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SCSU Euro
10-20-2011, 02:08 PM
So there were sprinkled throughout the offseason threads talks of where the new or conjoined league's would host their conference tournament, and I figured why not consolidate them into one thread? Curious to know people opinion's on both where they WANT a conference's tournament to be, and where they think it'll end up being. Also some formats need to be figured out.... the WCHA is still being sorted out but not like this would be the first time we've speculated before getting all the facts, the NCHC seems set at 8, so that looks like a pretty easy one (though 3rd place game or no?), the BTHC has 6 and my question is (which I'm sure it'll be answered in about 37 seconds) would they be able to have every round be best of three, with top two getting byes, 3 hosts 6, 4 hosts 5, winners are hosted by 1 and 2, finalists play best of three at a bigger neutral site? I don't even know if they'd WANT to, it'd mean 2 fan bases at the finals instead of 4, but then again they're all Big Ten fanbases, and the fans would all know they'd be guaranteed to see their team play the whole weekend instead of maybe just one game.

So BTHC, NCHC and WCHA all need to have a champion, where and how does it go down?

Alton
10-20-2011, 03:05 PM
my question is (which I'm sure it'll be answered in about 37 seconds) would they be able to have every round be best of three...

Sorry it's been more than 37 seconds.

The Big Ten has announced their tournament format.
FIRST WEEKEND: best-of-3, #6 at #3 and #5 at #4.
SECOND WEEKEND: 4 teams at 1 site (the #1 team hosts), #1 vs worse-seeded winner (#4/#5/#6), #2 vs better-seeded winner (#3/#4/#5), finals the next day.

They did not say whether they were having a consolation game; that may not have been decided yet. I'm guessing yes, just in case the host team loses on Friday.

FlagDUDE08
10-20-2011, 03:37 PM
Since western fans care so much about the regular season champion, why even have a conference tournament? The regular season champ gets the autobid. :p

SCSU Euro
10-20-2011, 03:43 PM
Sorry it's been more than 37 seconds.

The Big Ten has announced their tournament format.
FIRST WEEKEND: best-of-3, #6 at #3 and #5 at #4.
SECOND WEEKEND: 4 teams at 1 site (the #1 team hosts), #1 vs worse-seeded winner (#4/#5/#6), #2 vs better-seeded winner (#3/#4/#5), finals the next day.

They did not say whether they were having a consolation game; that may not have been decided yet. I'm guessing yes, just in case the host team loses on Friday.

You know, initially I didn't like this idea, but actually on second thought I don't hate it. Otherwise there's almost NO advantage to winning rather than finishing second and getting that bye, but now, boy is that a nice little cherry on top for winning the regular season.


Since western fans care so much about the regular season champion, why even have a conference tournament? The regular season champ gets the autobid. :p

Well you know how big the Big Ten Football Championship game is around these parts...

bunt_q
02-07-2012, 11:12 AM
I'm not a big fan of the the tourney format the BTHC is using. Three-game series to get into their final four. And then one-game elimination. That means a #3 team will play 4 or 5 games to win, whereas the #2 will only have to play 2 games. Makes for an awfully big difference between the 2 and 3 seeds. I'd prefer one-game play-ins if you're going to do first round byes.

...

Anyways, I am more curious about the NCHC. The format seems obvious - 3-game first round for everybody, them a 4-team championship. Consolation or not, eh, probably not. But *where* will the tourney be? Especially now that it sounds like the BTHC might have St. Paul locked down. (And the Gopher fans say the Target Center sucks for hockey. I've never been there, but I'll take their word for it.) The Twin Cities seemed like the only logical candidate for a fixed site tournament, so I suppose we're back to a rotating format?

If it's rotating, what sort of facilities are we looking for? I wonder if NHL facilities (Pepsi Center) will be too big for the NCHC? But campus rinks will be too small. We don't really have much in between in Colorado. The only venue I can think of that would work is the Denver Coliseum. It's an oldie but goodie, seats just over 8,000 for hockey (some high school state championships have been there). But is that big enough? 10-12k seems perfect, but what choices do we have other than some schools' home ice?

darker98
02-07-2012, 11:37 AM
Will the Minnesota rule exist in the B1G if it's in St. Paul?

goldy_331
02-07-2012, 11:48 AM
Will the Minnesota rule exist in the B1G if it's in St. Paul?

Not unless FSN televises it instead of BTN and insists on it again.

So, short answer, no.

goldy_331
02-07-2012, 11:52 AM
Since western fans care so much about the regular season champion, why even have a conference tournament? The regular season champ gets the autobid. :p

The same reason every conference gives the autobid to the playoff champ. It's a chance to get another team in the dance. It's assumed the reg season champ will make the tourney anyway due to PWR. Then there is additional revenue, always popular with the ADs.

Fighting Sioux 23
02-07-2012, 11:59 AM
Anyways, I am more curious about the NCHC. The format seems obvious - 3-game first round for everybody, them a 4-team championship. Consolation or not, eh, probably not. But *where* will the tourney be? Especially now that it sounds like the BTHC might have St. Paul locked down. (And the Gopher fans say the Target Center sucks for hockey. I've never been there, but I'll take their word for it.) The Twin Cities seemed like the only logical candidate for a fixed site tournament, so I suppose we're back to a rotating format?

If it's rotating, what sort of facilities are we looking for? I wonder if NHL facilities (Pepsi Center) will be too big for the NCHC? But campus rinks will be too small. We don't really have much in between in Colorado. The only venue I can think of that would work is the Denver Coliseum. It's an oldie but goodie, seats just over 8,000 for hockey (some high school state championships have been there). But is that big enough? 10-12k seems perfect, but what choices do we have other than some schools' home ice?

The Target Center is not a good place for hockey, but it may be the best of the rest if the X is unavailable. Another option would be to have the conference tournaments the week before the B1G. Obviously, that would require starting the first round a week earlier, and the schools would have an off week prior to starting the NCAA Tournament. That being said, some schools have made very good runs in the NCAA Tournament following a bye week (2004 Denver and 2009 Miami come to mind). Other than that, I agree that the Pepsi Center would be too large of a venue, and I think the NCHC would struggle to fill the bottom bowl. Omaha could work, as it is arguably the most central location in the conference.

IMO, it depends on what the conference wants to accomplish with its tournament (i.e. $$, fairness, etc.). If the goal is $$, then you shoot for the X or Target Center. If those are not viable options, then I think you have the tournament in Grand Forks. If fairness is the goal, then the X or Target Center are the top arenas, followed by Omaha and Pepsi Center, followed by hosting the tournament at the top seed remaining. Obviously, the X or Target Center are probably the top two locations, but it does not look likely that the X will be available every year (if ever). Perhaps the best route would be to get the Target Center, and then when the X does not host the B1G, try to get the X. It's a difficult situation to assess at this point in time because there are still so many unknowns, but the Minneapolis/St. Paul area has to be #1 on the list for where to host this tournament.

bunt_q
02-07-2012, 12:14 PM
The same reason every conference gives the autobid to the playoff champ. It's a chance to get another team in the dance. It's assumed the reg season champ will make the tourney anyway due to PWR. Then there is additional revenue, always popular with the ADs.

I assume he was mocking the old "CC rule."



The Target Center is not a good place for hockey, but it may be the best of the rest if the X is unavailable.

What is bad with the Target Center? I guess, how is it different from the Pepsi Center, which is also a basketball facility? I'm not a huge fan of the Can, and I'm sure a hockey-first facility would be better, but it's not a bad venue really for either hockey or basketball. Is the Target Center too basketball-centric?


I'd be concerned hosting the tourney in Grand Forks. Not because there's a worry it wouldn't succeed... no, because I'm not sure anybody else would ever be able to get tickets. Oh, and the home ice factor. Maybe a standing policy that when UND hosts, visiting team gets the Sioux locker room. :)

JDUBBS1280
02-07-2012, 12:16 PM
The very last place I want the Big Mistake tourney to be held is out of conference locales ie Chicago, let me put it this way, i'd rather it be held on campus at the Kohl over the United Center. Prefer ST. Paul and Detroit over everything, open to a conference rotation but absolutely despise the assinine idea of having it in Chicago.

As for the NCHC tourney, I hope its held in St Cloud every year, hell I might even become a fulltime Cloud fan if that were to happen.

mnstate0fhockey
02-07-2012, 12:17 PM
The Target Center is not a good place for hockey, but it may be the best of the rest if the X is unavailable. Another option would be to have the conference tournaments the week before the B1G. Obviously, that would require starting the first round a week earlier, and the schools would have an off week prior to starting the NCAA Tournament. That being said, some schools have made very good runs in the NCAA Tournament following a bye week (2004 Denver and 2009 Miami come to mind). Other than that, I agree that the Pepsi Center would be too large of a venue, and I think the NCHC would struggle to fill the bottom bowl. Omaha could work, as it is arguably the most central location in the conference.

IMO, it depends on what the conference wants to accomplish with its tournament (i.e. $$, fairness, etc.). If the goal is $$, then you shoot for the X or Target Center. If those are not viable options, then I think you have the tournament in Grand Forks. If fairness is the goal, then the X or Target Center are the top arenas, followed by Omaha and Pepsi Center, followed by hosting the tournament at the top seed remaining. Obviously, the X or Target Center are probably the top two locations, but it does not look likely that the X will be available every year (if ever). Perhaps the best route would be to get the Target Center, and then when the X does not host the B1G, try to get the X. It's a difficult situation to assess at this point in time because there are still so many unknowns, but the Minneapolis/St. Paul area has to be #1 on the list for where to host this tournament.

I agree, the Target Center is not a good place for hockey from my experience. Poor sight lines and poor ice. And I also wouldn't recommend going head-to-head with the BTHC tournament on the same weekend.

pgrass01
02-07-2012, 12:18 PM
Anyways, I am more curious about the NCHC. The format seems obvious - 3-game first round for everybody, them a 4-team championship. Consolation or not, eh, probably not.

I think it would be a smart move to have a 3rd place game, and guarantee that all 4 teams will play 2 games to get more fans to travel since a higher percentage of fans will be traveling than the current Final 5 format. You will also sell more tournament packages going that route.

Fighting Sioux 23
02-07-2012, 12:19 PM
What is bad with the Target Center? I guess, how is it different from the Pepsi Center, which is also a basketball facility? I'm not a huge fan of the Can, and I'm sure a hockey-first facility would be better, but it's not a bad venue really for either hockey or basketball. Is the Target Center too basketball-centric?

I have only been to the Target Center once for hockey, and I felt that the sight-lines were poor. I'm sure someone who has been there more often could elaborate and give other reasons why.

Fighting Sioux 23
02-07-2012, 12:23 PM
I agree, the Target Center is not a good place for hockey from my experience. Poor sight lines and poor ice. And I also wouldn't recommend going head-to-head with the BTHC tournament on the same weekend.

FWIW, i think the fanbases that would attend the BTHC and the NCHC tournament are somewhat mutually exclusive. Plus, even if attendance were to dip slightly, it would still be a better option than the others that are out there...unless the NCHC wants to have it at the Ralph. If that were the case, they could guarantee themselves 12,000 every year and a sold out crowd, and probably sell tickets for more $$ than if the tourney were at the X or the Target Center. Of course, I highly doubt the rest of the conference wants to give North Dakota that advantage every season.

bunt_q
02-07-2012, 12:27 PM
So I guess I'm back to the 8,200 seater Denver Coliseum. Small and definitely not glitzy, but a good old barn.

What do they have out in Ohio or (western) Michigan for venues, any idea? We can't forget them. After all, they're what makes 'The National' national.

JF_Gophers
02-07-2012, 12:32 PM
FWIW, i think the fanbases that would attend the BTHC and the NCHC tournament are somewhat mutually exclusive. Plus, even if attendance were to dip slightly, it would still be a better option than the others that are out there...unless the NCHC wants to have it at the Ralph. If that were the case, they could guarantee themselves 12,000 every year and a sold out crowd, and probably sell tickets for more $$ than if the tourney were at the X or the Target Center. Of course, I highly doubt the rest of the conference wants to give North Dakota that advantage every season.Don't invite UND to play in the tournament. Problem solved! :D

mnstate0fhockey
02-07-2012, 12:33 PM
FWIW, i think the fanbases that would attend the BTHC and the NCHC tournament are somewhat mutually exclusive. Plus, even if attendance were to dip slightly, it would still be a better option than the others that are out there...unless the NCHC wants to have it at the Ralph. If that were the case, they could guarantee themselves 12,000 every year and a sold out crowd, and probably sell tickets for more $$ than if the tourney were at the X or the Target Center. Of course, I highly doubt the rest of the conference wants to give North Dakota that advantage every season.

You'll be battling over the casual hockey fans, who will most likely pick the B1G games at the X in my opinion. You could be right though. It may still be the best option out there.

Fighting Sioux 23
02-07-2012, 12:33 PM
So I guess I'm back to the 8,200 seater Denver Coliseum. Small and definitely not glitzy, but a good old barn.

What do they have out in Ohio or (western) Michigan for venues, any idea? We can't forget them. After all, they're what makes 'The National' national.

Van Andel in Grand Rapids seats just under 11,000, and Grand Rapids isn't that difficult of a location to travel to. I would prefer to stay away from Cincy if at all possible, and I'm not sure what other options are available in Ohio that would be a good fit.

I don't think the Denver Coliseum would be a good fit. I honestly don't think they could even sell that out unless DU, CC, and UND all made the conference tournament. That being said, Denver is a good travel destination for those looking to make a mini-vacation out of the tournament.

Fighting Sioux 23
02-07-2012, 12:36 PM
You'll be battling over the casual hockey fans, who will most likely pick the B1G games at the X in my opinion.

Would the casual hockey fans have gone to the NCHC tournament regardless of the B1G tournament? Do the casual hockey fans go to the Final Five when the Gophers don't play? IMO, the answer to both of those questions in general is no. The reality is there are not that many casual hockey fans, and the casual hockey fans in the cities tend to only gain interest if the Gophers are playing.