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  • #46
    Originally posted by bronconick View Post
    http://www.miningjournal.net/page/co...id/564714.html
    Really? Is it just me or does this seem to imply that some of the teams that won't even be around in 2013-14 are considering voting down something that will never effect them, so the WCHA is trying to get around letting them vote?
    Yep. When I first learned of it, that was exactly my thought. The NCHC schools can stick it to the WCHA on their way out the door. Legally, there are still 12 WCHA member schools who must continue to vote for changes to the league even if they already have one foot out the door.

    A legal quirk to the by-laws.

    *edit* it may not even be the NCHC's trying to purposely screw the WCHA. If seven of twelve schools abstain from voting, is a unanimous vote from the five remaining schools enough to pass the resolution? 5/12 is not 9/12.
    Last edited by aparch; 07-19-2011, 09:28 AM.
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    • #47
      Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

      Originally posted by huskyfan View Post
      welcome back pussycats! you and your sandbagging coach and diseased women!!

      ****! its good to have you back! let the games begin!
      .........and it's all UND's fault.
      "The man who smiles when something has gone wrong just thought of someone to blame it on." Robert Bloch
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      • #48
        Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

        Originally posted by aparch View Post
        Yep. When I first learned of it, that was exactly my thought. The NCHC schools can stick it to the WCHA on their way out the door. Legally, there are still 12 WCHA member schools who must continue to vote for changes to the league even if they already have one foot out the door.

        A legal quirk to the by-laws.

        *edit* it may not even be the NCHC's trying to purposely screw the WCHA. If seven of twelve schools abstain from voting, is a unanimous vote from the five remaining schools enough to pass the resolution? 5/12 is not 9/12.
        The only explanation that I can think of is that money from the WCHA playoffs is at issue, specifically how the final years income will be paid out.

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        • #49
          Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

          Originally posted by NMUFAN21 View Post
          Sorry to burst your bubble but Tech won't rule anything, there is a reason why NMU dosn't want to play you. It drags our pairwise down win or loose
          I hate to break it to you but thats completely false. NMU doesn't want to play MTU in NC games because the games are pretty much always a coin toss and if they lose, it kills their RPI. If NMU wins, it doesn't drag down their pairwise...not since the 25/21/54 RPI and "no game may decrease your RPI with a win"
          Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

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          • #50
            Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

            Originally posted by aparch View Post
            Yep. When I first learned of it, that was exactly my thought. The NCHC schools can stick it to the WCHA on their way out the door. Legally, there are still 12 WCHA member schools who must continue to vote for changes to the league even if they already have one foot out the door.

            A legal quirk to the by-laws.

            *edit* it may not even be the NCHC's trying to purposely screw the WCHA. If seven of twelve schools abstain from voting, is a unanimous vote from the five remaining schools enough to pass the resolution? 5/12 is not 9/12.
            I would assume that not voting (abstaining) is the same as saying no in this instance.
            Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

            Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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            • #51
              Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

              Originally posted by aparch View Post
              Yep. When I first learned of it, that was exactly my thought. The NCHC schools can stick it to the WCHA on their way out the door. Legally, there are still 12 WCHA member schools who must continue to vote for changes to the league even if they already have one foot out the door.

              A legal quirk to the by-laws.

              *edit* it may not even be the NCHC's trying to purposely screw the WCHA. If seven of twelve schools abstain from voting, is a unanimous vote from the five remaining schools enough to pass the resolution? 5/12 is not 9/12.
              No, this is not true at all. In fact, I know the BSU FAR quite well, and he told me last Friday that he could have gotten the UMinn or UWisc FAR's on the phone at a moments notice and they would have been glad to vote in NMU. Rather, this is about changing the league by-laws to make operating the conference easier for the next two years while setting up the 6 (or 8) team league. In other words, every time the WCHA wants to make a change to the by-laws (move the Final Five or change its format, add a new team, change the rule about 4000 seats in the rink to admit a member, etc) they don't have to call the Gophers, Badgers, Omaha, UND, Duluth or CC and Denver. Why bother those guys/gals about changes that they don't care about? They couldn't change the rules in the short amount of time they had by Friday's meeting - but will by tomorrow, as I understand.
              Current NCAA D-I rinks I've been to:

              AHA:
              B1G: UMich, MSU, UMinn, Notre Dame, OSU, UWisc
              CCHA: BSU, BG, FSU, LSSU, MSU, MTU, NMU
              ECAC:
              HEA: UMass
              NCHC: Miami, UMD, UND, SCSU, WMU
              Independant: ASU


              Inactive: UAH, ASU, BSU, UMD, UND, NMU, Notre Dame

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              • #52
                Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

                Originally posted by moose97 View Post
                No, this is not true at all. In fact, I know the BSU FAR quite well, and he told me last Friday that he could have gotten the UMinn or UWisc FAR's on the phone at a moments notice and they would have been glad to vote in NMU. Rather, this is about changing the league by-laws to make operating the conference easier for the next two years while setting up the 6 (or 8) team league. In other words, every time the WCHA wants to make a change to the by-laws (move the Final Five or change its format, add a new team, change the rule about 4000 seats in the rink to admit a member, etc) they don't have to call the Gophers, Badgers, Omaha, UND, Duluth or CC and Denver. Why bother those guys/gals about changes that they don't care about? They couldn't change the rules in the short amount of time they had by Friday's meeting - but will by tomorrow, as I understand.
                That makes much more sense. Thanks Moose!
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                • #53
                  Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

                  Originally posted by aparch View Post
                  Yep. When I first learned of it, that was exactly my thought. The NCHC schools can stick it to the WCHA on their way out the door. Legally, there are still 12 WCHA member schools who must continue to vote for changes to the league even if they already have one foot out the door.

                  A legal quirk to the by-laws.
                  However based in the principle that no active member should have their ability to vote on an issue raised during their tenure of active membership should be denied, even if it would not take effect during a time when they would be an active member.

                  *edit* it may not even be the NCHC's trying to purposely screw the WCHA. If seven of twelve schools abstain from voting, is a unanimous vote from the five remaining schools enough to pass the resolution? 5/12 is not 9/12.
                  Under normal rules of parliamentary procedure, those abstaining (or voting "present"*) are not counted as votes in regards to deciding a majority. In an assembly of 100 people present, and the vote is tallied at 1 yes, 0 no, 99 present, then the motion would carry 1-0 (as well as carrying as unanimous). In this case, assuming standard Robert's Rules apply, the vote would be 5-0 in favor, and the motion would carry, since 4 yeas (i.e. a 3/4 majority of the membership present and voting) were recorded.

                  However, any organization has the ability to set its own by-laws, and since the WCHA already requires a 3/4 majority in its by-laws, it's not safe to assume they operate under the standard Roberts' Rules. The WCHA could very well have said "It requires a 3/4 majority of the active membership", in which case it must be 9 yeas before the motion would carry, no matter what any member votes (for all we know, it may actually state in the by-laws that on matters of membership, abstentions are not permitted). Such conditions are not exactly desired in Robert's Rules, as it effectively turns abstentions into nay votes, and keeps voters from maintaining a neutral position, but there's nothing stopping anyone from enacting those rules.

                  That being said, of course, there'd be nothing (to my knowledge) that would prevent the 2013-14 WCHA from taking this vote at a time when its active membership is 5, and carrying forth a gentleman's agreement with Northern Michigan during the intervening period that the vote would be a formality. But I'm sure that's cold comfort to NMU, having to wait two years for an actual formal acceptance. And, of course, if the by-laws are changed, then this is all moot.

                  *Abstentions are typically recorded as a vote of "present" so that the votes are counted towards quorum.
                  UConn -- Clarkson

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                  • #54
                    Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

                    Originally posted by kingdobbs View Post
                    for all we know, it may actually state in the by-laws that on matters of membership, abstentions are not permitted
                    Well, we do know that when BSU and UNO were admitted that the votes were 9 in favor and one abstention...
                    Current NCAA D-I rinks I've been to:

                    AHA:
                    B1G: UMich, MSU, UMinn, Notre Dame, OSU, UWisc
                    CCHA: BSU, BG, FSU, LSSU, MSU, MTU, NMU
                    ECAC:
                    HEA: UMass
                    NCHC: Miami, UMD, UND, SCSU, WMU
                    Independant: ASU


                    Inactive: UAH, ASU, BSU, UMD, UND, NMU, Notre Dame

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

                      Originally posted by moose97 View Post
                      Well, we do know that when BSU and UNO were admitted that the votes were 9 in favor and one abstention...
                      Any knowledge or rumors on who the abstention was?
                      Go Gophers!

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                      • #56
                        Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

                        Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                        Any knowledge or rumors on who the abstention was?
                        That depends, did the vote occur during the football season?
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                        • #57
                          Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

                          Originally posted by moose97 View Post
                          No, this is not true at all. In fact, I know the BSU FAR quite well, and he told me last Friday that he could have gotten the UMinn or UWisc FAR's on the phone at a moments notice and they would have been glad to vote in NMU. Rather, this is about changing the league by-laws to make operating the conference easier for the next two years while setting up the 6 (or 8) team league. In other words, every time the WCHA wants to make a change to the by-laws (move the Final Five or change its format, add a new team, change the rule about 4000 seats in the rink to admit a member, etc) they don't have to call the Gophers, Badgers, Omaha, UND, Duluth or CC and Denver. Why bother those guys/gals about changes that they don't care about? They couldn't change the rules in the short amount of time they had by Friday's meeting - but will by tomorrow, as I understand.
                          I'm with you Moose. Given the relationship that NMU has had with other WCHA schools, I think that UMD, Minnesota, Wisconsin and UMD would fall under the "gimme" department as far as a vote goes. I believe that the remaining five just wanted to set precedent for any voting that would come up not affecting the current members who are departing for other leagues.
                          "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
                            I'm with you Moose. Given the relationship that NMU has had with other WCHA schools, I think that UMD, Minnesota, Wisconsin and UMD would fall under the "gimme" department as far as a vote goes. I believe that the remaining five just wanted to set precedent for any voting that would come up not affecting the current members who are departing for other leagues.
                            Makes sense to me. Having a stable WCHA left when the great schism happens is going to be important to both the big ten and the NCHA. Keeping everybody happy til the Great schism happens is clearly going to be important to everybody, and if things get hammered out that things could be arranged so that there's only a small amount of bad blood left over from this with some sort of an interlock deal with the NCHA, the WCHA, and Minnesota and Wisconsin, then so much the better then.
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                            • #59
                              Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

                              Oh goody. Now I get to have flashbacks of Matt Siddall's Punch-Out all over again.
                              Michigan Tech Huskies Pep Band: There's No Use Trying To Talk. No Human Sound Can Stand Up To This. Loud Enough To Knock You Down.

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                              • #60
                                Re: Welcome Back to the WCHA Northern Michigan

                                Originally posted by bigmrg74 View Post
                                Makes sense to me. Having a stable WCHA left when the great schism happens is going to be important to both the big ten and the NCHA. Keeping everybody happy til the Great schism happens is clearly going to be important to everybody, and if things get hammered out that things could be arranged so that there's only a small amount of bad blood left over from this with some sort of an interlock deal with the NCHA, the WCHA, and Minnesota and Wisconsin, then so much the better then.
                                I personally hope my program never finds a need to play (at home or away) DU, UND, UMD or CC again. That's with the big "E" in nEver. As for UNO. Who cares? Never played them before they came into the WCHA.

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