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AldenPartridge1819
03-16-2012, 10:46 PM
I can wish, right.

I mean, sure, LP is great and all, but it kinda sucks for these guys to have to play in front of an empty building. I think the old way was much more enjoyable.

LakerFan99
03-16-2012, 11:03 PM
It wasn't empty. Yes, there were a lot of empty seats but I would say there was a good 4-5 thousand in attendance.

joecct
03-17-2012, 06:09 AM
2100 game 1
3100 game 2

NorthernPike
03-17-2012, 07:59 AM
I don't think it needs to be back on campus. Last years FF in Minneapolis at the Ridder was a great venue.

AldenPartridge1819
03-17-2012, 08:11 AM
I don't think it needs to be back on campus. Last years FF in Minneapolis at the Ridder was a great venue.

Yet also half empty...

jacketfan
03-17-2012, 08:54 AM
Yet also half empty... I was at the Ridder last year and the place was close to full for the title game.It's nice to see a full building but what are your sightlines and are you turning people away.I don't know if there's a perfect solution for hosting the games.

GBhockeygal
03-17-2012, 09:07 AM
It would just be nice to be in or very short distance of a major city so travel is LESS complicated; I get it that LP is am amazing venue, but not simple to fly there and one long _ss drive from out west.....

AldenPartridge1819
03-17-2012, 09:07 AM
I was at the Ridder last year and the place was close to full for the title game.It's nice to see a full building but what are your sightlines and are you turning people away.I don't know if there's a perfect solution for hosting the games.

I hear you. I'm only saying that I think the players deserve more. It throws off the whole feel of the game to play in a place that is empty. Many fans just can't afford to get to neutral site games, even if that site is only a few hours away.

snc1
03-17-2012, 10:02 AM
It would just be nice to be in or very short distance of a major city so travel is LESS complicated; I get it that LP is am amazing venue, but not simple to fly there and one long _ss drive from out west.....

You can get to LP easily if you are willing to connect to a prop plane in Boston and touch down in Saranac Lake. $$$$;)

hawk
03-17-2012, 10:12 AM
Guys Lake Placid is a great place to hold a tournament. Flying into Burlington or Albany and taking a bus to LP is not go deal,

AldenPartridge1819
03-17-2012, 10:18 AM
Guys Lake Placid is a great place to hold a tournament. Flying into Burlington or Albany and taking a bus to LP is not go deal,

Not a big deal except on the wallet. Nevermind a flight, I know a lot of great Norwich fans that just couldn't afford/weren't able to get off work to head over there yesterday.

norm1909
03-17-2012, 10:27 AM
For the record, it is the intent of the NCAA to merge the DI & DIII Ice Hockey Championships (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/DIII%20Governance/Management%20Council/20111017/sup_06_MC_Championship%20Report_9-11_.pdf)*, AND to also incorporate professional franchise's as official sponsors, that is where the future of the "Final Four" lies - for better or worse.

* see note on page 11:


Championship Date Formula Change. The committee accepted as information that the men’s ice hockey committee anticipates requesting a championship date formula change to facilitate a joint championship format with Division I men’s ice hockey in 2015.


Also on page 17:


Division III Men’s Ice Hockey – Term Extension Request. The men’s ice hockey committee requested that the term of Bruce Delventhal, director of athletics at Plattsburgh State University of New York, be extended for one year. Mr. Delventhal is the chair of the committee, and the committee indicated that allowing him to serve until September 1, 2012, would greatly help to facilitate the process of combining the Division III championship with the Division I championship. The NCAA Division III Nominating Committee supported this request.

PS - Don't shoot the messenger.

snc1
03-17-2012, 10:31 AM
Guys Lake Placid is a great place to hold a tournament. Flying into Burlington or Albany and taking a bus to LP is not go deal,

You are correct. Flying to Albany and the two hour drive is not that bad. Plus, Dlll fans rule LP on tourney weekend. Wasn't as fun in Minneapolis when you only saw fans at the arena.

PrezdeJohnson09
03-17-2012, 10:34 AM
Not a big deal except on the wallet. Nevermind a flight, I know a lot of great Norwich fans that just couldn't afford/weren't able to get off work to head over there yesterday.

I'm starting to wonder if Lake Placid has run its course.

If Plattsburgh was in, obviously attendance would have been better but Norwich is probably the second team you would want there after Plattsburgh and the arena definitely had a lot of empty seats.

There is no perfect solution to this for sure but being at RIT right now, you can't beat the home festive atmosphere of having the host team playing the tournament in their own rink. I know not naming a host a week until the tournament is pretty tough ordeal and obviously many, if not all Division III schools don't have the infrastructure and resources that RIT has to pull off a tournament of this magnitude in such a short time. They do a tremendous job IMHO.

norm1909
03-17-2012, 10:49 AM
I'm starting to wonder if Lake Placid has run its course....

Well it WILL be there next year, and starting 2015 it will become "the Final Four x 2" so 2014 is still up for grabs, presumably at a west site, but who knows? I wont be surprised to see the last DIII standalone tournment be held in Lake Placid, it has the infrastructure and ORDA is certainly ready & willing.

snc1
03-17-2012, 10:50 AM
I'm starting to wonder if Lake Placid has run its course.

If Plattsburgh was in, obviously attendance would have been better but Norwich is probably the second team you would want there after Plattsburgh and the arena definitely had a lot of empty seats.

There is no perfect solution to this for sure but being at RIT right now, you can't beat the home festive atmosphere of having the host team playing the tournament in their own rink. I know not naming a host a week until the tournament is pretty tough ordeal and obviously many, if not all Division III schools don't have the infrastructure and resources that RIT has to pull off a tournament of this magnitude in such a short time. They do a tremendous job IMHO.

Agreed with your statement of having run its course.
If this was the first time I would have been going to LP I would have gone, but after two times the nostalgia has kind of wore off.
Still a great place for an event but every year may be overkill?

snc1
03-17-2012, 10:52 AM
Well it WILL be there next year, and starting 2015 it will become "the Final Four x 2" so 2014 is still up for grabs, presumably at a west site, but who knows? I wont be surprised to see the last DIII standalone tournment be held in Lake Placid, it has the infrastructure and ORDA is certainly ready & willing.

Do you think that the NCAA will combine the two divisions championships? The NCAA has always wanted to spend the least amount of money on Dlll as possible. So Gavin's to fly for teams to wherever would bust the budget.

norm1909
03-17-2012, 10:55 AM
Do you think that the NCAA will combine the two divisions championships? The NCAA has always wanted to spend the least amount of money on Dlll as possible. So Gavin's to fly for teams to wherever would bust the budget.

I don't think it - I read it here: REPORT OF THE NCAA DIVISION III CHAMPIONSHIPS COMMITTEE (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/DIII%20Governance/Management%20Council/20111017/sup_06_MC_Championship%20Report_9-11_.pdf).

Excerpt below is from page 11:


Championship Date Formula Change. The committee accepted as information that the men’s ice hockey committee anticipates requesting a championship date formula change to facilitate a joint championship format with Division I men’s ice hockey in 2015.

norm1909
03-17-2012, 11:08 AM
For the economics of the Joint DI/DIII championships, decipher this NCAA document:
Professional Sports Organizations Sponsorship of Intercollegiate Competition Events (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/DI_Champs_Sports_Mgmt_Cab/2011/June%202011/Supp_25_Pro_Sports_Sponsorship.pdf)

Which among much else, includes this excerpt:


While the original issue centered on NCAA championships, the agreed-on outcomes are presented to apply for any intercollegiate competition event so that institutions and conferences would not be held to a different standard than the NCAA. However, each division is not required to have the same legislation for institutions, conferences and the NCAA within its own division. For example, Division III could treat conference competition different than NCAA championship competition. Further, each division may vary in how they approach institutions and conferences. For example, Division I may have a different standard for conference competition than Division II. It is strongly advised, however, that each division agree on the same legislation for NCAA championships (competition and ancillary events) in order to ensure a consistent championships experience for student-athletes in all divisions. In particular, for combined championships such as men's lacrosse (Divisions I, II and III), women's lacrosse (Divisions II and III), women's rowing (Divisions I, II and III) and a future combined championship in men's ice hockey (Divisions I and III), a result that has the divisions with different legislation for NCAA championships creates practical implications that would likely mean combined championships would no longer occur.

PSUChamps2001
03-17-2012, 01:46 PM
I hear you. I'm only saying that I think the players deserve more. It throws off the whole feel of the game to play in a place that is empty. Many fans just can't afford to get to neutral site games, even if that site is only a few hours away.

Yea because it would be SOOO much cheaper to travel to Norwich where 2200 is a sell out ....:rolleyes::rolleyes: Heck lets go to Amherst where you can hardly fit 1,000 people in there. The last 18 NCAA FF games NOT at a neutral site (1999-2005) averaged 2100 fans. Since then the Final Four has averaged nearly 3,100...so apparantly fans can still afford to go to games compared to years past when the economy was better and gas was cheaper, even when 4 of the 6 were at Midd or Norwich.

And I will say it again, if Lake Placid can host the little thing they call the Olympics, the can host a freakn DIII Final Four. Sure RIT is nice...Are you going to fit ALL PSU, Midd, Norwich, Oswego, Elmira, ect ect fans in their rink? Or what happens when Amherst makes the push to #1, or god for bid Potsdam or Hobart?? There are only a HANDFUL of teams (like 6) who average more then 50% capacity...so most players/fans (besides your Oswego, Utica, Norwich, Plattsburgh, SNC) are use to playing in an half empty barn. Sure HBA is listed at 7700, but a full 3-5,000+ lower bowl is more then 99% of what the teams are use to. The Championship game a few years ago between Gusties and Neumann still drew 3100+. Thats more then EVERY game from 1999-2005 which included SEVERAL big teams.

Yes it sucks Lake Placid is not 10 minutes from New York City or a stone throw from your backdoor, I'm so sorry. So we should just change it to play in megotropolis Northfield? What's the airport code for Northfield? How many bus terminals? I imagine you must have every major airline flying out of Northfield as well no? I too remember the old days of finding out Saturday night if my team was going to the Final Four, and then Sunday evening making plans with your buddies on who's driving who, and who's leaving when.

If you want to host a FF in DIII, you have to have the capacity of 4,000 + , period!

Having said all that, I'd be in a big favor of say maybe an 4 region system (Lake Placid, Boston, Atlantic City and Minn/Wisc) or even toss in Rochester/Buffalo/Syracuse in there. Heck even the Aud in Utica or Albany. Problem is NO ONE WANTS TO BID ON IT!! Buffalo (Buff State/Fredonia/SUNYAC), Syracuse (Oswego/Cortland, Hamilton, Morrisville), Rochester (NAZ, Elmira, Hobart, Geneseo, Brockport), Albany (Skidmore, Williams, Middlebury), Atlantic City (Neumann), Boston (okay too many to name). But as I said BID ON IT!!

Lake Placid is a GREAT hockey town/area and a "short" central location for the big three (or 4 now) Norwich, Plattsburgh, Middlebury, Oswego. I'm still not sold on the whole "DI/DIII" thing unless DI is willing to keep it "near" DIII schools. Obviously Minny, Lake Placid, Boston will be okay, but Denver? California? Florida? Lots of DIII teams out there. It's not the fact I don't mind playing second fiddle, but yikes.