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View Full Version : Boston University 2011-2012 Season Thread: Part III: Now What?



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Hokydad
12-27-2011, 10:37 AM
Of course he is a dominant player and will have a very good pro career. He is a beter pro prospect than a college one. WJC is loaded with 1st and 2nd round nhl draft picks. They play a skilled, pro style game, thus the reason CC does so well. Hockey East is a bowling alley and way to much running around, high sticks etc.

When the NHL station did their USA review yesterday, they asked the guys 1 question, which USA player is the best pro prospect and will make quick impact there. They mentioned one player, Charlie Coyle. Not Zucker or Campbell but Charlie Coyle.

BU fans will look back at him favorably in 10-15 years. Just like everyone in Ontario loves Gretzky and pretends they always did. Not saying CC is in that class...

Terrance
12-27-2011, 10:42 AM
Another one for Coyle. Hat trick. Golly gee that guy stinks. Why would BU want a kid like that? Right Jofa?

Are you just trying to instigate or do you actually believe that scoring a hat trick against Denmark in the WJC means that he would now all the sudden have started scoring goals in NCAA games? Clearly Charlie Coyle is a good player, but he was just average at BU and there is no reason to expect he would all the sudden be this great goal scorer. He also had a hat trick in his first game at BU against Toronto but has only 10 goals in real games since. For whatever reason, he is not excelling in the NCAA's.

brassbonanza
12-27-2011, 10:45 AM
There is something to be said for the fact that when given the choice by Minnesota recently to go to the AHL now or play in the Q, he chose the lower level league.

Kenny
12-27-2011, 10:54 AM
[QUOTE=Hokydad;5304685] Hockey East is a bowling alley and way to much running around, high sticks etc.
QUOTE]

Sorry for trolling, but this is comical. Hockey East is the reason this kid didn't dominate? Maybe it's his youth and immaturity, maybe it was the BU systems, maybe he was never comfortable, but to pin the reason on the style of Hockey East play is absurd. The league has produced too many great, former and current, NHL'ers to make a comment like that. I understand your knowledge for the game far exceeds all of us minion's on this board, but HE style of play was not the reason this kid didn't excel.

Hokydad
12-27-2011, 10:55 AM
There is something to be said for the fact that when given the choice by Minnesota recently to go to the AHL now or play in the Q, he chose the lower level league.

Yes, his advisors were smart and along with advice from Torch and others, went exactly where a 19 year old should be, especially after playing at your local bowling alley for the past year+.

The climb up will be quick, deliberate and with success.

The only choice we should care about is the one when Minnesota would not make the trade with San Jose unless he was part of it, insisted on it.

BUTerrierfan
12-27-2011, 11:01 AM
Ok people, Coyle left, he is gone, an ex-Terrier. No more lamenting about coulda, shoulda, woulda. He and his family decided to leave early, for better or worse for him and his former BU teammates. Let's put this to bed with Mr. Coyle, wish him luck and get back to focusing on the remainder of the COLLEGE hockey season. Mr. Coyle, your ship has sailed with you on it. We wish you success in the Pros, Bye Charlie....Hello Note Dame and the 2nd half of the college season.

Hokydad
12-27-2011, 11:02 AM
[QUOTE=Hokydad;5304685] Hockey East is a bowling alley and way to much running around, high sticks etc.
QUOTE]

Sorry for trolling, but this is comical. Hockey East is the reason this kid didn't dominate? Maybe it's his youth and immaturity, maybe it was the BU systems, maybe he was never comfortable, but to pin the reason on the style of Hockey East play is absurd. The league has produced too many great, former and current, NHL'ers to make a comment like that. I understand your knowledge for the game far exceeds all of us minion's on this board, but HE style of play was not the reason this kid didn't excel.

That is not exactly what I am saying. Simply saying that some players are better suited for a pro style game, similar to WJC. Coyle is clearly one of them. Which uis why he did so well at WJC, is so highly rated as a pro and did well yesterday. It has produced many great players and the key thing the league provides is time, not all are ready to be a pro at 20.
Pro scouts say it all the time. You can get to pro hockey through D 1 just will take longer. If you think for one second that Kreider for example is a better player today vs if he had played the past 4 seasons and 350+ games with London or Kitchner you are wrong, big time wrong. Carlson, Moore and several others are playing now because MJ route. If went college route would ahve still gotten there but after an adjustment and 2-4 years later.

Not trying to argue the point with you but it is what it is. Hockey East serves a great purpose.. Perfect for a Ben Smith, Scuderi, Sneep type etc. Would not have been ready at 19/20 but very good at 22+

collegefan06
12-27-2011, 11:13 AM
Quality kid, rare talent. Will be a better pro than a college player. I meant league, not so much BU. Smart move as his goal is nhl not Beanpot.

Not the thread to start up on college game but it is a borderline bowling alley and has zero to do with pro style game. To much running around and hitting for all the wrong reasons. Hockey east is best league in country but MJ will get him ready for pros quicker, with his style. Thee is a reason why he looked so good at WJC and not as much when playing other college teams.

Will have along pro career and is a solid+ skater, considered very good for the style he will play


Well said Hokydad on your first comment. He is a rare talent and in my opinion he concluded that leaving BU was his best option for hockey.

HE is a very good league but he is getting average to poor coaching (Bavis replaced Quinn and a zamboni driver for the other assistant that is not respected by the players), a dificult envirnomnet...just look at the issues this team has dealt with and a system that does not play to his strengths.

He wanted to be at BU but got there and it wasn't what he'd hoped for and now he's gone. This kid is banking on a hockey future and if the BU program can't deliever on what it promised to develop him for the next step up he needed to do what is in his best interest.

We may not like it but when the coaches focus on kids looking for the quickest path to the NHL they will get this result more then most programs.

buoldtimer
12-27-2011, 11:26 AM
Yes, his advisors were smart and along with advice from Torch and others...



I went to the Wild website and reviewed their coaching and management staff. There is no one named Torch. Who is Torch?

Carmine Scarpaglia
12-27-2011, 11:34 AM
Are you just trying to instigate or do you actually believe that scoring a hat trick against Denmark in the WJC means that he would now all the sudden have started scoring goals in NCAA games? Clearly Charlie Coyle is a good player, but he was just average at BU and there is no reason to expect he would all the sudden be this great goal scorer. He also had a hat trick in his first game at BU against Toronto but has only 10 goals in real games since. For whatever reason, he is not excelling in the NCAA's.

I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying.

1. It is infinitely stupid to say BU won't miss a player like this, with this type of upside (especially at this size, which usually takes more time to develop), because he only scored a few goals.
2. There is no telling when said player will explode and many times it happens after the WJC. In case you didn't get the memo, you win the relevant championships after the WJC. In 2010, Chris Kreider went to the WJC with 2 goals for BC on the season. He came back and scored 13 more on the way to helping BC win a national title. In 2007, Nate Gerbe went out on a 2nd tour with the WJC team and had 8 goals. He bagged 17 more after returning from the WJC and helped BC get to the national title game. There are many other examples.
3. Knowing what we know from above, this is the time of the year your roster and the players on it should be getting better if you want to win championships. In BU's case, the roster undoubtedly got worse with the subtraction of Coyle. No one with a functional brain could argue otherwise. It's even magnified with the loss of Trivinomeansno and the fact they were both centers.

Citing past stats doesn't tell the whole story. And projecting future stats doesn't either. But the fact of the matter is that this kid is a very highly skilled player (the folks that do this for a living think so) and he was much more likely to go nuts in the 2nd half than Ross Gaudet or some other schmuck that is left on the roster. It's insane to argue that BU is not hurt by the loss of Coyle - which is exactly what some people are rationalizing right now. That's all I'm saying.

chickod
12-27-2011, 11:36 AM
We may not like it but when the coaches focus on kids looking for the quickest path to the NHL they will get this result more then most programs.

OK - so now we're finally getting to the crux of the matter. Is it not fair to say, though, that if you DON'T recruit "NHL Calibre" players you will not be competitive very long? The days of winning with 18 year-olds out of high school are over. Colleges are feeding grounds for NBA and NFL players, so why should hockey be any different? Perhaps we can blame the "underage draft" for this, but that's another subject. Just a question - not an accusation - but would the BU fans here "prefer" to have a team of young players who stay four years and graduate, or would they rather win? (and before the wise **ses get on and say, "Ha, BU's not winning anyway" - they're still better than most Hockey East teams year in and year out) Because you can't have it both ways anymore. We can question values and wisdom and extoll the virtues of getting a degree, knowing that MOST players will never make it to the NHL, but I'm guessing their attitude is "I can always go back and get a degree, but I may only have one shot at a pro career." It's easy for us to say they should stay in school, but that's because we don't have pro-level ability so we don't know what it's like to be in their skates. Just because it's the right choice for MOST students doesn't make it the right choice for them. I think the reason everyone is up in arms about all this is because it seems lately as though players are leaving school at an "alarming" rate. We didn't see this years ago, but then again, the number of players jumping from college to the NHL then was MUCH less. And it's NOT just at BU. Just take a look at the headlines on this website in the past two weeks. When you bring in "older" kids (kids that have played in prep school, national development programs and junior hockey), they're going to leave earlier because their priorities are different.

Friend_of_BU_Hockey
12-27-2011, 11:46 AM
I went to the Wild website and reviewed their coaching and management staff. There is no one named Torch. Who is Torch?

Torch = John Torchetti (head coach of Minnesota's AHL affilitate, Houston Aeros).

Hokydad
12-27-2011, 11:58 AM
Torch = John Torchetti (head coach of Minnesota's AHL affilitate, Houston Aeros).

and a Boston boy at that....

Hokydad
12-27-2011, 12:00 PM
I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying.

1. It is infinitely stupid to say BU won't miss a player like this, with this type of upside (especially at this size, which usually takes more time to develop), because he only scored a few goals.
2. There is no telling when said player will explode and many times it happens after the WJC. In case you didn't get the memo, you win the relevant championships after the WJC. In 2010, Chris Kreider went to the WJC with 2 goals for BC on the season. He came back and scored 13 more on the way to helping BC win a national title. In 2007, Nate Gerbe went out on a 2nd tour with the WJC team and had 8 goals. He bagged 17 more after returning from the WJC and helped BC get to the national title game. There are many other examples.
3. Knowing what we know from above, this is the time of the year your roster and the players on it should be getting better if you want to win championships. In BU's case, the roster undoubtedly got worse with the subtraction of Coyle. No one with a functional brain could argue otherwise. It's even magnified with the loss of Trivinomeansno and the fact they were both centers.

Citing past stats doesn't tell the whole story. And projecting future stats doesn't either. But the fact of the matter is that this kid is a very highly skilled player (the folks that do this for a living think so) and he was much more likely to go nuts in the 2nd half than Ross Gaudet or some other schmuck that is left on the roster. It's insane to argue that BU is not hurt by the loss of Coyle - which is exactly what some people are rationalizing right now. That's all I'm saying.

Say it without dissing a quality kid and player like Gaudet. He does exactly what is asked and if every kid on BU's roster played their role to a t and played at 100% of their ability like he does, BU would win eevry game. Not anymore as you cant replace that type of talent at center(plural)

steakbomb
12-27-2011, 02:16 PM
Guess maybe -

I'm being a bit generous there and thank you for the compliment. As an aside, most of these kids commit 1-2 years before being drafted. Meaning most don't know if 1-and done or 4 years or 4th liners when they commit.QUOTE=TonyTheTiger20;5304661]This made me lol.

As an aside, I've been meaning to tell you - "steakbomb" is an awesome username.[/QUOTE]

Rover
12-28-2011, 09:33 AM
Well said Hokydad on your first comment. He is a rare talent and in my opinion he concluded that leaving BU was his best option for hockey.

HE is a very good league but he is getting average to poor coaching (Bavis replaced Quinn and a zamboni driver for the other assistant that is not respected by the players), a dificult envirnomnet...just look at the issues this team has dealt with and a system that does not play to his strengths.

He wanted to be at BU but got there and it wasn't what he'd hoped for and now he's gone. This kid is banking on a hockey future and if the BU program can't deliever on what it promised to develop him for the next step up he needed to do what is in his best interest.

We may not like it but when the coaches focus on kids looking for the quickest path to the NHL they will get this result more then most programs.


Good points. I'll say this one more time for idiots who think Coyle was going to bust out 30 goals and 60 points anytime soon at BU...

1) If he was going to put up points here, he'd have done it by now. If you want to say BU's style of play is holding him back, hey you'll get no disagreement from me. Its entirely possible the kid's game doesn't fit in with Dump and Suck any better than countless other guys who've come through here (Ryan Whitney comes to mind as a guy who would have benefitted greatly playing on a more offensive minded team without a bunch of stiffs as forwards). However, BU's gameplan ain't gonna change, and for that reason I don't see BU getting any more out of him than they've been getting.

2) Only a total moron would compare BU player development to BC's. If BU developed guys like BC did, we wouldn't have one FF appearance in almost 15 years. It would be swell if BU players started kicking @ ss after the WJC's. Sadly, they don't. What Gerbe, Krieder, Kramer from Seinfeld, etc did while at BC is completely irrelevant.


3) So, BU won't miss the guy because clearly this wasn't the best place for him and he's not producing. Who's fault is that? Everybody already knows my opinion.

chickod
12-28-2011, 12:02 PM
If you want to say BU's style of play is holding him back, hey you'll get no disagreement from me. Who's fault is that? Everybody already knows my opinion.

:)

Jofa
12-28-2011, 03:03 PM
Good points. I'll say this one more time for idiots who think Coyle was going to bust out 30 goals and 60 points anytime soon at BU...

1) If he was going to put up points here, he'd have done it by now. If you want to say BU's style of play is holding him back, hey you'll get no disagreement from me. Its entirely possible the kid's game doesn't fit in with Dump and Suck any better than countless other guys who've come through here (Ryan Whitney comes to mind as a guy who would have benefitted greatly playing on a more offensive minded team without a bunch of stiffs as forwards). However, BU's gameplan ain't gonna change, and for that reason I don't see BU getting any more out of him than they've been getting.

2) Only a total moron would compare BU player development to BC's. If BU developed guys like BC did, we wouldn't have one FF appearance in almost 15 years. It would be swell if BU players started kicking @ ss after the WJC's. Sadly, they don't. What Gerbe, Krieder, Kramer from Seinfeld, etc did while at BC is completely irrelevant.


3) So, BU won't miss the guy because clearly this wasn't the best place for him and he's not producing. Who's fault is that? Everybody already knows my opinion.

All great points and btw how did Coyle do after last year's WJC not too well eh 65?

Banking on Coyles "upside" when he had at best 20-25 games left at BU isnt a very good long term plan. At worst they have less depth now, thats it.

steakbomb
12-28-2011, 03:34 PM
On a lighter note, recent developments indicate we will see more of Cisse and Rodrigues. A little more pressure on these to play increased minutes with more responsibility. Two of the players you're likely to have for four years. Hoping for good things from them

Terrance
12-28-2011, 03:42 PM
All great points and btw how did Coyle do after last year's WJC not too well eh 65?

Banking on Coyles "upside" when he had at best 20-25 games left at BU isnt a very good long term plan. At worst they have less depth now, thats it.

My thoughts exactly. I think people are going to be surprised by how good this team still is. Notre Dame is in for a tough game.