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Hockey Monk
06-23-2011, 10:42 PM
Iím not sure if in my lifetime USA will push Canada for the amount of NHL players but I think itís a matter of where the top athletes in the country gravitate to. In the USA hockey is at least becoming an option in most places where it wasn't before:

http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/2011/06/17/raw-numbers-usa-hockey-surpasses-500000-registered-players-in-2010-11/#more-1393

Current NHL Rosters Skaters-54.2% Canada vs. 24.1% USA

Current NHL Rosters Goalies-46% Canada vs 20.7% USA

joecct
06-24-2011, 11:54 AM
500,000 x $30 = $15,000,000 base dues. Wonder what they do with all that money (and more)? Go here (http://www.usahockey.com//Template_Usahockey.aspx?NAV=AU_02&ID=253984) and find out.

dggoddard
06-28-2011, 03:59 PM
500,000 x $30 = $15,000,000 base dues. Wonder what they do with all that money (and more)? Go here (http://www.usahockey.com//Template_Usahockey.aspx?NAV=AU_02&ID=253984) and find out.What we have to keep in mind is that the numbers of school age boys playing hockey is down significantly [50%???] since the peak in the Eighties. Increased numbers of girls, increased senior participation and players from nontraditional markets is keeping the US numbers roughly the same [500,000].

Don't forget the US population in 1980 was 225,000,000 and today its over 300,000,000 so participation numbers should be up 33%, all things being equal. Hockey has also failed miserably to make inroads in minority participation which is the fastest growing segment of the population.

Hockey is far more fragmented today in overall participation due to more sports competition including nontraditional sports [skateboarding, exterme sports, X-games] and lower physical fitness levels of teenagers in general.

Of course the number of Americans in the NHL, first round picks and elite program participation is at an all-time high due to better coaching, year round hockey and the drop off in Eastern European participation & funding. All these factors mask the decline of USA hockey.

Another factor is declining population and birthrates in some of hockey's traditionally core regions on the midwest and northeast.

Net result; hockey participation is not growing. Its contracting at an alarming rate.

Hockey Monk
06-28-2011, 10:09 PM
What we have to keep in mind is that the numbers of school age boys playing hockey is down significantly [50%???] since the peak in the Eighties. Increased numbers of girls, increased senior participation and players from nontraditional markets is keeping the US numbers roughly the same [500,000].

Don't forget the US population in 1980 was 225,000,000 and today its over 300,000,000 so participation numbers should be up 33%, all things being equal. Hockey has also failed miserably to make inroads in minority participation which is the fastest growing segment of the population.

Hockey is far more fragmented today in overall participation due to more sports competition including nontraditional sports [skateboarding, exterme sports, X-games] and lower physical fitness levels of teenagers in general.

Of course the number of Americans in the NHL, first round picks and elite program participation is at an all-time high due to better coaching, year round hockey and the drop off in Eastern European participation & funding. All these factors mask the decline of USA hockey.

Another factor is declining population and birthrates in some of hockey's traditionally core regions on the midwest and northeast.

Net result; hockey participation is not growing. Its contracting at an alarming rate.

I understand your point but I somewhat disagree. The 500,000 number that was passed was never hit before by US Hockey. In traditional markets like Mass., Michigan, Minnesota hockey peaked and may have peaked awhile back.

But other markets have made up for it with tremendous growth which is allowing more people to have an opportunity to play the game where it wasn't available before. I live in Phoenix, Arizona and when I first moved here we had 1 rink, we now just built ice sheet number 10 due to the heavy volume of kids who want to play hockey and btw it was 115 degrees here today. Northern Indiana will add 6 new sheets of ice just this year. During the NHL Draft they said Pittsburg had 6 sheets of ice before Mario L. got to town now they have 30+.

Similar stories are taking place in California, Tennessee, Texas, Florida, and the Carolina's also Texas has a high school hockey league and Arizona is talking about adding one as well. This was not happening 20 years ago.

On the other side I do agree with some of your points about US Hockey and Canada has been struggling to keep numbers up in hockey as well and has had a two year decline. One article said that Canada Hockey could see the numbers go from 500k+ to somewhere in the 300k area in the next 15 to 20 years. Imigrants, cost, and more options to play other sports such as soccer (which has more registered players than hockey in Canada) are the reasons.

dggoddard
06-29-2011, 07:50 AM
Good points.

An interesting statistic about Canadian hockey. Only 83 of the 209 players drafted last weekend were Canadian [40%] - Almost certainly an all-time record low. Although major junior players and Swedes dominated the first round.

Canadian birthrates are down [immigration drives the population growth], some of the same factors plaguing US participation also affect Canada kids and Canadians are moving from rural areas to the cities.

Long and the short of it is that both the US and Canada are producing elite players, the numbers are down.

FlagDUDE08
06-29-2011, 02:52 PM
Only 61 of the 209 were American. So after doing some forbidden actions on the forums (or by waving my magic wand if you prefer), 65 of the players were European (given part of Russia is in Europe, though who knows the location of those particular Russians, I'm not going to look it up). We also have to consider that the rest of the world is also developing some high quality talent out there.

Hockey Monk
06-29-2011, 05:30 PM
Only 61 of the 209 were American. So after doing some forbidden actions on the forums (or by waving my magic wand if you prefer), 65 of the players were European (given part of Russia is in Europe, though who knows the location of those particular Russians, I'm not going to look it up). We also have to consider that the rest of the world is also developing some high quality talent out there.

No doubt about it with European players but ESPN had an interesting article about how Russia and to a lesser extent Canada is trending downward for NHL players and American Hockey is filling in the gap. The KHL is obviously taking most of the the Russian players (and the KHL is looking to expand into Finland and other parts of Europe) and America is slowly increasing vs. Canada.

I have provided two graphs below that shows in the NHL breakdown over several years. You will see the decrease in Canadian and Russia palyers and an increase in players from the USA. In fact, the USA has grown by 10% over for skaters in the last decade. Canada is still king though in the NHL:

Players (24.1% total USA vs 54.2% Canada):
http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_PlayerNationalities.php

Goalies (20.7% USA vs 46% Canada):
http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_GoalieNationalities.php

Also, next year one mock draft shows 14 of the first 36 (or 39%) are Americans:

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2012