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hockeydad94
02-01-2012, 11:49 AM
What is everyone’s experience with recruiting promises being kept? Is this different for D1 versus D3? What recourse is there if a promise is made in the recruiting process that is not kept? Obviously if it is in an offer letter, that is the best. What if the coach wants to keep it verbal and doesn’t follow through?

DC78-82
02-01-2012, 11:59 AM
What is everyone’s experience with recruiting promises being kept? Is this different for D1 versus D3? What recourse is there if a promise is made in the recruiting process that is not kept? Obviously if it is in an offer letter, that is the best. What if the coach wants to keep it verbal and doesn’t follow through?

As with most everything, get it in writing. As pertains to hockey, or NCAA, actually, It is spelled out by the NCAA (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Legislation+and+Governance/Eligibility+and+Recruiting/Faqs/nli_financial_aid.html)

gopher2008
02-01-2012, 03:57 PM
I feel like the DI recruiting process has changed a lot over the last few years so my feedback may no longer apply, however regarding some of the verbal promises made, here are my two cents....One cent for each division....

In Div I I don't know if I have seen a lot of empty promises, or foreseeably out-right lies, but there is a situation that was common enough at one time that has probably left players feeling like they were deceived. When a coach keeps in contact with a player, expressing their interest in the player, their plans for the player blah blah blah, but does not seem to bring up the topic of sending out the offer letter, or getting something in writing, then the player may be a "bubble player"; essentially a back up recruit. This is a rough situation, because there will be a lot of leading-on, but it is kind of unavoidable; and all you can do as a parent or recruit is try to ask the direct question when it seems like all you've done is talk, and no mention of something formal has come up. If you want an offer letter, ask for one, and most coaches will tell you honestly if they can't offer it until they know that spot is open - (or some may tell you to take your ACTs or SATs again or something like that just to buy time...that's a good one too...) I hope this isn't that common, especially now that the recruiting happens when kids are so freaking young these days, but definitely something I've seen before...and there is no retroactive measure that can be taken once its all said and done...

DIV III/ACHA.....To be honest I feel like I have heard a lot of scary things from DIV III and ACHA recruiters here in Canada. Some of this is on the players/parents needing to do more research, but I have heard of some Div III coaches promising some unreasonable things to young players I have coached - regarding the level of the hockey, the plans to join Div I in the next year, scholarship dollars available, size of school/quality of education....etc. I know Canadian girls that have decided to go to a Div III school 20 some hours from home and they love it, so don't get me wrong here..... but there is some pretty sleazy selling going on, by hopefully only a few select coaches. And those verbal promises - of being better than most Div I teams, of joining Div I next year, of the availability of specific majors - those verbal promises can be broken, and there is nothing that can be done.

LG4
02-01-2012, 04:00 PM
As with most everything, get it in writing. As pertains to hockey, or NCAA, actually, It is spelled out by the NCAA (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Legislation+and+Governance/Eligibility+and+Recruiting/Faqs/nli_financial_aid.html)


Unfortunately the NOI first comes in Nov of the senior year and the coaches can't really give you anything in writing before then anyways -- am I wrong? I can't say I have heard of coaches changing verbal promises. I mean maybe one would have emails with amounts listed but I think coaches would be careful with that.

gotice
02-01-2012, 04:34 PM
To be quite honest, I think ever coach out there blows smoke up these young player's butts, they tell them and their parents what ever they need to in order to get them to commit; sometimes it is complete lies and other times it is a stretch of the truth. I am not quite sure how anybody can take satisfaction manipulating a young person and playing with their dreams of playing at the collegiate level. It would be a far better thing if coaches were up front and tell the truth from the beginning…don't build a kid's hopes up about what their college experience is going to be and then once a coach hooks the kid, the dream can be crushed. I think the parents and kids should record the recruiting conversations as proof of the deceit that begins with the hand shake. This practice goes on in every sport at the collegiate level. I know it has happened to lots of hockey players, male and female, I for one, thinks it is terrible to play on the dreams of young people

brookyone
02-01-2012, 04:45 PM
To be quite honest, I think ever coach out there blows smoke up these young player's butts, they tell them and their parents what ever they need to in order to get them to commit; sometimes it is complete lies and other times it is a stretch of the truth. I am not quite sure how anybody can take satisfaction manipulating a young person and playing with their dreams of playing at the collegiate level. It would be a far better thing if coaches were up front and tell the truth from the beginning…don't build a kid's hopes up about what their college experience is going to be and then once a coach hooks the kid, the dream can be crushed. I think the parents and kids should record the recruiting conversations as proof of the deceit that begins with the hand shake. This practice goes on in every sport at the collegiate level. I know it has happened to lots of hockey players, male and female, I for one, thinks it is terrible to play on the dreams of young people
Every coach?

I've heard a large enough number of tales of woe from parents to know the things you say do happen. I've heard the opposite at least as many times with very positive accounts of the process, also from parents. I've heard the flip side a few times, when a generous, honest and sincere offer is on the table...and no timely response is received by staff...with a pretty generous response time allowance too, then the offer may expire.

mattj711
02-01-2012, 04:52 PM
Every coach?

I've heard a large enough number of tales of woe from parents to know the things you say do happen. I've heard the opposite at least as many times with very positive accounts of the process, also from parents. I've heard the flip side a few times, when a generous, honest and sincere offer is on the table...and no timely response is received by staff...with a pretty generous response time allowance too, then the offer may expire.

I agree. I would not say it is every coach, but I've also heard of a good number of instances where it has happened. Some programs seem to be developing a bit of a reputation for doing this or at the very least, are good at giving that impression.

spike
02-01-2012, 05:20 PM
Whatever transpires between a coach and a recruit, we can only speculate on what was said, what was promised, and will the coach keep that promise. I think recruits will be best served if they remember the two absolutes. One, Divison I coaches never want to get the reputation of pulling an NLI in year 2, 3, or 4. As a result, if you are lucky enough to get money, and if you honor your commitment to the team, you are likely to have it for 4 years. The coach can take your playing time but as a practical matter can't (or won't) take your money. With that said, you should assume that if a coach thinks he/she has a better chance of winning with someone other than you on the ice, he'll yank your PT in a NY minute.

The second absolute seems to be that at the Division III level, there is nothing a coach can offer you that he can't take away from you. If you are planning to play DIII, you must either know that you are good enough to withstand three years of new recruits coming in, or you must assume that your position is at risk every year.

One of my pet peeves over the years has been with girls who are given roster spots at DI but are not given money. The first year they don't dress. Then the next year they dress and don't play. The player and/or the parents complain about being deceived by the coach. In such a situation I think the player and parents deceived themselves.

CanHockGuy
02-01-2012, 05:59 PM
Whatever transpires between a coach and a recruit, we can only speculate on what was said, what was promised, and will the coach keep that promise. I think recruits will be best served if they remember the two absolutes. One, Divison I coaches never want to get the reputation of pulling an NLI in year 2, 3, or 4. As a result, if you are lucky enough to get money, and if you honor your commitment to the team, you are likely to have it for 4 years. The coach can take your playing time but as a practical matter can't (or won't) take your money. With that said, you should assume that if a coach thinks he/she has a better chance of winning with someone other than you on the ice, he'll yank your PT in a NY minute.

The second absolute seems to be that at the Division III level, there is nothing a coach can offer you that he can't take away from you. If you are planning to play DIII, you must either know that you are good enough to withstand three years of new recruits coming in, or you must assume that your position is at risk every year.

One of my pet peeves over the years has been with girls who are given roster spots at DI but are not given money. The first year they don't dress. Then the next year they dress and don't play. The player and/or the parents complain about being deceived by the coach. In such a situation I think the player and parents deceived themselves.

I think a player would have to be pretty silly to join a D1 team without any money. Regardless, in a case like this, a player might be encouraged by a coach that ice time would come later. Why else would they stay? I see your point though, the team has to look out for themselves. :(

MAOFDJJD
02-01-2012, 06:04 PM
Divison I coaches never want to get the reputation of pulling an NLI in year 2, 3, or 4. As a result, if you are lucky enough to get money, and if you honor your commitment to the team, you are likely to have it for 4 years.

LOL...that's what we kinda thought. Unfortunately, we were one of those families where the coach said what needed to be said for my daughter to commit for the 1st year. When we questioned the likelihood of her returning for 2nd, 3rd, 4th year, we were told it would depend on how she did off the ice as well as on the ice. Well, AD honor roll student both semesters, in the top 10 for scoring on her team, 90 +% faceoff wins, etc. and no invitation back, with or without money. Did the coach lie? Well, he definitely wasn't honest...so for those of you considering SU...get EVERYTHING in writing, that is if you can actually get a response from the coach.

CanHockGuy
02-01-2012, 06:23 PM
Divison I coaches never want to get the reputation of pulling an NLI in year 2, 3, or 4. As a result, if you are lucky enough to get money, and if you honor your commitment to the team, you are likely to have it for 4 years.

LOL...that's what we kinda thought. Unfortunately, we were one of those families where the coach said what needed to be said for my daughter to commit for the 1st year. When we questioned the likelihood of her returning for 2nd, 3rd, 4th year, we were told it would depend on how she did off the ice as well as on the ice. Well, AD honor roll student both semesters, in the top 10 for scoring on her team, 90 +% faceoff wins, etc. and no invitation back, with or without money. Did the coach lie? Well, he definitely wasn't honest...so for those of you considering SU...get EVERYTHING in writing, that is if you can actually get a response from the coach.

I remember you last season. Looks like things down there aren't much better. Just curious, can you go into more detail about the top ten in scoring part? A centre correct?

MAOFDJJD
02-01-2012, 06:32 PM
I remember you last season. Looks like things down there aren't much better. Just curious, can you go into more detail about the top ten in scoring part? A centre correct?


For the most part, although she played winger too.

CanHockGuy
02-01-2012, 06:37 PM
For the most part, although she played winger too.

And the numbers? Just curious.

MAOFDJJD
02-01-2012, 06:50 PM
And the numbers? Just curious.

I'd have to go back & look up her stats as it has been a few years....or you can. Look up who was on the original orange team & who wasn't invited back and who had the stats....not that hard to figure out who my daughter is.

CanHockGuy
02-01-2012, 07:05 PM
I'd have to go back & look up her stats as it has been a few years....or you can. Look up who was on the original orange team & who wasn't invited back and who had the stats....not that hard to figure out who my daughter is.

Well then, obviously they ran your kid out of town for obvious reasons. ;) Just kidding. Not meaning to be harsh, as it's a terrible thing for a coach and school to do. The last couple of seasons I have noticed an extraordinary number of commitments that just didn't fit with the team they had at the time. That was a red flag for me. :)

ref11
02-01-2012, 07:17 PM
I think a player would have to be pretty silly to join a D1 team without any money. :(

Note: No team scholarships at Ivy's. :cool:

CanHockGuy
02-01-2012, 07:28 PM
Note: No team scholarships at Ivy's. :cool:

Only a crappy ref would call that! :) I'm aware. Lots of parent money though, and plenty of assistance. They usually get what they pay for, academically speaking I hope.

WIrinkrat
02-01-2012, 09:36 PM
i'm not naive enough to think that these things don't happen...i know they do...but we also have to acknowledge that it cuts both ways. have coaches at times stretched the truth (at best) or outright lied (at worst) to get kids in the door? absolutely. have there been cases where scholarships were pulled or reduced because the coach made a poor eval? without question.

but have there been players who have left coaches high and dry by jumping ship at the last second without keeping the staff in the loop? have there been players who as a result of lack of ice time had a drastic change in their attitude and work ethic that might have led to reduced aid? have there been situations where players and/or their parents have not been able to accurately self-evaluate and hear only what they want to hear because of their heightened sense of their own greatness? you bet.

the bottom line is there are snake-oil salesmen on all sides. i'm not justifying any behaviors by any coaches...but i'd say that more often than not, the real truth about what happened in these sorts of situation lies somewhere in the middle.

ref11
02-01-2012, 10:19 PM
Only a crappy ref would call that! :) I'm aware. Lots of parent money though, and plenty of assistance. They usually get what they pay for, academically speaking I hope.

Yup - I'll give myself a misconduct and then file for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy for the tuition bills:eek:

WCHFan
02-01-2012, 11:06 PM
Please never choose a school on promises alone. Find a school you love and hope the hockey comes together. Are promises made and not kept? Absolutely!! My daughter chose school first and she is very happy, playing and doesn't pay anything. She has friends that were rated higher. Chose hockey first and are not having fun right now because of false promises. I've heard statements like he convinced me to come here and I would be a top six forward and another. I was promised I would be on the 1st line and play PP as a freshmen. One is on the forth line and another sits some games watching from the stands. Both very highly recruited players. Both chose schools where they didn't receive full rides. Both had many full ride offers. I'm sure there are many stories like this.

Yes! Coaches do not keep promises and life is tough sometimes. Ask yourself would I rather go to a school I love pay nothing and have an opportunity to play hockey and play a lot. Or do I want to go to a top hockey program and even though I'm a star now. Might not play (believe it! might not play a regular shift) and have to pay some $$ for school??