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cooperalls
11-22-2011, 08:40 AM
What is going to happen to St. Michael's and St. Anselm's at the end of this season. Is the East going to keep them in their league although there games don't count toward pwr rankings? Will the East stay at 8 teams or add more once they cordially dismiss St. Michael's and St. Anselm's in February.

CROSBYNU63
11-22-2011, 08:44 AM
Word is that they both have partitioned the NCAA to play down to D3 in hockey. I would suspect that even if they do not get approval the league will decide to keep them in.

NUProf
11-22-2011, 09:28 AM
Word is that they both have partitioned the NCAA to play down to D3 in hockey. I would suspect that even if they do not get approval the league will decide to keep them in.

As I recall, the ECAC East committed to giving them two years to get this done. I really hope something can be be done. St. Mikes is improving their program, and it would be a shame to see them pushed aside, and St. Anselm has been a member of the ECAC East for a long time - in fact, I don't remember a time when they weren't. Tradition is important in College sports despite the idiocy that is going on right now in DI.

hawk
11-22-2011, 10:41 AM
Word is that they both have partitioned the NCAA to play down to D3 in hockey. I would suspect that even if they do not get approval the league will decide to keep them in.

St. A's has a very good hockey program and excellent rink in Sulivan Arena. Great to hear they will continue in the ECAC E. Also location of the D2 schools in near most of the ECAC E teams

PrezdeJohnson09
11-22-2011, 11:29 AM
St. A's has a very good hockey program and excellent rink in Sulivan Arena. Great to hear they will continue in the ECAC E. Also location of the D2 schools in near most of the ECAC E teams

Don't jump the gun yet. Still hasn't been decided yet.

Personally, it's infuriating for me to have four games on Norwich's schedule that don't count for anything. (This year it's five with Dartmouth). On the women's side it's even worse...they have SIX games that don't count because you have to add in Division I Holy Cross too.

If they get reclassified down to D-III, great.

reggiedunlop
11-22-2011, 02:51 PM
Don't jump the gun yet. Still hasn't been decided yet.

Personally, it's infuriating for me to have four games on Norwich's schedule that don't count for anything. (This year it's five with Dartmouth). On the women's side it's even worse...they have SIX games that don't count because you have to add in Division I Holy Cross too.

If they get reclassified down to D-III, great.

The larger question is how will the ECAC adapt to the growth of SUNY and other NYS DIII programs.

hockeyfan77
11-22-2011, 07:18 PM
The Saints got one more year....I too agree with Crosby and think even if they don't get approval the league will still keep them.....

PrezdeJohnson09
11-22-2011, 08:32 PM
The Saints got one more year....I too agree with Crosby and think even if they don't get approval the league will still keep them.....

So what's the point of having the two-year grace period if the league is still planning on keeping them?

Doesn't make much sense to me?

hockeyfan77
11-22-2011, 08:38 PM
So what's the point of having the two-year grace period if the league is still planning on keeping them?

Doesn't make much sense to me?



To try and get their butts in gear....

PrezdeJohnson09
11-22-2011, 08:58 PM
To try and get their butts in gear....

Okay..so you tried to get their butts in gear...it doesn't work...so you just keep them anyway?

Still just doesn't make any sense to me impose a two-year grace period of get down to D-III or you're out of the league and then you still keep them as part of the league.

It's not like they don't have options. I'm sure some of the ECAC East schools would still schedule a game against both of them and they have the rest of the hockey playing NE-10 schools to fall back on.

NUProf
11-22-2011, 09:10 PM
Okay..so you tried to get their butts in gear...it doesn't work...so you just keep them anyway?

Still just doesn't make any sense to me impose a two-year grace period of get down to D-III or you're out of the league and then you still keep them as part of the league.

It's not like they don't have options. I'm sure some of the ECAC East schools would still schedule a game against both of them and they have the rest of the hockey playing NE-10 schools to fall back on.

Nothing is a done deal. The only thing that is certain is that if they can secure a waiver of some kind from the NCAA, they stay. I don't think there is a guarantee either way, but some people who know are suggesting that they may have the votes to stay. Pool C will shrink to two once the ECAC West finds one more team. It just seems like it maintaing traditional rivalries would be more important than the remote possibility of getting an occasional Pool C bid. Playing four games that don't count actually just makes the rest of the games more important. For years Elmira followed a strategy of scheduling games with the West because they didn't count, but provided good competition.

joecct
11-22-2011, 10:39 PM
I don't think the NCAA will allow D-II to have it both ways. Right now D-II's can play up at D-I or play D-II and play in the D-I tournament.

Nobody is allowed to play down and play for the lower championship.

jerrynu26
11-23-2011, 06:21 AM
Okay..so you tried to get their butts in gear...it doesn't work...so you just keep them anyway?

Still just doesn't make any sense to me impose a two-year grace period of get down to D-III or you're out of the league and then you still keep them as part of the league.

It's not like they don't have options. I'm sure some of the ECAC East schools would still schedule a game against both of them and they have the rest of the hockey playing NE-10 schools to fall back on.

I agree, they have had a two year period to get something done, but they have known this was coming for a lot longer than that. If they are no longer in the East, teams that want to can still get games, others can try for games that are out of conference. It's like having a four game exhibition every single year, and in a lot of years, not very good exhibition.

joecct
11-23-2011, 06:42 AM
Guys - the 6 NE-10 schools, as a conference would qualify for the D-I tournament and get an AQ.

AldenPartridge1819
11-23-2011, 07:11 AM
Guys - the 6 NE-10 schools, as a conference would qualify for the D-I tournament and get an AQ.

Why don't they already do this then? They have a conference champion each year anyway. It seems that it would be the smartest route to go. It would immediately boost recruiting. They could offer scholarships like they do in other sports. Even if they didn't offer scholarships, they could just play each other 4 or 5 times, and then fill up their schedule with whoever else will play them, D1 or D3. With that package to offer recruits, a team like St. A's would easily get much better in a short time. Plus, there would be a bunch of Atlantic Hockey schools that would schedule them. I mean, there's 6 NC games for AIC right off the bat. Perfect.

As a Norwich fan, the thing that bothers me about the games not counting is that, in fact, they do count for league playoff purposes. Teams in the ECAC-E have to fight for standings in the conference with other teams that disappear once the postseason hits. It's stupid. Say St. A's finishes 4th and Babson 5th. Nope, St. A's disappears and Babson gets home ice. UNE goes winless and finishes in 10th. Nope, two teams vanish and they make the playoffs. It is completely nuts. I don't understand how this situation has lasted this long, nevermind a couple of more years. If they don't get permission for the games to count, it's time for them to go.

joecct
11-23-2011, 09:11 AM
Why don't they already do this then? They have a conference champion each year anyway. It seems that it would be the smartest route to go. It would immediately boost recruiting. They could offer scholarships like they do in other sports. Even if they didn't offer scholarships, they could just play each other 4 or 5 times, and then fill up their schedule with whoever else will play them, D1 or D3. With that package to offer recruits, a team like St. A's would easily get much better in a short time. Plus, there would be a bunch of Atlantic Hockey schools that would schedule them. I mean, there's 6 NC games for AIC right off the bat. Perfect.

As a Norwich fan, the thing that bothers me about the games not counting is that, in fact, they do count for league playoff purposes. Teams in the ECAC-E have to fight for standings in the conference with other teams that disappear once the postseason hits. It's stupid. Say St. A's finishes 4th and Babson 5th. Nope, St. A's disappears and Babson gets home ice. UNE goes winless and finishes in 10th. Nope, two teams vanish and they make the playoffs. It is completely nuts. I don't understand how this situation has lasted this long, nevermind a couple of more years. If they don't get permission for the games to count, it's time for them to go.They could, but what would the ramifications be to Lowell, Merrimack, Bentley, and AIC?? Would they be forced to give up their existing conference affiliations? We can speculate all we want, but that's up to the conference presidents, not us posters. Though, at one time or another, I wonder if we could do a better job of it than the existing lot.

NUProf
11-23-2011, 11:25 AM
As a Norwich fan, the thing that bothers me about the games not counting is that, in fact, they do count for league playoff purposes. Teams in the ECAC-E have to fight for standings in the conference with other teams that disappear once the postseason hits. It's stupid. Say St. A's finishes 4th and Babson 5th. Nope, St. A's disappears and Babson gets home ice. UNE goes winless and finishes in 10th. Nope, two teams vanish and they make the playoffs. It is completely nuts. I don't understand how this situation has lasted this long, nevermind a couple of more years. If they don't get permission for the games to count, it's time for them to go.

The best solution - give the Pool A bid to the D3 team that finishes highest in the Standings. The playoffs could then be for the league championship and include everyone (Since those games would still count for Seeding, Pool Selection, and the official title, there would be lots of incentive for everybody to play well.). Back in the days of the 18 team ECAC East, 10 teams made the playoffs with play-in (my spell checker tried to change this to plain) games on Wednesday night with 10 at 7 and 9 at 8. The lower seeded winner would play at 1 on Saturday and the higher seeded winner would play at 2. Totally workable this way.

hawk
11-23-2011, 12:44 PM
The best solution - give the Pool A bid to the D3 team that finishes highest in the Standings. The playoffs could then be for the league championship and include everyone (Since those games would still count for Seeding, Pool Selection, and the official title, there would be lots of incentive for everybody to play well.). Back in the days of the 18 team ECAC East, 10 teams made the playoffs with play-in (my spell checker tried to change this to plain) games on Wednesday night with 10 at 7 and 9 at 8. The lower seeded winner would play at 1 on Saturday and the higher seeded winner would play at 2. Totally workable this way.

Like the SUNYAC it looks like the ECAC E has 2 very strong teams, Norwich and Castleton. Assuming both teams continue to play well then the league could use a Pool C bid to get one of the teams into the NCAA's. With so many key games on tap over the 6 weeks it will be interesting to see how the whole situation shakes out.

PrezdeJohnson09
11-23-2011, 01:02 PM
The best solution - give the Pool A bid to the D3 team that finishes highest in the Standings. The playoffs could then be for the league championship and include everyone (Since those games would still count for Seeding, Pool Selection, and the official title, there would be lots of incentive for everybody to play well.). Back in the days of the 18 team ECAC East, 10 teams made the playoffs with play-in (my spell checker tried to change this to plain) games on Wednesday night with 10 at 7 and 9 at 8. The lower seeded winner would play at 1 on Saturday and the higher seeded winner would play at 2. Totally workable this way.

This doesn't solve the problem of the eight D-III ECAC East teams playing four games against the two D-II schools though and none of those four games counting for NCAA purposes.

With Norwich only playing 20 games against D-III teams this year, every loss they have this year almost counts double for NCAA purposes because of the ramifications it can have on the Winning Percentage. Granted, if you win your league it doesn't matter...but still....

joecct
11-23-2011, 01:04 PM
The best solution - give the Pool A bid to the D3 team that finishes highest in the Standings. The playoffs could then be for the league championship and include everyone (Since those games would still count for Seeding, Pool Selection, and the official title, there would be lots of incentive for everybody to play well.). Back in the days of the 18 team ECAC East, 10 teams made the playoffs with play-in (my spell checker tried to change this to plain) games on Wednesday night with 10 at 7 and 9 at 8. The lower seeded winner would play at 1 on Saturday and the higher seeded winner would play at 2. Totally workable this way.And when was the last time Norwich did not finish in 1st place?? :D