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  • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

    Originally posted by solovsfett View Post
    Concrete evidence of two shooters: FBI agents Francis O'Neill and James Sibert signing for receipt of a "missle" aka bullet, at Bethesda. So tell me, what conclusion do you draw from that straight up fact?

    WC has one bullet missing the car, one entering Connelly after 6other turns and angles etc and one shattering after hitting jfk's head.

    So? there is no-one anywhere denying the FBI signed for a 4th bullet and anything more than 3 = 2 or more shooters.

    And to add fuel to the fire there's a photo of an FBI agent picking a bullet out of the grass on the south side of the plaza and the statements of two naval cadets sent to the limo to retrieve skull fragments at the end of the autopsy at Bethesda. They found a bullet in the car. Now we're up to 6.

    But you refuse to investigate any of this.

    If you refuse at this point to review even one of these facts or sources I ask you one to look at one related fact. Operation Northwoods. See what you find.
    If you’re right, it will become a consensus conclusion and I’ll buy into it. Yet it’s just you and a handful of people who think they have all the answers. If there was concrete proof (again, all you offer is pictures up for interpretation, someone picking up a missile which clearly means bullet for Kennedy , accounts of two people doing something which obvious means it’s nefarious, ) the media and public would have a different consensus opinion.
    Code:
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    Originally posted by SanTropez
    May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
    Originally posted by bigblue_dl
    I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
    Originally posted by Kepler
    When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
    He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

    Comment


    • Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
      If you’re right, it will become a consensus conclusion and I’ll buy into it. Yet it’s just you and a handful of people who think they have all the answers. If there was concrete proof (again, all you offer is pictures up for interpretation, someone picking up a missile which clearly means bullet for Kennedy , accounts of two people doing something which obvious means it’s nefarious, ) the media and public would have a different consensus opinion.
      It will become a definite conclusion over time with the media. But it will take a long time (read about operation mockingbird also the CIA media budget is enormous, at least double that of the AP and BBC combined)If you read Phil shenon, Larry sabato, max holland or Gerald poster ( all WC apologists) you'll find they can't bring themselves to acknowledge the simple fact that every person Oswald connected with in the last 1 1/2 year of his life were CIA or FBI agents or assets. It's why senator schweiker said "Oswald has the fingerprints of intelligence all over him". It's why sent Fonzi in secret to investigate and lay groundwork for what would become the HSCA.

      Herminio Ruiz admitted he was a shooter in Dallas. Unfortunately he expired in 1966.
      No less tan 3 CIA officers (Dave Phillips, David Morales and Howard Hunt) admitted there was a plot toward the end of their lives.

      in his book "man of the house" Tip O'Neill recounted a story of a dinner with JFK aides Ken O'Donnell and Dave Powers in 1979. Both men stated unequivocally shots came from out front behind the fence. Both stated they felt like they drive into an ambush. O'Neill pressed them "why didn't you tell the WC this?" The response? "That wasn't what they wanted to hear".O'Neill follows up. " I wouldn't have caved, I would have told them the truth"...I'm paraphrasing here but that's the gist of it.

      There are at least two films, possibly 3, taken from the south side of elm. The originals for all 3 were never returned to the owner' and when Nix received a copy of his film he felt it was altered. Who knows? We do know the 3rd film taken allegedly by Beverly Oliver who stood much closer than zapruder and was facing the fence and rail yards, that film has never been seen by the public.

      Anyway the long and short of it is Allen Dulles authored this ugly chapter. David Talbot chronicles this in The Devil' Chessboard.
      Everything in its right place, Wisconsin Hockey National Champs!


      "but you're not as confused as him are you. it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel". Tap pt 1.

      "I think it's ****ing stock. What--? Which part of that is unclear to you? I think it sounds stock to my ears. I mean, do you want me to write it down?" Tap Pt. 2

      Who???! So What!!!! Big Deal!!!!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by aparch View Post
        Huh. Interesting. Thanks for starting me down the Wikipedia rabbit hole.
        😀😀
        More
        Operation AJax = overthrow of modsadegh in inran
        Operation Success = overthrow of Arbenz in Guatemala
        Operation Sunrise = hide/ protect nazi Eugene dollman or Karl Wolff from enclosing allies. Both men were protected by Allen Dulles
        It's all ugly stuff
        Last edited by solovsfett; 10-26-2017, 07:58 AM.
        Everything in its right place, Wisconsin Hockey National Champs!


        "but you're not as confused as him are you. it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel". Tap pt 1.

        "I think it's ****ing stock. What--? Which part of that is unclear to you? I think it sounds stock to my ears. I mean, do you want me to write it down?" Tap Pt. 2

        Who???! So What!!!! Big Deal!!!!

        Comment


        • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

          I’m so compelled by some rube who ‘felt’ his film had been altered. You’ve convinced me.
          Code:
          As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
          College Hockey 6       College Football 0
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          Originally posted by SanTropez
          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
          Originally posted by Kepler
          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
          He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

          Comment


          • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

            Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
            The simple beauty of conspiracy theories. The absence of evidence proves the theory.
            That's not what I said.
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            • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

              Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
              To me, it's not a matter of who did it, but WHY they did it (or who was the motive behind it).
              Kennedy was going to seriously restrict the agency's scope of action to its formal mandate. The mindset that inhabited the agency viewed that as an unacceptable threat to the US ("you need me on that wall," etc). They removed an enemy.
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              • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

                Personally I think it would be so much more interesting if there was some sort of smoking gun or evidence of a conspiracy to kill Kennedy in the files to be released. But it won't happen. It just isn't there.

                I love a good conspiracy as much as the next guy. But ignoring the "evidence," pretty much all of which has long since been debunked, I've just never thought that a conspiracy made any sense. Why kill Kennedy as he's coming to the end of his term instead of much earlier? Castro, Johnson, the Russians, the Mob, the CIA, the military industrial complex, multiple combinations of the above, etc... Can we just pick one? Pretty hard to convince me of a conspiracy when everyone has a different theory about who, how and why it was done.
                That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                Comment


                • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

                  Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
                  Do you realize how much you sound like Alex Jones and the controlled demolition crowd?
                  Come, now. That's not at all fair. solovsfett isn't making up non-scientific gibberish about the melting point of steel.

                  The mountain of circumstantial evidence that the agency was involved is not in and of itself proof. But it does swap the balance of Occam's Razor. We begin with an utterly unthinkable and enormous crime: the assassination of the president by men within a USG agency. Without context or further information the odds are just too high -- it's an untenable position.

                  So then I provide a motive and solovsfett provides facts which strongly indicate connections between the agency and the shooter. At that point the balance should begin to change. The "simplest explanation," eventually, at least for solovsfett and myself, switches. But the problem is the original crime seems so outlandish that for many people the normal rules of evidence collection are suspended. People make up their mind at the start and then come to a full stop: any further discussion is "conspiracy."

                  My speculation is this is in no way a huge conspiracy. It's a clandestine operation run out of one guy's office with a very small number of witting agents.

                  And the thing is: that's what the agency does. All the time. It's their job. They take down foreign leaders. At times they have run ops on domestic persons. We know all this.

                  They are a burglery ring -- we want them to be and they do that work all the time. We just don't want to believe they up and burgled the White House, because if that's true it's a very, very uncomfortable situation.
                  Last edited by Kepler; 10-26-2017, 08:31 AM.
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                  • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

                    Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                    Personally I think it would be so much more interesting if there was some sort of smoking gun or evidence of a conspiracy to kill Kennedy in the files to be released. But it won't happen. It just isn't there.

                    I love a good conspiracy as much as the next guy. But ignoring the "evidence," pretty much all of which has long since been debunked, I've just never thought that a conspiracy made any sense. Why kill Kennedy as he's coming to the end of his term instead of much earlier? Castro, Johnson, the Russians, the Mob, the CIA, the military industrial complex, multiple combinations of the above, etc... Can we just pick one? Pretty hard to convince me of a conspiracy when everyone has a different theory about who, how and why it was done.
                    You just reenacted the scene in Close Encounters where the guy mentions Big Foot and sidelines the whole discussion.

                    The presence of a hundred alternative theories does not affect any one theory in any fashion.
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                    • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      You just reenacted the scene in Close Encounters where the guy mentions Big Foot and sidelines the whole discussion.

                      The presence of a hundred alternative theories does not affect any one theory in any fashion.
                      Fine. Pick one then. Who and how? I won't even ask you to explain why they did it.
                      That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

                        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                        Fine. Pick one then. Who and how? I won't even ask you to explain why they did it.
                        This was no boat accident. It wasn't any propeller; it wasn't any coral reef. And it wasn't Jack the Ripper.

                        It was a shark. A rogue operation within the CIA ambushed Kennedy in Dallas because they were afraid he would curtail the scope of their covert ops and investigate their former ops. While they may have been defending themselves personally I think they believed they were defending the United States in a hostile world where you have to play rough because everyone else is.
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                        • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

                          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                          Come, now. That's not at all fair. solovsfett isn't making up non-scientific gibberish about the melting point of steel.

                          The mountain of circumstantial evidence that the agency was involved is not in and of itself proof. But it does swap the balance of Occam's Razor. We begin with an utterly unthinkable and enormous crime: the assassination of the president by men within a USG agency. Without context or further information the odds are just too high -- it's an untenable position.

                          So then I provide a motive and solovsfett provides facts which strongly indicate connections between the agency and the shooter. At that point the balance should begin to change. The "simplest explanation," eventually, at least for solovsfett and myself, switches. But the problem is the original crime seems so outlandish that for many people the normal rules of evidence collection are suspended. People make up their mind at the start and then come to a full stop: any further discussion is "conspiracy."

                          My speculation is this is in no way a huge conspiracy. It's a clandestine operation run out of one guy's office with a very small number of witting agents.

                          And the thing is: that's what the agency does. All the time. It's their job. They take down foreign leaders. At times they have run ops on domestic persons. We know all this.

                          They are a burglery ring -- we want them to be and they do that work all the time. We just don't want to believe they up and burgled the White House, because if that's true it's a very, very uncomfortable situation.
                          Except it is non-scientific gibberish. Theories discounted by peer reviewed journals. People ‘feeling’ like there were alterations. Photogographs that do nothing but show FBI agents retrieving something from the area and concluding it was an entirely separate bullet. Concluding an agency retrieved two bullets because “missiles” means bullets. Eyewitnesses’ recollections of gunshots being interpreted in two completely different ways.

                          A bunch on non-scientific gibberish on par with melting steel.
                          Code:
                          As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                          College Hockey 6       College Football 0
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                          Originally posted by SanTropez
                          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                          Originally posted by Kepler
                          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                          He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                          Comment


                          • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            This was no boat accident. It wasn't any propeller; it wasn't any coral reef. And it wasn't Jack the Ripper.

                            It was a shark. A rogue operation within the CIA ambushed Kennedy in Dallas because they were afraid he would curtail the scope of their covert ops and investigate their former ops. While they may have been defending themselves personally I think they believed they were defending the United States in a hostile world where you have to play rough because everyone else is.
                            So, is it your claim that LHO was the lone gunman, but acting at the behest of the CIA?
                            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

                              Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                              So, is it your claim that LHO was the lone gunman, but acting at the behest of the CIA?
                              That’s about the only one I could see happening. It doesn’t require the complete and willing suspension of disbelief like the multiple shooter hogwash.
                              Code:
                              As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                              College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                              BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                              Originally posted by SanTropez
                              May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                              Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                              I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                              Originally posted by Kepler
                              When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                              He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                              Comment


                              • Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

                                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                                Personally I think it would be so much more interesting if there was some sort of smoking gun or evidence of a conspiracy to kill Kennedy in the files to be released. But it won't happen. It just isn't there.
                                It's very unlikely there is. One possibility: it was all exactly as the Commission said it was, in which case there's nothing to find.

                                The second possibility is the Commission missed something and putting it together with later evidence and research will "cause the gun to smoke."

                                The third possibility is the Commission knew the truth but (probably rightfully) decided it was an existential crisis in American history and it was just too much. So they ate all the breadcrumbs for the good of the world.

                                The fourth possibility is the Commission knew the truth but (probably rightfully) decided it was an existential crisis in American history and it was just too much just then. So they squirreled away all the evidence for fifty years, and now we're going to open the box and find the severed head. Ew.

                                (Let's say, for instance, that it had been the Russians -- that the Commission found absolute proof the Russians assassinated Kennedy. If they let that out, they push the Doomsday Clock to a hundredth of a second before midnight. So they say, "Yeah, no... let's give this a Time Out. Surely fifty years from now we'll either have destroyed ourselves or figured out how to live in peace.")
                                Last edited by Kepler; 10-26-2017, 08:51 AM.
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