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Ralph Baer
12-06-2011, 10:53 AM
Get over it. Times change and no one wanted to come to Troy for either Thanksgiving or New Year's anymore and who can blame them. The tournament didn't end for the sake of the UConn Classic. FWIW, SA has stated that he believes in tradition. We certainly have been havng trouble attracting teams. Perhaps it will be easier when the leagues reorganize in 2013-14 since some will be playing shorter league schedules.

Red Cloud
12-06-2011, 10:58 AM
FWIW, SA has stated that he believes in tradition. We certainly have been havng trouble attracting teams. Perhaps it will be easier when the leagues reorganize in 2013-14 since some will be playing shorter league schedules.

Believing in tradition doesn't mean being a slave to it. In addition to drawing weak teams, no one ever showed up for the games, especially the non RPI games. I enjoyed having our own tournament too but its time has passed.

Beman
12-06-2011, 11:05 AM
Get over it. Times change and no one wanted to come to Troy for either Thanksgiving or New Year's anymore and who can blame them. The tournament didn't end for the sake of the UConn Classic.

I know that attracting teams was the reason. But if RPI improved its program they would attract better teams. Not a hard concept to understand.
You ever been to Storrs?
Yeah tradition shouldn't be a factor. Maybe RPI should wear blue and green next year

Red Cloud
12-06-2011, 11:09 AM
I know that attracting teams was the reason. But if RPI improved its program they would attract better teams. Not a hard concept to understand.

And you back it up with amazing empirical evidence. Oh wait, no you don't. Why? Because it doesn't exist. The tournament was struggling to draw teams even when RPI was very good.


You ever been to Storrs?

Yeah, it's a dump. Has nothing to do with anything.


Yeah tradition shouldn't be a factor. Maybe RPI should wear blue and green next year

What a strawman, since I never said tradition shouldn't be a factor. It shouldn't be the only factor.

Matter of fact, now that I know you're so much in favor of it, I'm downright glad we got rid of it.

engineerhockeyfan
12-06-2011, 11:16 AM
I understand fully-I find it to be getting harder and harder to take anything positive out of these losses. Good teams find ways to win, even when they have not played well. We seem to be finding different ways to lose. I have in no way lost faith in this team-I still think we will see a lot of improvement as the season moves on-but we are far enough into this season that hoping to be a .500 team is a long shot.:(

Doc, we would have to go 15 and 5 the rest of the way to finish at/above .500.
I would settle for 10 and 10 if all ten wins were conference wins.
The only way to salvage this season is to play for the ECAC tournament win.
I still really like this team, and there will be no runaway winners in the ECAC. There rarely are.
The offense is starting to come around, and the defense has already shown how good it can be.
I am only interested in improvement for the next three games. After that, we have to go out and beat the conference teams if we are to make any kind of run at the NCAA tournament.
I haven't given up on that yet.

ibanezist00
12-06-2011, 11:22 AM
I had a long-winded response to type out here, but I think this sums it up better... improvement is the name of the game, and we're playing that game very well. Give it time. Guarantee you that in another season or two, we will be scary good again. That's all I have to say for now :)

Ralph Baer
12-06-2011, 11:30 AM
And you back it up with amazing empirical evidence. Oh wait, no you don't. Why? Because it doesn't exist. The tournament was struggling to draw teams even when RPI was very good.



Yeah, it's a dump. Has nothing to do with anything.



What a strawman, since I never said tradition shouldn't be a factor. It shouldn't be the only factor.

Matter of fact, now that I know you're so much in favor of it, I'm downright glad we got rid of it. No doubt we had trouble attracting good teams even when we were winning, and no doubt school not being in session kept the crowds down. Perhaps part of the trouble is that besides for some AHA teams we end up owing visits for more games than we get out of the tourney. E.g., Let's say we invite Big U and they do come. We probably would have a 50-50 chance of playing them because we always play the easiest team in the first round. However, they would play two games, and we would probably owe them that many.

johnk
12-06-2011, 11:43 AM
I know that attracting teams was the reason. But if RPI improved its program they would attract better teams. Not a hard concept to understand.
You ever been to Storrs?
Yeah tradition shouldn't be a factor. Maybe RPI should wear blue and green next year


The only way this tournament comes back with any popularity is if RPI is headed to Hockey East. Getting Union, Clarkson or an Ivy plus a western team would put a little luster back IMO.

Red Cloud
12-06-2011, 11:45 AM
The only way this tournament comes back with any popularity is if RPI is headed to Hockey East. Getting Union, Clarkson or an Ivy plus a western team would put a little luster back IMO.

That's actually not a bad idea if we're desperate to bring it back - could make it the annual ECAC reunion tournament or something.


No doubt we had trouble attracting good teams even when we were winning, and no doubt school not being in session kept the crowds down. Perhaps part of the trouble is that besides for some AHA teams we end up owing visits for more games than we get out of the tourney. E.g., Let's say we invite Big U and they do come. We probably would have a 50-50 chance of playing them because we always play the easiest team in the first round. However, they would play two games, and we would probably owe them that many.

That's about right, and another good argument for spiking the tournament.

Ralph Baer
12-06-2011, 11:53 AM
The only way this tournament comes back with any popularity is if RPI is headed to Hockey East. Getting Union, Clarkson or an Ivy plus a western team would put a little luster back IMO. As I said, we might owe Clarkson or Union two games if they play in our tourney without even necessarily playing them. Perhaps we could get away with a single return visit.

FlagDUDE08
12-06-2011, 12:00 PM
Wasn't the attendance for the tournament in the past few years the lowest in the season, relative to our other home games (including the games during break)? I know we all hate to bring money into conversations (just look at the third line of my signature), but if we're siphoning it off for the sake of tradition, then it's time to look forward. It's not like we're completely denying the players of the ability to play at the D-I level at certain times (at least this year, given that is when we played RIT). Who says on the Red Hot Hockey off years, we can't play BU then (although I wouldn't recommend it, as that is a very popular game, and is our most recent non-Freakout sellout back in 2006)?

johnk
12-06-2011, 12:03 PM
That's actually not a bad idea if we're desperate to bring it back - could make it the annual ECAC reunion tournament or something.

I think it wouldn't be desperation as much as restoring a good tradition that would actually be attractive to attend. If RPI was not playing any of these teams regularly then I think it would be attractive to both parties even with a low level western team. I would imagine a matchup of ECAC vs RPI and ECAC vs say a Minnesota State or Lake State would be better than what we have seen in the past especially if Union or Clarkson were involved. Need to take care of that little Hockey East thing before any of this would be relevant anyways.

FlagDUDE08
12-06-2011, 12:04 PM
As I said, we might owe Clarkson or Union two games if they play in our tourney without even necessarily playing them. Perhaps we could get away with a single return visit.

I was under the impression that tournament hosts reimburse the schools to play in the tournament. If this is true (and please tell me if it is not because I don't know), why would we owe them anything?

johnk
12-06-2011, 12:05 PM
As I said, we might owe Clarkson or Union two games if they play in our tourney without even necessarily playing them. Perhaps we could get away with a single return visit.

Teams I assume we would like to play every season so I don't see a problem there.

Beman
12-06-2011, 12:09 PM
Just saying that I loved going the tournament games. I am going to miss them. As far going back to the 60’s and researching attendance…well I will leave that to others.
I have no empirical evidence but I will bet that small college hockey attendance falls whenever the students are on vacation…duh
I just kinda liked it when players like Red B and Mel would come to Troy for a weekend.
I can’t believe that people are glad that the Tournament is gone.
First time I heard that. I guess when a team starts to struggle fans get apathetic
My interest has always been trying to bring in teams from the west, but going hockey east and then bringing in a traditional rival or two from ECAC would be great.

johnk
12-06-2011, 12:16 PM
Just saying that I loved going the tournament games. I am going to miss them. As far going back to the 60’s and researching attendance…well I will leave that to others.
I have no empirical evidence but I will bet that small college hockey attendance falls whenever the students are on vacation…duh
I just kinda liked it when players like Red B and Mel would come to Troy for a weekend.
I can’t believe that people are glad that the Tournament is gone.
First time I heard that. I guess when a team starts to struggle fans get apathetic
My interest has always been trying to bring in teams from the west, but going hockey east and then bringing in a traditional rival or two from ECAC would be great.

I enjoyed too when it was between Christmas And New Years. Thanksgiving weekend, not so much. Couldn't even muster 10 students and alumni for a band during the last few tournaments which does take away from the atmosphere. Probably looking at the same for the first ECAC weekend in January with no band which will be sad consdering the friday night game is on NBC sports.

FlagDUDE08
12-06-2011, 12:28 PM
Just saying that I loved going the tournament games. I am going to miss them. As far going back to the 60’s and researching attendance…well I will leave that to others.
I have no empirical evidence but I will bet that small college hockey attendance falls whenever the students are on vacation…duh
I just kinda liked it when players like Red B and Mel would come to Troy for a weekend.
I can’t believe that people are glad that the Tournament is gone.
First time I heard that. I guess when a team starts to struggle fans get apathetic
My interest has always been trying to bring in teams from the west, but going hockey east and then bringing in a traditional rival or two from ECAC would be great.

If you think anyone is glad about this turn of events, you're sorely mistaken. At the end of the day, the student union must collect revenue to support the hockey team. If the tournament was drawing your typical crowd of 3000-3500 to the games, there may be reason to keep it. If it isn't, perhaps it'd be best to just have another NC home game at another time when we can get butts in the seats.

Ralph Baer
12-06-2011, 12:28 PM
I enjoyed too when it was between Christmas And New Years. Thanksgiving weekend, not so much. Couldn't even muster 10 students and alumni for a band during the last few tournaments which does take away from the atmosphere. Probably looking at the same for the first ECAC weekend in January with no band which will be sad consdering the friday night game is on NBC sports. That would be sad if the band was not there for that game in January.

Red Cloud
12-06-2011, 12:32 PM
I guess when a team starts to struggle fans get apathetic

And then there's you, who gets apathetic when the team starts to succeed.

FlagDUDE08
12-06-2011, 12:33 PM
That would be sad if the band was not there for that game in January.

Strings had to be pulled just to get an alumni band for the Clarkson game last year. I know I'd be willing to play, but I'm fairly certain they won't.