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Alton
03-18-2012, 12:19 AM
Over on MgoBlog Alton suggested the dark possibility that NoDak might get sent to Green Bay with Ferris and Denver remaining, a combination that hadn't even occurred to me. He is basing it on his experience with committee action, and his experience is impeccable. It does give me some pause. North Dakota and Western together will probably draw more fans to Green Bay than Michigan and Cornell will. For that reason alone I fear this is a realistic option, though still unlikely.

I think it's possible; I don't want to say whether it is more or less likely than the standard projection floating around. It's just something that isn't inconsistent with what has happened in the past. I wouldn't want to put any money right now on where they are going to end up.

POSSIBILITY #1 ("standard" projection)--
Worcester--1 Boston College v 16 Air Force, 7 Minnesota-Duluth v 10 Maine
Bridgeport--3 Union v 15 Michigan State, 5 Miami v 12 Massachusetts-Lowell
Green Bay--2 Michigan v 13 Cornell, 6 Ferris State v 11 Denver
St Paul--4 North Dakota v 14 Western Michigan, 8 Minnesota v 9 Boston University

POSSIBILITY #2 ("second round integrity" projection)--
Worcester--1 Boston College v 16 Air Force, 7 Minnesota-Duluth v 10 Maine
Bridgeport--3 Union v 15 Michigan State, 6 Ferris State v 12 Massachusetts-Lowell
Green Bay--4 North Dakota v 14 Western Michigan, 5 Miami v 11 Denver
St Paul--2 Michigan v 13 Cornell, 8 Minnesota v 9 Boston University

Pick your poison.

UMICH
03-18-2012, 04:30 AM
actually no, it is looking like green bay. With UMD losing, pretty much gave us the #2 overall seed in the tournament and trip to Green Bay.

Weren't we pretty much locked into the #2 seed as long as we won one game this weekend (which we did)? Granted, all of the screwing around that I did was to try to find a scenario where sparty would not have made it. It worked out perfectly except that Harvard lost their game. If Harvard would have won sparty would have gotten out the golf clubs. Truth be told, sparty "still" could be passed over. They are in a 3-way tie for 15th position in the PWR. Air Force gets an auto-bid so they are #16 automatically. Of the 3 teams at #15 (sparty, northern, and Merimack) sparty is the highest but Merimack wins the comparison with sparty. northern is also a CCHA team, so to nkeep bracket integrity #2 Michigan should play #15 Merimack.

And then there is also the rumbling I've been hearing about the sue/wastern switching with Michigan/whomever for attendence purposes in Green Bay. However, we already have seen that the NCAA is not too concerned about attendence in Regionals (St. Louis anyone, you could have shot a cannon through that rink)...

alfablue
03-18-2012, 12:14 PM
Interesting draw we got...

Green Bay, with Denver, Ferris, and Cornell. hm.

When I saw the east draw, it seemed as if the CCHA didn't get as many as we thought. But the whole interconfrence pairing is happening East and Midwest... (BC- Maine, and UM-Ferris). I thought that was going to stop.

Anyway- #2 overall. Can we get out? Can, sure. We've shown a team that can beat anyone, I think. The real question is if that team shows up enough to get out of the regional.

klbaum1077
03-18-2012, 02:35 PM
Good Luck this weekend from an Ohio State Fan!

alfablue
03-19-2012, 08:43 AM
I may be mis-reading the schedules, but it appears that Michigan is the ONLY top seed who plays a late game in round one.

Union has a 3pm game, the other one is at 6, North Dakota has a 12:30 game, the other is at 4, and BC has the 4pm game, the other at 7:30

Whereas we have the 8:30 pm game, the other at 4:30.

What gives with that?

Wol4ine
03-19-2012, 09:13 AM
I think it's the only 1v4 matchup that has higher name recognition than its 2v3 counter. It's the only 1v4 where both schools are former National Champs. So rather than have Denver v Ferris St. on during prime time they chose Michigan v Cornell. In fact, consider all the friday games;
Union v MSU
Miami v UM-Lowell
Ferris St. v Denver
Michigan v Cornell
MSU is the only other big state school that anyone outside the college hockey footprint is familiar with.

alfablue
03-19-2012, 10:51 AM
I think it's the only 1v4 matchup that has higher name recognition than its 2v3 counter. It's the only 1v4 where both schools are former National Champs. So rather than have Denver v Ferris St. on during prime time they chose Michigan v Cornell. In fact, consider all the friday games;
Union v MSU
Miami v UM-Lowell
Ferris St. v Denver
Michigan v Cornell
MSU is the only other big state school that anyone outside the college hockey footprint is familiar with.

Name recognition is relative. As has been posted in the TV thread- the highest number of viewers for the NBC games has been for Denver and North Dakota. So by TV recogition, they shoud have the later games. Especially Denver, since a 8:30 EST start is an early 6:30 pm for their fans.

Putting so that "big names" get good times ingores NBC's data on their coverage. Not that ESPN is all that smart.

Caustic Undertow
03-19-2012, 03:14 PM
Counter-argument: Could it be that each regional looks at different factors? North Dakota is the early game in St. Paul, but that is easy to explain when you consider that Minnesota is the late game and they would naturally be placed later for ticketing purposes. Not sure how that applies to Worcester, of course.

alnike
03-19-2012, 03:45 PM
In the 2011 Midwest Regional in St. Louis, UM-UNO played in the early game, while the #1 BC played CC at night.

Wol4ine
03-19-2012, 06:54 PM
Name recognition is relative. As has been posted in the TV thread- the highest number of viewers for the NBC games has been for Denver and North Dakota. So by TV recogition, they shoud have the later games. Especially Denver, since a 8:30 EST start is an early 6:30 pm for their fans.

Putting so that "big names" get good times ingores NBC's data on their coverage. Not that ESPN is all that smart.I don't remember NBC covering UM or MSU. I also don't remember them covering FSU or Union.

edit: This from the MBC web site;

NBC Sports Network’s College Hockey Schedule (all times ET, subject to change):

DATE/GAME/TIME

Saturday, Dec. 31 #12 Boston University at #4 Notre Dame 7:00 p.m. (VERSUS)
Jan. 6 Dartmouth at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 7:30 p.m.
Jan. 13 #14 Minnesota-Duluth at Nebraska-Omaha 7:30 p.m.
Jan. 20 #3 Michigan at #4 Notre Dame 7:30 p.m.
Jan. 27 #9 Yale at Harvard 7:30 p.m.
Feb. 3 Cornell at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 7:30 p.m.
Feb. 10 #1 Boston College at Vermont 7:30 p.m.
Feb. 10 #5 Minnesota at #8 Denver 10:00 p.m.
Feb. 17 Dartmouth at #9 Yale 7:30 p.m.
Feb. 24 #12 Boston University at Vermont 7:30 p.m.
Feb. 24 #15 North Dakota at #8 Denver 10:00 p.m.
March 2 #8 Denver at Nebraska-Omaha 7:30 p.m.
So they did carry the ND v UM game. But I guess the fact that they aired a Cornell game confirms my belief. Of the 4 games available Friday, only 3 of the 8 teams involved were on NBC (UM, Cornell, & Denver x3) So if you want a primetime game, UM v Cornell or DU v FSU?

Fighting Sioux 23
03-19-2012, 06:57 PM
I may be mis-reading the schedules, but it appears that Michigan is the ONLY top seed who plays a late game in round one.

Union has a 3pm game, the other one is at 6, North Dakota has a 12:30 game, the other is at 4, and BC has the 4pm game, the other at 7:30

Whereas we have the 8:30 pm game, the other at 4:30.

What gives with that?

Typically, the head coach of the #1 seed picks what game they want (early or late). Most coaches pick the early game because you don't have to worry about OT of the first game, your kids thinking ahead to playing whoever won the first game, and it gives your kids the longest time to recover should they win the first round game. Red picked the late game...I'm sure he has his reasons.

Alton
03-19-2012, 07:01 PM
Typically, the head coach of the #1 seed picks what game they want (early or late). Most coaches pick the early game because you don't have to worry about OT of the first game, your kids thinking ahead to playing whoever won the first game, and it gives your kids the longest time to recover should they win the first round game. Red picked the late game...I'm sure he has his reasons.

That's simply not the case. Game times are determined by the NCAA Men's Division I Ice Hockey Committee, and I can assure you that they are determined after consultation with ESPN. From the NCAA Tournament Manual: "Times and sequences of games are tentative and are subject to change by the NCAA."

The early game is only available live online (ESPN3), and the late game is on ESPNU. The 1-4 game is a much better matchup for television, and so the 1-4 game is the late game. If Red Berenson had any say about it, the Michigan-Cornell game would be the early game.

Fighting Sioux 23
03-19-2012, 07:03 PM
That's simply not the case. Game times are determined by the NCAA Men's Division I Ice Hockey Committee, and I can assure you that they are determined after consultation with ESPN.

Interesting, as that is the exact opposite of what I was told by a coach that has received a #1 seed on multiple occasions.

Alton
03-19-2012, 07:06 PM
Interesting, as that is the exact opposite of what I was told by a coach that has received a #1 seed on multiple occasions.

Perhaps it used to be the case; it certainly is no longer is the case, or else Michigan-Cornell would be the early game. It is not, so somebody other than Red Berenson is selecting the game times. Anyway, it is right there in the Pre-Championship Manual (formerly the "Tournament Manual") that the NCAA determines the game times.

Fighting Sioux 23
03-19-2012, 07:09 PM
Perhaps it used to be the case; it certainly is no longer is the case, or else Michigan-Cornell would be the early game. It is not, so somebody other than Red Berenson is selecting the game times. Anyway, it is right there in the Pre-Championship Manual (formerly the "Tournament Manual") that the NCAA determines the game times.

Perhaps it has changed since my conversation (~mid 2009). That being said, I don't read the Tournament Manual (at least from the quote you used) as saying the NCAA picks who plays the early game or the late game, just that they select the time of the games and the dates (sequence) of the games.

Alton
03-19-2012, 07:14 PM
That's not what "sequence" means...

I guess this whole discussion will have to end up being labeled [citation needed].

Caustic Undertow
03-19-2012, 07:20 PM
I might be mistaken, but didn't Red get quoted this week as saying that , all things being equal, the night game makes little difference and it's more like a "regular" game day? Of course, Michigan subsequently went to double-overtime against Bowling Green and was totally out of gas the next evening.

Fighting Sioux 23
03-19-2012, 07:23 PM
That's not what "sequence" means...

I guess this whole discussion will have to end up being labeled [citation needed].

No point in really getting too technical with it, other than curiosity as to how the games are chosen for particular time slots.

That being said, sequence just refers to order. How you want to interpret sequence is apparently different than how I want to interpret it, but that does not mean that my interpretation of sequence is wrong.

Ultimately, I just wanted to provide this thread with information that I had, not argue semantics. Apparently my information (perhaps outdated) was not well received. :p:D:D

Alton
03-19-2012, 07:30 PM
Ultimately, I just wanted to provide this thread with information that I had, not argue semantics. Apparently my information (perhaps outdated) was not well received. :p:D:D

It was not well received only because it was so obviously wrong.

http://xkcd.com/386/

:D

Fighting Sioux 23
03-19-2012, 07:36 PM
It was not well received only because it was so obviously wrong.

http://xkcd.com/386/

:D

I'll have to ask the coach again the next time I see him to see if that has changed. The quote you provided from the Tournament Manual is vague at best in relation to this question.

So...

Michigan played well this weekend, but obviously suffered from the long game Friday night. I thought the Green Bay Regional was kind to the Wolverines. Cornell is a solid team, but Michigan should have enough depth to get by the Big Red. Denver, if healthy, poses a big obstacle for Michigan in the Regional Final (also assuming they get by Ferris) while the Bulldogs of FSU struggled against Bowling Green (so did Michigan at times). I think Michigan gets out of the Regional, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Regional Final is one heck of a game.

Also of note, I will be attending the Frozen Four this year, and Michigan has made it every single time that I have attended (1997, 2001, 2008, 2011). That alone should be good enough for the Wolverines to punch their ticket to Tampa. :p:D:D