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Gophers #1
02-21-2012, 09:03 PM
DULUTH, Minn. - Students who own season tickets to Minnesota-Duluth's men's hockey games are being warned to shape up after reports of racist chants during recent games against the North Dakota Fighting Sioux.

Athletic Director Bob Nielson sent students a letter warning that inappropriate comments directed at officials or other teams could get them tossed from the arena, or cost them their tickets.

http://www.kare11.com/news/article/963397/396/Duluth-hockey-fans-warned-after-racist-chants

The Rube
02-21-2012, 09:15 PM
I'll admit, I've used some of the same chants that tUMD students used, the same with some friends of mine. They were never at games, though. Only at bars/tailgates. I subscribe to the "there's a time and a place for everything" philosophy.

Shirtless Guy
02-21-2012, 09:27 PM
Why is so hard for people to grasp the difference between a nickname and a mascot? UND doesn't have a mascot, even with the nickname reinstated.

The Rube
02-21-2012, 09:33 PM
Why is so hard for people to grasp the difference between a nickname and a mascot? UND does have a mascot, even with the nickname reinstated.
I think you mean they don't have a mascot. They have a logo/nickname, but no mascot. See: the Indian for FSU that rides out to midfield for FSU football as an example.

mnstate0fhockey
02-21-2012, 10:00 PM
I think these chants are of very poor taste. Very, very poor taste. Not only are they racist, but they are making light of what was essentially genocide.

I'm all for chants, and don't mind looking the other way with some of the distasteful things students chant sometimes, but this definitely crosses some lines.

Shirtless Guy
02-21-2012, 10:05 PM
I think you mean they don't have a mascot. They have a logo/nickname, but no mascot. See: the Indian for FSU that rides out to midfield for FSU football as an example.Yup, sorry typing too fast and not doublechecking, thanks.

duper
02-21-2012, 10:09 PM
I agree with mnstateofhockey. Regardless of the reason for the chant, regardless of one's opinion about UND or the Sioux name or anything else, there just really isn't anything funny about some of those things.

Frankly, I know kids will be kids, but the things that student sections chant in general seem pretty embarrassing. Of course, I hear DU more than anyone else, and I know that our arena is widely held (probably correctly) as a crappy example of school spirit, but I just don't understand (and I swear to God I'm not 1000 years old) why vulgarity, rudeness and mean-spirited insults pass for wit and team spirit.

Happy
02-21-2012, 10:17 PM
Why is so hard for people to grasp the difference between a nickname and a mascot? UND doesn't have a mascot, even with the nickname reinstated.


Of course they have a mascot, it is a Fighting Sioux, and if you go to their arena, you can see thousands and thousands of images of it.

The Rube
02-21-2012, 10:17 PM
Of course they have a mascot, it is a Fighting Sioux, and if you go to their arena, you can see thousands and thousands of images of it.

That would be a logo. Not a mascot.

duper
02-21-2012, 10:23 PM
That would be a logo. Not a mascot.No one from North Dakota wants to admit this, but this argument is mostly semantic.

What they of course mean is that their mascot is only a static 2-dimensional image and not an animated 3-dimensional character of some kind. The point is well-taken in the sense that the image is probably genuinely intended by them to be respectful where the 3-dimensional character always, or at least almost always, becomes a caricature. But the definition of mascot does not exclude the static 2-dimensional image, so literally speaking, yes, The University of North Dakota does have a mascot.

From the OED Online: "A person or thing that is supposed to bring good luck; (now) esp. something carried or displayed for this purpose. Also: a thing (often an animal or personified character) used by an organization, esp. a sports team, as a symbol or for good luck; an emblem."

The Rube
02-21-2012, 10:26 PM
No one from North Dakota wants to admit this, but this argument is mostly semantic.

What they of course mean is that their mascot is only a static 2-dimensional image and not an animated 3-dimensional character of some kind. The point is well-taken in the sense that the image is probably genuinely intended by them to be respectful where the 3-dimensional character always, or at least almost always, becomes a caricature. But the definition of mascot does not exclude the static 2-dimensional image, so literally speaking, yes, The University of North Dakota does have a mascot.

It is semantics, but not. The caricature part is the most important detail, IMO. That's where a lot of teams get/got in trouble.

duper
02-21-2012, 10:37 PM
It is semantics, but not. The caricature part is the most important detail, IMO. That's where a lot of teams get/got in trouble.I agree with you in principle. But some North Dakota fans get so adamant about not having a mascot, when in fact they do.

And certainly, no one ever gets upset about a caricature of an animal, where I think that North Dakota has been wise to stick with the type of representation they have. Frankly, my whole post here is not to be inflammatory, but for years now, the claim that North Dakota has no mascot has bugged the language stickler in me. Now I'm on record with it, and I think I can leave it alone in future. :)

The Rube
02-21-2012, 10:45 PM
I agree with you in principle. But some North Dakota fans get so adamant about not having a mascot, when in fact they do.

And certainly, no one ever gets upset about a caricature of an animal, where I think that North Dakota has been wise to stick with the type of representation they have. Frankly, my whole post here is not to be inflammatory, but for years now, the claim that North Dakota has no mascot has bugged the language stickler in me. Now I'm on record with it, and I think I can leave it alone in future. :)

And while I hate UND with such a passion, I do recognize the difference between the mascot/logo argument.

ExileOnDaytonStreet
02-22-2012, 12:41 AM
http://www.kare11.com/news/article/963397/396/Duluth-hockey-fans-warned-after-racist-chants

Although the "smallpox" reference mentioned in the article probably was enough to warrant this reaction, I can't help but assume that there were other, worse stuff being said.

(This from a guy who once unsuccessfully tried to work "Manifest Destiny" into a cheer.)

Oh, and I'm with duper on the mascot issue. They have a mascot, it just takes its form on a 2D image instead of a cheerleader in a goofy costume.

Old Pio
02-22-2012, 03:14 AM
I suppose it doesn't make any difference that the reference to "smallpox blankets" came from the imagination of psuedo-Indian Ward Churchill, who was found by a faculty committee at CU to be both a liar and a plagiarist. The deliberate use of infected blankets never happened. Churchill made it up.

InebriatedMike
02-22-2012, 07:28 AM
This is silly and a slow news day.

beersong
02-22-2012, 07:35 AM
Although the "smallpox" reference mentioned in the article probably was enough to warrant this reaction, I can't help but assume that there were other, worse stuff being said.

That was the worst I heard that weekend. "We stole your land" and the tomahawk chop also were done but those are mild in comparison IMO. The loudest one was "We have trees." And tWave was done which I find much more offensive. :)

AHABulldog
02-22-2012, 07:56 AM
The loudest one was "We have trees."

Ialwayslovedthatone

davyd83
02-22-2012, 08:05 AM
No one from North Dakota wants to admit this, but this argument is mostly semantic.

What they of course mean is that their mascot is only a static 2-dimensional image and not an animated 3-dimensional character of some kind. The point is well-taken in the sense that the image is probably genuinely intended by them to be respectful where the 3-dimensional character always, or at least almost always, becomes a caricature. But the definition of mascot does not exclude the static 2-dimensional image, so literally speaking, yes, The University of North Dakota does have a mascot.

From the OED Online: "A person or thing that is supposed to bring good luck; (now) esp. something carried or displayed for this purpose. Also: a thing (often an animal or personified character) used by an organization, esp. a sports team, as a symbol or for good luck; an emblem."

Don't go confusing the issue with facts!

mnstate0fhockey
02-22-2012, 08:09 AM
I suppose it doesn't make any difference that the reference to "smallpox blankets" came from the imagination of psuedo-Indian Ward Churchill, who was found by a faculty committee at CU to be both a liar and a plagiarist. The deliberate use of infected blankets never happened. Churchill made it up.

The British actually <a href="http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1088/did-whites-ever-give-native-americans-blankets-infected-with-smallpox">discussed doing it</a> during the French and Indian War, so it's not all make-believe.