Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

[MOJO]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

Not really going to debate you on this one Dave. You keep your opinion and I will mine. Obviously we see things through a different spectrum and I do believe more could have been done by AnASStos prior to and before jumping ship.

On a much more positive note, this weekend is what all NMU faithful relish about the current collegiate hockey setup (and not that of 2013-14). The ability to host and possibly slay the giant programs in our own barns, in front of witnesses of thousands, and celebrate doing so on as level a playing field as we will ever see again.

[nmupiccdiva]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

My venom has nothing to do with the WCCHA hokey pokey. I've always hated Anastos, him bailing in the early phases of the ring-around-the-rosie this summer didn't help his cause in my eyes. IMO, he never seemed to care much about the smaller CCHA schools as commish and that never sat well with me.
Am I happy about the WCHA move? Not as much as I would have been if the NaCHo hadn't formed, but yes, I am pleased about that end result. But, that doesn't change the fact that the middle syllable of Tommy A's last name is all too fitting, and between the NMU/State series and my appearance at the GLI this year I'm fully ready to let my venom flow.
One thing we all can agree on here: MSU sucks.

[wooderson]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

There were aspects to each game that would make me nervous facing a team like Northern. StL had as many shots on goal as UM did- so there's one thing. Both games against Bently were close right up until the end of the game. There's another. The defensive zone play is still very shaky. The first 10 seconds of a PK apparently has issues. Yes, we are scoring goals- a lot of them. And yes, we are playing the PK very well when the puck is NOT in our zone.

But there are plenty of concerns about this team, especially playing D. At this point, out 5th year, walk on goalie is being forced to make too many plays.

I want to get deep into CCHA play before declaring that this is a great UM team.

All valid points. I'm certainly not declaring this a great team either. But I think based on what we've seen so far they deserve a lot better then the "I just hope we can win another game" attitude.

[aparch]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

How was NMU leaving their position in the CCHA any different than Anastos? They saw the ship sinking and grabbed the lifeboat from the WCHA.

For the record, I'd just like to remind everyone of the timeline of what happened.
March 21st, B1G Announced cutting three teams from the CCHA:

CHA Commissioner Tom Anastos today issued the following statement in response to the announcement by the Big Ten Conference that men’s ice hockey will be recommended as an official conference sport beginning in the 2013-14 academic year.

NMU's Interim AD issued the following release on March 22nd:

NMU Associate Athletics Director of Operations and acting Athletic Director Steve Reed said the university is committed to the CCHA and following the lead of Anastos.

And then on March 23rd (and completely from Left Field):

The CCHA today announced that Tom Anastos, the league’s Commissioner since March of 1998, has tendered his resignation to accept the position of head hockey coach at Michigan State University.

Let's all recall that MSU didn't "throw Anastos a lifeboat," instead he approached MSU looking for a way out the weekend before the B1G announcement. Anastos was quitting either way, he wasn't going to sit and try to hold together the CCHA's remaining schools. He had no interest in trying to keep the "little" schools together. Once his bread and butter (MSU/UM) was gone, he was out behind them no matter what.

NMU then scrambled to decide what to do. And it took four months before NMU put together the work needed to pursue the move to the WCHA. Again, it took HOURS for Anastos to move beyond the CCHA. It took NMU four months.


That's where the vitriol comes in. As an outsider reading articles and checking date/time stamps, Anastos appears to have known EXACTLY what was going on, leaving the "small" schools to fend for themselves.

[davyd83]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

For the record, I'd just like to remind everyone of the timeline of what happened.
March 21st, B1G Announced cutting three teams from the CCHA:


NMU's Interim AD issued the following release on March 22nd:


And then on March 23rd (and completely from Left Field):



Let's all recall that MSU didn't "throw Anastos a lifeboat," instead he approached MSU looking for a way out the weekend before the B1G announcement. Anastos was quitting either way, he wasn't going to sit and try to hold together the CCHA's remaining schools. He had no interest in trying to keep the "little" schools together. Once his bread and butter (MSU/UM) was gone, he was out behind them no matter what.

NMU then scrambled to decide what to do. And it took four months before NMU put together the work needed to pursue the move to the WCHA. Again, it took HOURS for Anastos to move beyond the CCHA. It took NMU four months.


That's where the vitriol comes in. As an outsider reading articles and checking date/time stamps, Anastos appears to have known EXACTLY what was going on, leaving the "small" schools to fend for themselves.

MSU approached Anastos about the head coaching position. And that comes from both public record and private sources. And if he was looking, can you blame him? I have yet to see anyone who can say what more could have been done to save the league once the big fish all left for other ponds. There were talks with AHA schools about joining, but they declined for reasons including Alaska travel and other economic differences between them and the remaining schools. It never was a strong possibility that they would join the CCHA. Both groups kicked the tires. Neither liked what it saw all that much. You weren't going to convince Notre Dame or Miami to stay and Western was a longshot at best. The only way they were staying was if they got shot down by everyone else. So what exactly could have been done to keep GLIAC (Ferris, LSSU, NMU), Alaska (which was kicking the WCHA's tires) and Bowling Green together under the CCHA banner? One easy answer would have been those five plus Alabama-Huntsville, but Huntsville's new Chancellor and new AD have given hockey very little support. Based upon their comments, they actually know very little about it and care even less. The same thing happened with the WCHA. It was looking really solid with Bemidji, Mankato, St. Cloud, Tech, Anchorage and NMU. But once St Cloud got an invite to the NCHC, they were gone. That was the reason that the WCHA, when they realized St Cloud would get that invite, quickly extended the invite to the remaining CCHA schools. The WCHA was much the same. Once Minnesota and Wisconsin left for the Big Ten, you had some schools with bigger money, North Dakota, CC, Denver and recently boosted Omaha that didn't want to have their desires determined or negated by the lesser prestige and money schools like Tech, Mankato, Bemidji and UAA. There had been a stalemate in that league over the past several seasons. I really think that Notre Dame was a key player. I'm not sure that Duluth gets invited without a National Championship AND a new arena AND the uncertainty around Notre Dame.

In the big picture, I'm not sure what either Bruce McLeod or Tom Anastos could have done to keep their respective leagues intact. And in all reality, there was probably very little.

[aparch]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

In the big picture, I'm not sure what either Bruce McLeod or Tom Anastos could have done to keep their respective leagues intact. And in all reality, there was probably very little.

As someone viewing from the outside, the timing of all the actions still seems odd. And it doesn't help the reputation that he had of not liking the small schools. And if he knew he was going to take the position at MSU, it sure makes NMU look like they got caught with their pants down when their AD releases a statement saying they fully support what direction Anastos takes the CCHA.

Oh, and I was mistaken about who called who. CHN had a Q&A that cleared that up.
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/new...om_anastos.php

[davyd83]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

As someone viewing from the outside, the timing of all the actions still seems odd. And it doesn't help the reputation that he had of not liking the small schools. And if he knew he was going to take the position at MSU, it sure makes NMU look like they got caught with their pants down when their AD releases a statement saying they fully support what direction Anastos takes the CCHA.

Oh, and I was mistaken about who called who. CHN had a Q&A that cleared that up.
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/new...om_anastos.php

In many ways, all of us in the small school realm at times felt shafted. But let's face it, just like Major League Baseball, and their TV partners love the Yankees and Red Sox, like the NFL loves the Dallas Cowboys and the NBA loves the Lakers, the CCHA was making the most of its cash cows. If you had a CCHA final four at the Joe with NMU vs Miami and Michigan vs MSU, and either Miami or NMU was the top seed, it would have been a foolish business decision to put the MSU/UM matchup as the early game. The right hockey move, yes, but a smart business move, no. NMU didn't get caught with their pants down. The Anastos to State decision caught everyone by surprise. No one saw it coming, except Hollis and Anastos. Even the Lansing media was reporting Danton Cole would be named head coach the very morning it all happened. NMU had made that statement a couple days prior. There was no way they could have seen it coming at that point, especially since even Anastos hadn't expected it at that point. No culpability or shame for NMU there at all. And unltimately, and I've said this on many occasions, I think NMU may come out of this shift in a better position than it was in before it all happened. Michigan and MSU were the only ones who put extra fans in the stands out of the big schools we played. The MSU sales had dropped a bit over the past few years and with Comley retired, they were likely to fall even further, and bringing Dave Shyiak and UAA in probably negates any extra difference there as well. Michigan has been a strong sale, but replace that series every other year with an extra conference game on a non break weekend vs Tech, and that boost is negated as well. Now add to that the fact that in the Walt Kyle era at NMU, the Cats have 26 more wins than their next closest competitor (Bemidji), a team which played in the CHA and are 49 wins up on #3 UAF. And we all know that the more you win, the bigger the crowds.

[streaker]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

The likes of Berenson and the other Big Ten coaches will see there fair share of ilk from the remaining members of the CCHA/WCHA but cannot be faulted. The Berenson breed draws the ire of many alone, not to mention all of the "People of Walmart" fans who hitch along for ride. UofM was the obvious choice as public enemy #1 until MSU forced Comely out and replaced him with AnASStos!!!

Don't forget, spawn of Berenson aka, soB, (along with other ex-UMers) is now coach at MTU. You will never shake his shadow.

[nmupiccdiva]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

Don't forget, spawn of Berenson aka, soB, (along with other ex-UMers) is now coach at MTU. You will never shake his shadow.

Spawn of Berenson/soB. I love it. I absolutely love it. I live in a household where Pearson is revered above all others (meaning my fiance is the weirdo behind Tech Hockey Guide), so thank you thank you thank you for that comment.

[bluevox]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

The way the Wolverines have been playing??? I mean, I know it hasn't been the greatest competition, but they've outscored the opposition 24-5 at this point with a line-up full of freshmen. What do you want, 12 goals a game? The puck to never cross our blue line? The opponent to just surrender after the 2nd period? Actually that might've been a good idea for St. Lawrence...

Did you see the first ten minutes of the Saint Lawrence game? They were outplaying Michigan. The should have been up more than 1- 0. If the tiny savior hadn't kept all but one out of the net, I would bet the outcome would have been different.

I have a feeling they will skate out on Friday thinking that thwey are the #1 (or 2) team in the country and not be fully ready to play with a quality team. By the time they realize that Northern is better than the teams they have played so far this season, they will be down 2 goals and won't be able to turn it up enough to overcome it. By Saturday night, they should be ready to play, but Northern (and their fans) will be totally jacked up and it could go either way. That is why I would be happy with a split.

As for what I want from our team? I would like any 2 of the 3 scenarios you describe. Seriously, I have seen Michigan teams in the past put up 13 goals against CCHA opponents (UIC was in the CCHA, right? So was Kent. What about Ohio State?) I have seen all of the Michigan players register a point, including the backup goalie. I have seen Michigan score on the first shot of the game. I have seen Michigan score a 3 on 6 short-handed goal. I have seen an opposing coach pull his goaltender for half a period because he felt that it was not fair to his goalie to keep him out there against a Michigan team that was peppering him with shots.

In short, I have seen Michigan teams playing well and while I don't expect this team to be able to do those things, I do not think they are playing as well as they can and should be at this point.

[bluevox]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

All valid points. I'm certainly not declaring this a great team either. But I think based on what we've seen so far they deserve a lot better then the "I just hope we can win another game" attitude.

I did not say "I hope we can win another game." My sentiment was more along the lines of "This is the first time we are going on the road this season and we have a lot of freshman. I do not think they realize that the level of hockey they have been playing is not good enough to win against a quality team."

[wooderson]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

Did you see the first ten minutes of the Saint Lawrence game? They were outplaying Michigan. The should have been up more than 1- 0. If the tiny savior hadn't kept all but one out of the net, I would bet the outcome would have been different.

I have a feeling they will skate out on Friday thinking that thwey are the #1 (or 2) team in the country and not be fully ready to play with a quality team. By the time they realize that Northern is better than the teams they have played so far this season, they will be down 2 goals and won't be able to turn it up enough to overcome it. By Saturday night, they should be ready to play, but Northern (and their fans) will be totally jacked up and it could go either way. That is why I would be happy with a split.

As for what I want from our team? I would like any 2 of the 3 scenarios you describe. Seriously, I have seen Michigan teams in the past put up 13 goals against CCHA opponents (UIC was in the CCHA, right? So was Kent. What about Ohio State?) I have seen all of the Michigan players register a point, including the backup goalie. I have seen Michigan score on the first shot of the game. I have seen Michigan score a 3 on 6 short-handed goal. I have seen an opposing coach pull his goaltender for half a period because he felt that it was not fair to his goalie to keep him out there against a Michigan team that was peppering him with shots.

In short, I have seen Michigan teams playing well and while I don't expect this team to be able to do those things, I do not think they are playing as well as they can and should be at this point.

I understand where you're coming from, but if you really think Michigan "should be playing better" we're going to have to agree to disagree. It's not the mid-90's anymore, I will take my 7 goal wins over an actual ECAC team whenever I can get them. College hockey is too deep these days to expect utter dominance no matter who you are playing, it seems a little ridiculous to me to complain about a ten minute stretch of a game our team won 10-3.

Could we be exposed this weekend? Possibly...as you mentioned first game on the road, Northern looks pretty good, etc. But personally the first four games have made me more optimistic for the season. Hunwick is picking up where he left off in the tournament, the forwards are actually scoring goals, and the freshmen are only going to get better. Probably not the actual #1 team in the country, but I'm going to enjoy it while we are.

[bluevox]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

I understand where you're coming from, but if you really think Michigan "should be playing better" we're going to have to agree to disagree. It's not the mid-90's anymore, I will take my 7 goal wins over an actual ECAC team whenever I can get them. College hockey is too deep these days to expect utter dominance no matter who you are playing, it seems a little ridiculous to me to complain about a ten minute stretch of a game our team won 10-3.

Could we be exposed this weekend? Possibly...as you mentioned first game on the road, Northern looks pretty good, etc. But personally the first four games have made me more optimistic for the season. Hunwick is picking up where he left off in the tournament, the forwards are actually scoring goals, and the freshmen are only going to get better. Probably not the actual #1 team in the country, but I'm going to enjoy it while we are.

I think we agree more than we disagree. Do I think that scoring 7 or 8 goals a game is realistic? No.

Do I think that we should be able to contend for the CCHA title? Yes.

What I am seeing is a trend that I think started a couple of years ago. Sometimes the team is not as focused as they should be. Especially at the beginning of games. When it happens against a team like St. Lawrence, they can come back and post a 7 goal win. If something like that happens against a team that has a similar talent level as Michigan does, they might not be able to turn it on.

This team has a lot of talent. I am also impressed with how the freshman have looked. Sparks has made a big step forward in his third year and Pateryn has developed an offensive game over the summer. The team has a lot of potential, I just think there will be some stumbles along the way and it would not be surprising to me to see them come out a little flat this weekend.

Of course, I am wishing for a sweep of the 'Cats.

[alfablue]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

I think we agree more than we disagree. Do I think that scoring 7 or 8 goals a game is realistic? No.

Do I think that we should be able to contend for the CCHA title? Yes.

What I am seeing is a trend that I think started a couple of years ago. Sometimes the team is not as focused as they should be. Especially at the beginning of games. When it happens against a team like St. Lawrence, they can come back and post a 7 goal win. If something like that happens against a team that has a similar talent level as Michigan does, they might not be able to turn it on.

This team has a lot of talent. I am also impressed with how the freshman have looked. Sparks has made a big step forward in his third year and Pateryn has developed an offensive game over the summer. The team has a lot of potential, I just think there will be some stumbles along the way and it would not be surprising to me to see them come out a little flat this weekend.

Of course, I am wishing for a sweep of the 'Cats.

Well said. Interesting to see these kinds of posts in game weekend threads, but be it as they are.

Basically, I see a team that can beat anyone, anytime- they have shown enough potential that I think it can happen. It's a matter of them doing it, consistently.

[RaceBoarder]

Re: Michigan at NMU, 10/21-22--Walmart better stock up...

So I hear there is a game tonight

Unfortunately work will keep me from listening Hopefully we can see what the Cats have to offer and they can keep this promising start going...


GO CATS! GO CATS! GO CATS GO!!!