more like the pensieve in Harry Potter, or the neural network in Avatar: the weirwoods were like this database of memories from the past (as Bran does when starts seeing some visions), and are able to produce a sort of hivemind where you could communicate from one weirwood to another (like when Bran whispers to Theon). As such, the memories/history are just like rewatching an .mp4 file through trees that also function as a sort of phone system.

    The idea that you are ACTUALLY being taken back to that event in history does a few things. First, it means you aren't seeing a memory of Tower of Joy, you are actually at the Tower of Joy. This raises interesting questions, like "why are Bran and 3ER watching TOJ alone? Is this the only time they show up to watch it? Does no one else with this power ever visit here? Why aren't there, at the least, one or two other copies of Bran from when he might want to revisit this to learn more, or of 3ER from any time he might have watched this before?". I mean, its not like you can't have multiple beings in a "memory" at the same time, otherwise I have no earthly idea what was going on with the Nights King.

    Second, it means that we now expose ourselves to the singular reason I hate time travel: paradoxes. If you can travel back in time (or even send an idea back in time), why hasn't Future Bran decided to do what 3ER completely forgot to do and warn his past self about "oh, hey, try not to spelunking by yourself, or at least avoid White Walkers if you do"? It's Magic TV Logic and/or TV Characters Behaving Like Idiots at its worst if you don't explore this. Granted, the show (and books?) might very well subvert this. The DeLorean can't return from the 1800s if it's out of fuel, maybe there's something that stops Bran from being able to use this power again. That'd be fine, but then it just makes the time travel into a one time thing, which sort of makes the weirwoods into a giant red herring and/or shaggy dog story. Dumb.

    Really, the only way out of that pickle (no one uses time travel, even though its totally still an option) is the Red Vs. Blue S3 approach: you never actually change anything through time travel, you just either end up causing the events that transpired or you have no impact whatsoever. Which is probably the best way to deal with the time travel paradox, but probably is better suited for a comedy than whatever we're trying to accomplish here.

    TL;DR version: Time travel is ****ing stupid and brings up more questions than it answers.
    I see exactly what you're saying. I am going to reserve judgement for a little bit for a couple reasons.

    First, as you mentioned, there are some "outs" where it won't be a complete ****show.

    Second, this writing team has done a **** good job of making things that originally look silly or obnoxious work*. I think they can make this work too, without going down the time travel rabbit hole.

    *except for Dorne, Dorne still ****ing sucks
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  2. #102
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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Also worth mentioning. I laugh every time I see Tormund doing commericials for Wyndham.
    Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post

    *except for Dorne, Dorne still ****ing sucks
    bugsbunnycuttingoffdorne.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    bugsbunnycuttingoffdorne.jpg
    Some of the show Dorne problems, I get.

    Obviously they were going to combine characters to reduce the number of suitors chasing after Dany. So, by the similar logic that combined Victarion Greyjoy's role into Euron (and maybe Asha/Yara), it makes sense to nix a seemingly redundant Quentyn role, and whatever remains of that story will be given to other characters.

    And if you aren't going to have (f)Aegon, then the only reason to include Arianne is to go through the Queenmaking section of AFFC. Since the show seemingly wanted to just cut to the chase and kill Myrcella (gets closer to the Cersei endgame by killing off more of her children), there's no use left for Arianne.

    Without Quentyn or Arianne, there isn't really much in the show to be part of Doran's "master plan" and schemes to try to aid a Targaryen restoration. Maybe keep Trystane alive and send him after Dany, but again that's superfluous when you have the Ironborn.

    So... what else is left to do? I get that it sucks for the show to blow off a really cool "long con" artist/schemer in Doran, but there isn't much left for him to work with in the show.
    Last edited by ExileOnDaytonStreet; 05-25-2016 at 10:10 PM.

  5. #105
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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Sub

  6. #106
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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
    Some of the show Dorne problems, I get.

    Obviously they were going to combine characters to reduce the number of suitors chasing after Dany. So, by the similar logic that combined Victarion Greyjoy's role into Euron (and maybe Asha/Yara), it makes sense to nix a seemingly redundant Quentyn role, and whatever remains of that story will be given to other characters.

    And if you aren't going to have (f)Aegon, then the only reason to include Arianne is to go through the Queenmaking section of AFFC. Since the show seemingly wanted to just cut to the chase and kill Myrcella (gets closer to the Cersei endgame by killing off more of her children), there's no use left for Arianne.

    Without Quentyn or Arianne, there isn't really much in the show to be part of Doran's "master plan" and schemes to try to aid a Targaryen restoration. Maybe keep Trystane alive and send him after Dany, but again that's superfluous when you have the Ironborn.

    So... what else is left to do? I get that it sucks for the show to blow off a really cool "long con" artist/schemer in Doran, but there isn't much left for him to work with in the show.
    I understand why they cut all of that, it does make sense. The disappointing part was that it was all so discombobulated once they did cut it. They way they handled it, they would have been better off never showing Doran, or the Sand Snakes, other than through Jamie's viewpoint when he traveled there. Left them as just minor characters in the show, like how Yan Royce is a character, but not for more than a scene or 2 a season. As it was, it seems like we just wasted time in Dorne, when we could have spent that time expanding on other stories that could have used more bulk.
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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Also, where the hell is Bronn of the Blackwater this season?
    Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    Also, where the hell is Bronn of the Blackwater this season?
    He was doing a movie during filming so they had to work around him, I guess.
    "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


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  9. #109
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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Tommen, since you aren't using your spine, can Bran have it?

    Bishop takes King. Checkmate.

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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Tommen is a typical teenage boy. Led around by his ****

    ... and for Natalie Dormer, why not?
    "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    Tommen is a typical teenage boy. Led around by his ****

    ... and for Natalie Dormer, why not?
    Listening to him talk, it's obvious his testicles haven't dropped yet, and there is a very good reason for that. He doesn't have any.

    Oh, in case no one noticed: Not one person died last night. The only fatalities were the deer shot by the Tullys and the rabbit killed by Benjen.

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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    Listening to him talk, it's obvious his testicles haven't dropped yet, and there is a very good reason for that. He doesn't have any.

    Oh, in case no one noticed: Not one person died last night. The only fatalities were the deer shot by the Tullys and the rabbit killed by Benjen.
    Dead people got deader, or at least less animated (take that how you will).
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    Also, where the hell is Bronn of the Blackwater this season?
    Jaime at least mentioned him this time around.

  14. #114
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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Don't blame Tommen at all....

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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Totally still Cersei's fault.

    Plus it's been weeks since he's been able to have him some Margaery.

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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
    Totally still Cersei's fault.

    Plus it's been weeks since he's been able to have him some Margaery.
    Everything Cersei does is wrong. It might look good for her in the moment, but it ultimately goes bad. The FrankenMountain will likely end up killing Jamie, Tommen or her, I'd wager.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

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  17. #117
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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Even though everyone knew Benjen was coming back, that was still awesome.
    Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by St. Clown View Post
    Everything Cersei does is wrong. It might look good for her in the moment, but it ultimately goes bad. The FrankenMountain will likely end up killing Jamie, Tommen or her, I'd wager.
    She is way too confident that FrankenMountain will win the trial by combat. If the Viper had focused on finishing the job instead of dancing around gloating, he would have won. The HS has been a step ahead of them since Cersei gave them power yet she really believes she'll win at the trial. The HS is laying a trap and she's going to walk right into it. I think for the prophecy to be fulfilled Tommen has to bite it first, so Cersei can wallow in the death of all three children.

    Personally I'm expecting Clegane Bowl II (now with more zombies!) around episode 9.

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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    She is way too confident that FrankenMountain will win the trial by combat. If the Viper had focused on finishing the job instead of dancing around gloating, he would have won. The HS has been a step ahead of them since Cersei gave them power yet she really believes she'll win at the trial. The HS is laying a trap and she's going to walk right into it. I think for the prophecy to be fulfilled Tommen has to bite it first, so Cersei can wallow in the death of all three children.

    Personally I'm expecting Clegane Bowl II (now with more zombies!) around episode 9.
    I was thinking about that too. And it makes me think that with Tommen now in the HS's pocket that the HS may somehow convince Tommen to be the Seven's champion in the trial. It's highly unlikely, IMO, but would be a fun twist to fulfill the season 5 prophecy.
    "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

    "One does not simply walk into Mordor. Its Black Gates are guarded by more than just Orcs. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume." Boromir

    "Good news! We have a delivery." Professor Farnsworth

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    Re: Game of Thrones Season 6: Lions and Wolves and Sand Snakes, oh my!

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    Personally I'm expecting Clegane Bowl II (now with more zombies!) around episode 9.
    Aren't we running short of Cleganes?
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