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reggiedunlop
10-31-2011, 09:59 PM
I realize that it is early, any thoughts on coaches that may be on the hot seat if they do not improve/win this season?

CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
10-31-2011, 10:15 PM
Beaney
Gosek
Emery
Coughlin
McShane
Fogarty
:rolleyes:

Russell Jaslow
11-01-2011, 09:02 AM
I realize that it is early, any thoughts on coaches that may be on the hot seat if they do not improve/win this season?

This is D3 hockey. Coaches are never on the hot seat.

KnightsOfTheRound
11-01-2011, 11:27 AM
This is D3 hockey. Coaches are never on the hot seat.

Except Ed Gosek. Surprised that guy hasn't been fired yet.

reggiedunlop
11-01-2011, 03:10 PM
This is D3 hockey. Coaches are never on the hot seat.

Any employee anywhere has to perform to meet expectations, undergoes performance reviews. When your junior well respected hugely contributing captain quits and sends an accurate blistering email that circulates rapidly detailing the Coach's erratic and inappropriate behavior, that Coach will come under the microscope. When players are arrested or underperform in class, that Coach gets a visit from the AD. DIII or not, every Coach's seat can and will get hot.

NUProf
11-01-2011, 03:57 PM
Any employee anywhere has to perform to meet expectations, undergoes performance reviews. When your junior well respected hugely contributing captain quits and sends an accurate blistering email that circulates rapidly detailing the Coach's erratic and inappropriate behavior, that Coach will come under the microscope. When players are arrested or underperform in class, that Coach gets a visit from the AD. DIII or not, every Coach's seat can and will get hot.

But, not for just a W-L record for one season. Coaches who have a history of success with the W-L record or with the human development issues in coaching have to have made some egregious errors to put themselves in the hot seat.

OZFEST
11-01-2011, 04:05 PM
Any employee anywhere has to perform to meet expectations, undergoes performance reviews. When your junior well respected hugely contributing captain quits and sends an accurate blistering email that circulates rapidly detailing the Coach's erratic and inappropriate behavior, that Coach will come under the microscope. When players are arrested or underperform in class, that Coach gets a visit from the AD. DIII or not, every Coach's seat can and will get hot.

Let me guess: Jim Tressel at OSU. Oh wait he resigned....

KnightsOfTheRound
11-01-2011, 04:19 PM
Any employee anywhere has to perform to meet expectations, undergoes performance reviews. When your junior well respected hugely contributing captain quits and sends an accurate blistering email that circulates rapidly detailing the Coach's erratic and inappropriate behavior, that Coach will come under the microscope. When players are arrested or underperform in class, that Coach gets a visit from the AD. DIII or not, every Coach's seat can and will get hot.

I think the point that Mr. Jaslow was trying to make is that coaches in D3 programs don't get "on the hot seat" for not winning the way some D1 or pro coaches do. Not that being a D3 coach means you don't have to meet any standards or expectations for behavior.

Moville_finest
11-01-2011, 08:04 PM
I worked in D3 college athletics for nearly 7 years and coaches who do not win, "will be on a hot seat." Any good AD will have expectations and/or goals for coaches when they are first hired. Most AD's will give them 3 years to show improvement, but once a coach has had a full class of recruits go through and there is no
improvement or success, 90% of the time the coach will be fired or will be forced to resign so it doesn't look as bad.

Hockeyfan2113
11-02-2011, 12:59 AM
to think that no one is on a hot seat is a fool simply because it is a D3 sport. As Moville said, ADs want to justify expenses and if there is a coach that is not doing well then he is going to get fired. Harsh example but take a look at LVC, after the move to ECAC-W, the school saw no improvement and decided to save money by taking them down to club level. So it is not exactly like a coach can run a program into the ground or not have success and stay in position unless the school literally does not care about the program.

Also if a team's players run afoul of either normal academic or behavior problems consistently, the coach is going to have to answer for it.

norm1909
11-02-2011, 06:35 AM
to think that no one is on a hot seat is a fool simply because it is a D3 sport. As Moville said, ADs want to justify expenses and if there is a coach that is not doing well then he is going to get fired. Harsh example but take a look at LVC, after the move to ECAC-W, the school saw no improvement and decided to save money by taking them down to club level. So it is not exactly like a coach can run a program into the ground or not have success and stay in position unless the school literally does not care about the program.

Also if a team's players run afoul of either normal academic or behavior problems consistently, the coach is going to have to answer for it.

Steve Hoar was once on a hot seat. ;)

Russell Jaslow
11-02-2011, 08:32 AM
I think the point that Mr. Jaslow was trying to make is that coaches in D3 programs don't get "on the hot seat" for not winning the way some D1 or pro coaches do. Not that being a D3 coach means you don't have to meet any standards or expectations for behavior.

Exactly. D3 athletics isn't D1, and very rarely does a coach get on the hot seat solely because of his W-L record. Very rarely.

Sure, there are cases, and most of them are kept quiet, like Moville_finest alluded to. But, unless the sport is an extremely high profile sport for that school (and even then, it may not happen -- just look how long the Potsdam basketball coach who destroyed a once nationally acclaimed program lasted), the administration cares more about how the program is run and how the students of those teams do in school than they do with a W-L record.

How else can you explain the number of coaches just in hockey that have consistently losing records, but who's jobs are never in danger and have had their jobs for a very, very long time?

SB in the 'Seo
11-02-2011, 05:08 PM
Good points brought up by both sides. I lean towards Russel's side of the argument here. I would say only a handful of D3 programs (Mt. Union football, Cortland lacrosse, etc.) rival the pressure to produce in W's felt by even the bottom of a moneymaking D1 sport (football, basketball.)

That said, when I was reading this thread earlier I actually thought in some ways division 1 makes more sense. For example, I think everyone (even most Uconn fans) would agree Jim Calhoun is a world class D-bag. From his treatment of the media, his slew of NCAA infractions (although nothing quite big enough to get him canned yet), the graduation rate of his players, and just being an ego-maniac in general; the dude is just plain rotten. That said, his results on the hardwood are undeniable and hence he keeps his job.

From afar it would appear that sometimes since the pressure to win isn't as high the hiring/firing decisions become more political than results based in D3.

We've probably all been in jobs where we thought office politics played too big of a role in who succeeded (in my analogy Div 3) and we've probably all been in jobs that where unfairly rigid and just based on objective stats/metrics (in this case Win-loss record) that didn't tell the whole story (in my analogy Div 1.)

Maybe I am way off, but I like the idea that the results can speak for themselves.

joecct
11-02-2011, 05:16 PM
...How else can you explain the number of coaches just in hockey that have consistently losing records, but who's jobs are never in danger and have had their jobs for a very, very long time?Tenure?

NUProf
11-02-2011, 05:37 PM
Tenure?

Only at a few schools where coaching positions are part of the PE program. That practice has kind of disappeared. Even with tenure, they could probably reassign the coach to another position within the department. Early in my career when teaching at a school in Nebraska coaches were considered faculty members and could obtain tenure. They needed to get through six years of probation, but then they could get tenure. The basketball coach had tenure. The football coach was removed after 6 years on the job in which he went something like 20-40

Does this board look funny or am did my browser return to the 90s?

Russell Jaslow
11-03-2011, 08:58 AM
Only at a few schools where coaching positions are part of the PE program. That practice has kind of disappeared. Even with tenure, they could probably reassign the coach to another position within the department. Early in my career when teaching at a school in Nebraska coaches were considered faculty members and could obtain tenure.

Which is exactly the situation at Potsdam as well as some other SUNY schools. Coaches are classified as teachers/professors and in fact have to teach a class or two.

The Potsdam basketball coach did finally "leave" the coaching job, but he is still there as an Assistant AD.