Imagining League Realignment

[buoldtimer]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

As far as the Ivy League is concerned, the reappearance of Penn and Cornell would really help the league.

Does Mike Shaffer know that Cornell has disappeared?

[Alton]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

I thought someone mentioned elsewhere that only 50% of the tournament may be autobids...so if there are more than 8 conferences, the tournament would have to be more than 16...

Well...yes and no.

No more than 50 percent of a tournament may be autobids, that is true. But it does not mean automatic expansion if the number of conferences eligible for autobids is greater than 50 percent of the tournament field. If, by some bizarre turn of events, we actually get to 9 conferences, there will be a "play-in" game for the 8th autobid.

What will happen if we have 9 conferences is this--the hockey committee will rank the conferences before the season (by RPI, most likely), and the top 7 conferences will get autobids, and the champion of the 9th best conference will have to play the champion of the 8th best conference in a game hosted by the champion of the 8th best conference. That "play-in" game will take place before the selection of the tournament, and the loser of the game would be eligible for one of the at-large bids. On selection day, the 7 conference champions plus the winner of the play-in will join 8 at large teams in the tournament, seeded (presumably) by PWR as always.

I think the only NCAA Division I tournaments with play-ins right now are Women's Lacrosse and Field Hockey.

[CornwallAce]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

Shirtless,

if we are imagining, lets add Navy to the AHA

Also, for anyone who has tons of free time, I have a load of outside work to keep you busy for a long long time!

[bigmrg74]

With the rise of the NCHA, is there any thought that their will more new teams out west at big schools? UBC and their location in a rich Canadian hot bed of talent would be a tempting target as soon as they decide to cross the border. Colorado State supposedly has a big group there pushing for hockey, and most of the DU and CC posters seem to be of the opinion that if CSU adds hockey, Colorado wouldn't be that far behind them. And heck, any large school west of the Mississippi river would likely be welcomed with open arms by them I would think.

[Eph72]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

With the rise of the NCHA, is there any thought that their will more new teams out west at big schools? UBC and their location in a rich Canadian hot bed of talent would be a tempting target as soon as they decide to cross the border. Colorado State supposedly has a big group there pushing for hockey, and most of the DU and CC posters seem to be of the opinion that if CSU adds hockey, Colorado wouldn't be that far behind them. And heck, any large school west of the Mississippi river would likely be welcomed with open arms by them I would think.

Yes, totally agreed. As long as we are imagining, the Canadian universities in Alberta and BC should be targets for eventual WCHA expansion and the Colorado schools are now naturals for the NCHA. I'd also like to put the Pac 12 schools on the table. It would only take 6 of them...and more and more kids from California are finding their way into D1 programs...

[Eph72]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

Shirtless,

if we are imagining, lets add Navy to the AHA

Another potential expansion school for the AHA is the University of Rhode Island...

[Eph72]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

Going back to one of my original premises, that this is all ultimately driven by TV money, check out the Big 10 Network: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Ten_Network#Ice_hockey.

Now tell me how the old CCHA or WCHA was going to compete with the Big 10 hockey conference and the BTN? Not a chance.

[Split-N]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

...I think its possible HE will dump all of Merrimack, UML, Providence and Northeastern. Who to add? Notre Dame is the obvious one ...UConn is another intriguing possibility. ...the reappearance of Penn and Columbia would really help...

A point-by-point response, if I may:

1) Personally, I don't think HE is going to dump anybody--least of all Northeastern. Though it may lack championship banners, Northeastern is a pretty big school (approx 20,000 students) and has a a lot of resources. It also sells tickets (more than BC did for the HE tournament last Spring), travels well, and has alums all over the country. Providence is an established and highly respected institution in New England. It has had a few down years in hockey but it will be back. Merrimack and UML seem to compete just fine, thank you. If one or both decide to go to the ECAC, it will be their choice. They won't be pushed.
2) ND seems to need HE more than HE needs ND. The way I read things, if ND wanted to become lodge brothers with the NCHC crowd, it would have been among the charter members. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
3) Upgrading of the UConn hockey program ain't gonna happen so long as the UConn basketball program remains under current management. Period.
4) Columbia is a pipe dream. NYC media market or not, Columbia hasn't given a rat's tail about athletics since the 1940s and shows no sign of doing so in the foreseeable future, the squash program notwithstanding.
5) It would be nice to get Penn back but there have been many chances for this to happen over the years but all for naught. It could be argued that the emergent Penn State program might prompt Penn to rethink but I really don't think Penn cares much about what Penn State does. A pity. Penn had evolved into an ECAC power before having the rug jerked out from under it in one of the more lamentable chapters in eastern college hockey history.

[Rhett]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

Every summer we have seen some guy with way too much time on his hands come up with a "realignment" scenario and no one nailed what is happening now.

You lost me at "Big East."

That's when my eye's glazed over too. I skipped to the alignment after that and... ugh. Brutal.

Eph, your first 3 responses (and a bunch of others) are negatives and all from fans of the conference most likely to come out of this nonsense without getting shredded. I imagine that the responses from others who read this nonsensical drivel, after sifting through several disappointing rumor threads and a bunch of threads where the quality of their school is eviscerated by former leaguemates, aren't going to find these suggestions very "fun".

Just nuke this thread, reality is "fun" enough.

[Patman]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

That's why I think its possible HE will dump all of Merrimack, UML, Providence and Northeastern.

Yeah, that would be quite impossible. Your comment on UConn is likewise ignorant.

Split-N... it doesn't have much to do with basketball as much as it is institutional focus. Their peers, in their opinion, is not other new england schools but rather other national schools. It'd take one of their peers wading in to the pool before they get interested.

[jjmc85]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

A good question will be whether Hockey East can resist the temptation to beef up and go for a TV contract. The Big 10 and the new National league will certainly be going there.

Resist the temptation? Doesn't someone have a signature which shows that the NCAA Championship a few years ago got worse ratings that reruns of the World Series of Poker? Who is tempting Hockey East to beef up their TV contract? I think they have a pretty good deal with NESN, getting at least one game a week on TV.

The Big 10 has their own network, so yeah, they'll be on national TV.

The NCHC? I'll concede the point that to a college hockey fan, those are big time programs. What about to the rest of the nation? They're honestly a bunch of no names, and I say that meaning no disrespect whatsoever. I'm just trying to call it like I see it. Before I started following college hockey, I would have guessed that North Dakota had a school, since I assume every state has at least one, and maybe heard of Miami due to their other sports, but none of them are name brand BCS schools. And let's not forget, college hockey doesn't get as good ratings as reruns of the World Series of Poker (assuming I'm remembering the signature correctly). I'm willing to bet a majority of the country won't watch a bunch of no name schools play each other in a niche sport. I hope I'm wrong, cause if I am I think that's good for College Hockey, but I don't think I am.

Given all this, I think Hockey East is in a good situation with respect to TV. I don't know enough about the details of the Big 10 Network and Hockey East's agreement with NESN, but I'd guess at worst the conference has the second best deal in the nation and will continue to for the foreseeable future.

Long Story Short: I don't think BC/BU/UNH/Maine/anyone will decide to go all North Dakota on the rest of the league.

[Eph72]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

Your comment on UConn is likewise ignorant.... It'd take one of their peers wading in to the pool before they get interested.

Ignorant is one thing I'm not...well suited to the banter and repartee of internet bulletin boards, well that's another thing.

As I've said all along, the breakup of HE is very unlikely...just like the breakup of the WCHA and the CCHA was. And yes hockey is a niche sport that may not do as well as bass fishing, poker or rodeo on national tv. But if turns out the Big 10 deal leads to meaningful tv revenue, and a meaningful recruiting advantage, there will be pressure on everyone else to keep up.


Back to simply imagining, a peer school with tv appeal which has never shown much public interest in hockey is Syracuse. (Please don't tell me that you know they will never start a program. We know how expensive a D-1 program would be. We know what Penn State is spending.) Just saying a super conference with BC, ND, Uconn, and Syracuse in it (as unlikely and impossible as it might be) might begin to interest the tv people.

[Eph72]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

...I think they have a pretty good deal with NESN, getting at least one game a week on TV.

...The Big 10 has their own network, so yeah, they'll be on national TV.

...The NCHC? ... I'm willing to bet a majority of the country won't watch a bunch of no name schools play each other in a niche sport. I hope I'm wrong, cause if I am I think that's good for College Hockey, but I don't think I am.

The NESN deal is fine for what it is for now (although I have no idea what the economics are). The question is whether the Big10 and NCHC schools over the next 5-7 years can milk enough out of tv deals to lead to a meaningful recruiting and competitive advantage.

I agree with you that the NCHC is not composed of big name schools from a national tv point of view. The tv contract that they will be seeking will be some kind of enhanced local/regional Fox Sports kind of deal. But if they can work a deal and get games on tv regularly in the greater Denver, Omaha, Cincinnati/Dayton, and Duluth and Minneapolis areas, and maybe on secondary sports channels like ESPNU or CBS College Sports, and if they are able to create some brand recognition, and generate some revenue and recruiting advantages, which lead to competitive success, this will have an impact on the rest of the college hockey landscape.

[Split-N]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

...Back to simply imagining, a peer school with tv appeal which has never shown much public interest in hockey is Syracuse.

I'll concede that the times may well be a-changin, especially with respect to TV but Syracuse has repeatedly (going back to the '60s) spurned blank checks from well-heeled alums, supposedly because well-entrenched basketball interests didn't want any in-season revenue-producing competition. I'm not a 'cuse guy so I'm not going to presume to know what would happen right now if a big check got dangled by a TV network. Even then, I just don't see BC bolting.

[Patman]

Re: Imagining League Realignment

Back to simply imagining, a peer school with tv appeal which has never shown much public interest in hockey is Syracuse. (Please don't tell me that you know they will never start a program. We know how expensive a D-1 program would be. We know what Penn State is spending.) Just saying a super conference with BC, ND, Uconn, and Syracuse in it (as unlikely and impossible as it might be) might begin to interest the tv people.

Fine then, I'll just point out that they haven't and they haven't stated any real intention of doing so and probably need a new facility to be competitive at the likely desired level.

I could point out at least a half dozen issues with UConn... I should know... I lived there for 5 years... do I know what has happened in the last 2... not really, but i'm still in touch with those who have a good idea. The least of the troubles... the desire for a basketball practice facility, desire to upgrade the soccer facility, the inability to upgrade the hockey rink, its abutment to the soccer field itself, its increase in stature of the baseball program and the direction of funds to that program, the semi-latent desire of alumni for lacrosse.... should I continue?