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2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

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  • Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

    Do you get the feeling that certain incumbents are desperate for votes? http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...637_story.html

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    • Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

      Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
      Do you get the feeling that certain incumbents are desperate for votes? http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...637_story.html
      The cows are out of the barn, we'll get single payer before they repeal obamacare. Maine has a repub campaigning with a promise to repeal obamacare, the guy is a weasel.
      I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

      Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

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      • Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

        You complain about moral equivalence yet are quick to bring up Jane Fonda to justify people who committed armed treason against the United States. Again, the actions of one actress (however vile) do not nearly equate to an entire section of this country rebeling against our country.

        Yes, I'm aware of the Lincoln quote from his second inaugural. What he got for his trouble is a bullet in the back of the head. I wonder if he might have felt a bit different about maliceg and charity if he'd somehow survived. Regardless, the men who committed that treason against the United States are celebrated as heroes and "the War of Northern Aggression" is still popular in some circles. Maybe if they'd been shown more malice and less charity they'd be remembered 150 years later as the traitors they were. People should feel no different about the Stars and Bars as they do about the Nazi Swastika.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by FlagDUDE08 View Post
          Do you get the feeling that certain incumbents are desperate for votes? http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...637_story.html
          An unwarranted and unworkable intrusion of the federal government into something that each State needed to decide on.

          Plus the SCOTUS decision delineated the authority of Congre$$ to tax anything at anytime for any purpose. I'm one of those who prefers a limited role for the federal establishment.
          CCT '77 & '78
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          5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
          1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

          ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
          - Benjamin Franklin

          Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

          I want to live forever. So far, so good.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Priceless View Post
            You complain about moral equivalence yet are quick to bring up Jane Fonda to justify people who committed armed treason against the United States. Again, the actions of one actress (however vile) do not nearly equate to an entire section of this country rebeling against our country.

            Yes, I'm aware of the Lincoln quote from his second inaugural. What he got for his trouble is a bullet in the back of the head. I wonder if he might have felt a bit different about maliceg and charity if he'd somehow survived. Regardless, the men who committed that treason against the United States are celebrated as heroes and "the War of Northern Aggression" is still popular in some circles. Maybe if they'd been shown more malice and less charity they'd be remembered 150 years later as the traitors they were. People should feel no different about the Stars and Bars as they do about the Nazi Swastika.
            For Lincoln, who knew his Bible, the parable of the Prodigal Son may be a good point of reference.
            CCT '77 & '78
            4 kids
            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
            - Benjamin Franklin

            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

            Comment


            • Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

              Originally posted by Priceless View Post
              You complain about moral equivalence yet are quick to bring up Jane Fonda to justify people who committed armed treason against the United States. Again, the actions of one actress (however vile) do not nearly equate to an entire section of this country rebeling against our country.

              Yes, I'm aware of the Lincoln quote from his second inaugural. What he got for his trouble is a bullet in the back of the head. I wonder if he might have felt a bit different about maliceg and charity if he'd somehow survived. Regardless, the men who committed that treason against the United States are celebrated as heroes and "the War of Northern Aggression" is still popular in some circles. Maybe if they'd been shown more malice and less charity they'd be remembered 150 years later as the traitors they were. People should feel no different about the Stars and Bars as they do about the Nazi Swastika.
              Washington is to be remembered as a hero because we won that insurrection, but Davis is to be remembered as a villain because they lost that one?

              Not a rhetorical question. I recognize the slavery component.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by burd View Post
                Washington is to be remembered as a hero because we won that insurrection, but Davis is to be remembered as a villain because they lost that one?

                Not a rhetorical question. I recognize the slavery component.
                Victors (usually) write history. I have little doubt that if the British had won that war the history books, if they even mentioned him at all, would tell us of the traitor Washington. Of course, if we were still a British colony, we might be speaking German instead of English 25 years ago the mujahideen were brave freedom fighters in the war against the Soviets. Haven't heard anyone call them brave lately...

                In the case of the Civil War, the victors did not write the history that much, as many Southerners still believe in the "War of Northern Aggression" and celebrate men like Davis, Lee and Stonewall Jackson as heroes. Hell, most of the military installations in the South are named after Confederate generals. That would be like naming an army base after Hitler, Tojo or bin Laden. Do we have any bases named after Cornwallis, Tarleton or Howe?

                Comment


                • Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

                  Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                  Victors (usually) write history. I have little doubt that if the British had won that war the history books, if they even mentioned him at all, would tell us of the traitor Washington. Of course, if we were still a British colony, we might be speaking German instead of English 25 years ago the mujahideen were brave freedom fighters in the war against the Soviets. Haven't heard anyone call them brave lately...

                  In the case of the Civil War, the victors did not write the history that much, as many Southerners still believe in the "War of Northern Aggression" and celebrate men like Davis, Lee and Stonewall Jackson as heroes. Hell, most of the military installations in the South are named after Confederate generals. That would be like naming an army base after Hitler, Tojo or bin Laden. Do we have any bases named after Cornwallis, Tarleton or Howe?
                  All true, but it seems like we are dealing with different degrees of separation. Even with our cousins, the English, it was less like we were fighting against our family, friends, and neighbors on farms and in towns and cities where we may have visited those people. Most colonists' emigration to America was an act of rejection of some kind, whether it was to escape something or to pursue opportunities unavailable in England or western Europe.

                  I just cannot see how you get to the comment that people should feel no different about the Stars and Bars than they do about the Nazi Swastika.

                  Verstehen Sie?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by burd View Post
                    All true, but it seems like we are dealing with different degrees of separation. Even with our cousins, the English, it was less like we were fighting against our family, friends, and neighbors on farms and in towns and cities where we may have visited those people. Most colonists' emigration to America was an act of rejection of some kind, whether it was to escape something or to pursue opportunities unavailable in England or western Europe.

                    I just cannot see how you get to the comment that people should feel no different about the Stars and Bars than they do about the Nazi Swastika.

                    Verstehen Sie?
                    Because both the Nazis and the Confederacy waged war against the United States.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                      Because both the Nazis and the Confederacy waged war against the United States.
                      So should we feel the same about the union jack?
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                      • Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

                        Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                        You complain about moral equivalence yet are quick to bring up Jane Fonda to justify people who committed armed treason against the United States. Again, the actions of one actress (however vile) do not nearly equate to an entire section of this country rebeling against our country.

                        Yes, I'm aware of the Lincoln quote from his second inaugural. What he got for his trouble is a bullet in the back of the head. I wonder if he might have felt a bit different about maliceg and charity if he'd somehow survived. Regardless, the men who committed that treason against the United States are celebrated as heroes and "the War of Northern Aggression" is still popular in some circles. Maybe if they'd been shown more malice and less charity they'd be remembered 150 years later as the traitors they were. People should feel no different about the Stars and Bars as they do about the Nazi Swastika.
                        You need help. Lots of it. Your monomaniacal rantings equating yahoos who celebrate the Confederacy with the Third Reich are delusional. A review of the relevant posts will reveal a discussion on the limits of "opposing government policies" during the Vietnam era was on the table. Burd and I were discussing the limits to that opposition. And you jumped in, frothing at the mouth about the Confederacy. It is you who changed the subject. It is you who offered a moral equivalency argument. Not I.
                        Last edited by Old Pio; 06-01-2014, 02:25 PM.
                        2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

                          Originally posted by MinnesotaNorthStar View Post
                          So should we feel the same about the union jack?
                          And the Tri Coleur? And the flag of Mexico?
                          2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by MinnesotaNorthStar View Post
                            So should we feel the same about the union jack?
                            In the time that has passed the United States and Great Britain have normalized relations and become allies. It's not like we have monuments or celebrate King George III or Lord Cornwallis. It wasn't something that happened overnight. We have also normalized relations with the Vietnamese - one of my hockey players piloted the first American Naval vessel to visit Vietnam since 1975. We never normalized relations with the Confederacy. The last act of their government consisted of Jeff Davis running around the South dressed as a woman to escape capture. Lincoln might have normalized relations but we'll never know because a Confederate sympathizer put a bullet in his head.

                            Reconstruction was off to a good start but then a raw deal ended it and ushered in nearly a century of Jim Crow laws. Maybe, just maybe, if people in the South had grown up learning that Lee and Jackson were traitors instead of heroes to be admired, attitudes might have changed. However that never happened. They are still celebrated and a good portion of those in Southern states still think Negroes should have the same rights as lawn furniture.

                            And yes, OP, I know people back then identified themselves as Democrats but the parties reversed roles in the 1950's and 60's.

                            Comment


                            • Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

                              Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                              In the time that has passed the United States and Great Britain have normalized relations and become allies. It's not like we have monuments or celebrate King George III or Lord Cornwallis. It wasn't something that happened overnight. We have also normalized relations with the Vietnamese - one of my hockey players piloted the first American Naval vessel to visit Vietnam since 1975. We never normalized relations with the Confederacy. The last act of their government consisted of Jeff Davis running around the South dressed as a woman to escape capture. Lincoln might have normalized relations but we'll never know because a Confederate sympathizer put a bullet in his head.

                              Reconstruction was off to a good start but then a raw deal ended it and ushered in nearly a century of Jim Crow laws. Maybe, just maybe, if people in the South had grown up learning that Lee and Jackson were traitors instead of heroes to be admired, attitudes might have changed. However that never happened. They are still celebrated and a good portion of those in Southern states still think Negroes should have the same rights as lawn furniture.

                              And yes, OP, I know people back then identified themselves as Democrats but the parties reversed roles in the 1950's and 60's.
                              I'd recommend an application of the First Rule of Holes here. But you're "pregnant with celestial fire" on the subject of punishing the South, so it would be a waste of time. I think you've exposed yourself as creepily unbalanced on the subject. No harm done, of course. But, dude, that was like 150 years ago! Your prejudices are not evidence of anything, except perhaps your inability to think clearly.

                              George Wallace, Orville Faubus, Lester Mattox, the Grand Cyclops Bobby Byrd, et al--them boys didn't just "identify" themselves as Democrats, they wuz Democrats.
                              Last edited by Old Pio; 06-01-2014, 05:19 PM.
                              2011 Poser of the Year & Pulitzer Prize winning machine gunner.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Old Pio View Post
                                I'd recommend an application of the First Rule of Holes here. But you're "pregnant with celestial fire" on the subject of punishing the South, so it would be a waste of time. I think you've exposed yourself as creepily unbalanced on the subject. No harm done, of course. But, dude, that was like 150 years ago! Your prejudices are not evidence of anything, except perhaps your inability to think clearly.

                                George Wallace, Orville Faubus, Lester Mattox, the Grand Cyclops Bobby Byrd, et al--them boys didn't just "identify" themselves as Democrats, they wuz Democrats.
                                And you have an unhealthy preoccupation with events that happened 20-60 years ago.

                                I know my views on the South and the Civil War are not mainstream. However, I think many of the problems that exist today are because the South wasn't humbled the way they should have been after they collectively committed treason against this country. As former Congressman Tom Allen told us after the 2004 election: It's time to reexamine Lincoln's place in history...he had a chance to let the Southern states leave and he blew it. (said tongue in cheek)

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