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View Full Version : Suspend Kyle Rau for as long as Jason Zucker is unable to play!



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Tipsy McStagger
02-14-2012, 01:41 PM
TOO MUCH Trash talk.

The problem isn't the trash talk. It is that the players are trying to stop the trash talk by barrelling into each other wearing padding and helmets and traveling at 25-30 mph while carrying weapons. If you can't handle some trash talk, you should probably not be playing hockey and instead be getting psychotherapy.

If anything, the WCHA isn't suspending enough for hits, because I guarantee if all of the hits from last weekend that deserved a 1-game suspension actually got them, you would start seeing less and less of these hits. I am sure there are many people who are bigger hockey fans than I, and have been watching the game for longer than I have. But despite the fact that hitting is a part of hockey, it should probably be a lot smaller part of the game. Because back in the early days of the game, it was more about the game itself and less about flying around the ice at high speeds and smashing into people.

mnstate0fhockey
02-14-2012, 01:54 PM
The problem isn't the trash talk. It is that the players are trying to stop the trash talk by barrelling into each other wearing padding and helmets and traveling at 25-30 mph while carrying weapons. If you can't handle some trash talk, you should probably not be playing hockey and instead be getting psychotherapy.

If anything, the WCHA isn't suspending enough for hits, because I guarantee if all of the hits from last weekend that deserved a 1-game suspension actually got them, you would start seeing less and less of these hits. I am sure there are many people who are bigger hockey fans than I, and have been watching the game for longer than I have. But despite the fact that hitting is a part of hockey, it should probably be a lot smaller part of the game. Because back in the early days of the game, it was more about the game itself and less about flying around the ice at high speeds and smashing into people.

No disagreement with any of this. I don't think Gopher fans are as upset about Rau getting suspended as they are about the very inconsistent handling of the supplementary discipline process. It should be based on the nature of the hit/play, not the outcome/result (injuries) of the hit/play.

Three reasons (and I'm not saying either are applicable to this situation):

1. If the result of the hit is the primary factor in handing out suspensions for dangerous hits, what is to prevent the victimized team from declaring the player hit as injured until the suspension is handed out, then clearing him to play? And what does it say about the process if you then reverse a suspension just because the player is no longer hurt?

2. Some injuries (such as concussions) aren't as evident (at least the severity) right away.

3. Do you suspend a player for a clean check just because the guy he hit gets injured?

Old Pio
02-14-2012, 01:57 PM
One other note. It was NOT a late hit. You are allowed to finish your check, and that includes up to what I believe in the NCAA is up to a few seconds after the puck is gone. Watch the replay, Rau hits him only a few seconds after Zucker gets rid of the puck. I checked with the head of officiating for MNHS hockey and he said they wouldn't have considered it late in their games either.

Problem is, as I have mentioned before, it was CLEARLY a charge and a hit to the head. In addition to contact to the head and checks from behind, I think all charges should warrant major penalties as well, if not game ejections in addition. At least ones as agregious as Rau's.



There have been numerous moronic comments made on this thread. And, yes, I've contributed my share. But this is the all time, certified, we don't have to wait for the judges, dumbest comment I've seen. To assert that Rau's hit wasn't late, despite the evidence of our eyes, is simply unbelievable. And if, in the unlikely event the head of officiating for MNHS actually agrees, you guys need to get a new head official, stat.

You said it yourself: "Rau hits him only a few seconds after Zucker gets rid of the puck." That's right, he did. It was a chicken bleep move and he was punished for it. As he should have been.

mnstate0fhockey
02-14-2012, 02:01 PM
There have been numerous moronic comments made on this thread. And, yes, I've contributed my share. But this is the all time, certified, we don't have to wait for the judges, dumbest comment I've seen. To assert that Rau's hit wasn't late, despite the evidence of our eyes, is simply unbelievable. And if, in the unlikely event the head of officiating for MNHS actually agrees, you guys need to get a new head official, stat.

You said it yourself: "Rau hits him only a few seconds after Zucker gets rid of the puck." That's right, he did. It was a chicken bleep move and he was punished for it. As he should have been.

According to the rules, as they are written, it was not a late hit (interference). You are allowed to finish your check up toa few seconds after the puck is gone. <a href="http://www.firstroundbust.com/2012/02/hits-jason-zucker-zack-phillips.html">Watch the replay</a> and tell me that Rau hit Zucker beyond 2 seconds. He didn't.

BTW - The name calling and sarcasm don't strengthen your point.

Old Pio
02-14-2012, 02:06 PM
According to the rules, as they are written, it was not a late hit (interference). You are allowed to finish your check up toa few seconds after the puck is gone. <a href="http://www.firstroundbust.com/2012/02/hits-jason-zucker-zack-phillips.html">Watch the replay</a> and tell me that Rau hit Zucker beyond 2 seconds. He didn't.

BTW - The name calling and sarcasm don't strengthen your point.

And the "I'm waiting for the Dewey votes" attitude of Gopher die hards doesn't strengthen their points, either. I'm reasonably confident if Zucker had cheap shotted Rau, you, especially, and the rest of the chorale, wouldn't be making legalistic arguments about how many seconds late JZ was. You're NOT allowed to do what he did. And the vast majority of Gopher posters have come to agree. You're on your own here. You and that idiot high school official.

4four4
02-14-2012, 02:09 PM
Zucker did nothing wrong, Rau did.

He did something wrong after his goal, he used poor sportsmanship by chirping by the Minnesota bench.

goldy_331
02-14-2012, 02:11 PM
He did something wrong after his goal, he used poor sportsmanship by chirping by the Minnesota bench.

Pfft, happens on EVERY goal to some extent, don't think Rau doesn't do it too.

4four4
02-14-2012, 02:13 PM
Pfft, happens on EVERY goal to some extent, don't think Rau doesn't do it too.

I never said it was right. Sheez.

mnstate0fhockey
02-14-2012, 02:20 PM
And the "I'm waiting for the Dewey votes" attitude of Gopher die hards doesn't strengthen their points, either. I'm reasonably confident if Zucker had cheap shotted Rau, you, especially, and the rest of the chorale, wouldn't be making legalistic arguments about how many seconds late JZ was. You're NOT allowed to do what he did. And the vast majority of Gopher posters have come to agree. You're on your own here. You and that idiot high school official.

When did I ever say Rau's hit was clean? I think I mentioned two very specific examples of how it was not. It just wasn't "late". I gotta say, you're making very little sense.

You ARE allowed to hit a guy up to a few seconds after he releases the puck. You are NOT allowed to take three or more strides before you hit him, NOR are you allowed to hit him in the head.

dogs2012
02-14-2012, 02:40 PM
When did I ever say Rau's hit was clean? I think I mentioned two very specific examples of how it was not. It just wasn't "late". I gotta say, you're making very little sense.

You ARE allowed to hit a guy up to a few seconds after he releases the puck. You are NOT allowed to take three or more strides before you hit him, NOR are you allowed to hit him in the head.

He let go of the puck, THEN Rau took a few strides, then hit Zucker in the head. You're allowed to finish your check IF it's in a reasonable manor. You can guide someone into the boards to finish a check immediately after they get rid of the puck, but you can't headhunt a guy 2-3 seconds after he gets rid of the puck while he's defenseless. It's not called finishing a check, it's called a dirty play.

ScoobyDoo
02-14-2012, 02:51 PM
It was late. No sense arguing about it.

mnstate0fhockey
02-14-2012, 02:58 PM
He let go of the puck, THEN Rau took a few strides, then hit Zucker in the head. You're allowed to finish your check IF it's in a reasonable manor. You can guide someone into the boards to finish a check immediately after they get rid of the puck, but you can't headhunt a guy 2-3 seconds after he gets rid of the puck while he's defenseless. It's not called finishing a check, it's called a dirty play.

According to the rules, it wasn't late. Ultimately it is up to the ref's discretion, but I don't think Rau would have been called for interference had he not charged or made contact with Zucker's head.

And I am not defending the hit. It was a blatant charge, and contact to the head. It was not, in my opinion, interference.

Bale
02-14-2012, 02:58 PM
According to the rules, as they are written, it was not a late hit (interference). You are allowed to finish your check up toa few seconds after the puck is gone. <a href="http://www.firstroundbust.com/2012/02/hits-jason-zucker-zack-phillips.html">Watch the replay</a> and tell me that Rau hit Zucker beyond 2 seconds. He didn't.

BTW - The name calling and sarcasm don't strengthen your point.

That is absolutely not true. It was a late hit according to the way the NCAA calls them. As I posted earlier in the thread directly from the NCAA's own rule book. I bolded the parts that are of special consideration in this case.


So, a couple of points here. No, it shouldn't be a DQ because he got hurt. The reason that it should be a DQ or game misconduct is because of the way that Rau approached Zucker and they way he checked him. According to the rules that the NCAA has published and focused on, this was exactly the type of play that they were trying to eliminate. Just a couple of lines from the points of emphasis section of the 2010-2012 NCAA rulebook...

*To make this rule clearer, any time a player targets the head or neck area of an opponent, it must be a major penalty and a game misconduct penalty at a minimum.
* The committee reminds coaches and players that the responsibility remains with the player making the hit to avoid contact with the head and neck area of an opposing player. Any contact which directly targets the player’s head and neck area must be penalized with a major penalty and a game misconduct or disqualification. A player delivering a check to an unsuspecting and vulnerable player puts themselves in jeopardy of being penalized under this rule.


* Officials are to pay particular attention to these examples when applying this rule. These are intended as guidance and include, but are not limited to, the following:
• A player that has just released a shot or pass;
• A player that delivers a late hit;
• A player that extends and directs the arm, elbow, forearm or shoulder to contact the head and neck area of the opponent;
• A player that leaves the skates or launches in order to deliver a blow to the head or neck area of the opposing player.

The other thing about this is that, it doesn't matter if one of the referees didn't see the penalty occur. On this kind of a penalty, the linesman are able to assist the referee to make the call. There is an assumption being made that they called this a game misconduct because of the injury, but that's not necessarily true. The linesman is able to go to the referee and explain to him what he saw.

mnstate0fhockey
02-14-2012, 03:02 PM
That is absolutely not true. It was a late hit according to the way the NCAA calls them. As I posted earlier in the thread directly from the NCAA's own rule book. I bolded the parts that are of special consideration in this case.

None of the bolded items dispute the point I am making. Again, I am not disputing the fact that Rau's hit was a charge or that Rau's hit was to Zucker's head. Both are grounds for possible major penalties and game ejections. Not disputing any of that.

There is no "late hit" penalty. This isn't football. It's called "interference" and according to the rule for interference as it relates to hitting a player after he releases the puck, you are allowed up to two seconds to finish a check. Rau was within that parameter, but it was close.

First Time, Long Time
02-14-2012, 03:13 PM
He did something wrong after his goal, he used poor sportsmanship by chirping by the Minnesota bench.

No he didn't.
It happens after nearly every goal, it's not against the rules to talk trash (meaning there is no specific rule saying you can't trash talk) and if you think any player, especially ones with high talent and a high ego are going to keep their mouths shut after scoring a goal like that, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Even with all that, let's say for arguement sake that Zucker did do something "wrong" by talking, in no way does that justify a late charge with contact to the head.

Gurtholfin
02-14-2012, 03:20 PM
The hit was, however, within the two second window allowed by the rule book to finish one's check. Therefore, it wasn't interference "late".

It wasn't called interference. What are you trying to argue here?

manurespreader
02-14-2012, 03:27 PM
Finishing a check implies that you have started it already, which is debatable.

mnstate0fhockey
02-14-2012, 03:30 PM
It wasn't called interference. What are you trying to argue here?

It's really a dumb argument I admit because it doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things or effect the outcome. I have just heard a lot of people refer to the hit as a "late hit". There isn't a penalty in hockey for a "late hit". There is a penalty for hitting someone without the puck. It's called "interference". And according to the rule book, this hit was not interference.

It was a charge, and contact to the head. Both warrant the major penalty and ejection. I was just pointing out that it wasn't interference. I think I made my point and am probably just beating it into the ground now, so I'll drop it :)

mnstate0fhockey
02-14-2012, 03:32 PM
Finishing a check implies that you have started it already, which is debatable.

He started his progress to make the check long before he got rid of the puck, and a ways away from Zucker. Which is a textbook definition of a charge.

Bale
02-14-2012, 03:35 PM
None of the bolded items dispute the point I am making. Again, I am not disputing the fact that Rau's hit was a charge or that Rau's hit was to Zucker's head. Both are grounds for possible major penalties and game ejections. Not disputing any of that.

There is no "late hit" penalty. This isn't football. It's called "interference" and according to the rule for interference as it relates to hitting a player after he releases the puck, you are allowed up to two seconds to finish a check. Rau was within that parameter, but it was close.

You're arguing semantics here only to make yourself feel better about being "right". It was a late hit due to the fact that he had released the puck and was in a defenseless position. If it weren't late and he still had the puck it wouldn't have been late. Therefore, it was a late hit. The reason, presumably, that he was suspended is because he went in high, he went in late (ie there was no reason to "finish the check"), and he hit a defenseless man that no longer had the puck. It was just plain old dirty. Nothing more, nothing less.

Besides, it wasn't called interference, it was called boarding. It's a moot point that you're trying to make and really offers no substance. I have no idea why this is such a big issue that it's not being classified right in your mind. He did it. It was a bad thing for him to do. Hopefully he doesn't do it again. And it's done.