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aparch
07-25-2011, 03:13 PM
So you'd be OK in a conference with Robert Morris and felt that NMU made a mistake in bolting to what remains of the WCHA??While I can't speak for DavyD: Yes, I would have wanted Bobby Mo to join. Not knowing that Miami, ND, and WMU wanted out, I wanted ND and Miami to be the flagships with Bobby Mo, Mercyhurst, and Niagara in the new CCHA.

And even though my 'Cats are now in the WCHA, and the CCHA looks like slim pickings, I STILL want to see the AHA teams come over. They wanted to be competitive, but handicapped themselves in an effort to just save themselves when the CHA folded.

Lakerblue
07-25-2011, 04:15 PM
I wondered how long it was going to take until a few of the sympathetic voices started sharpening their barbs. I don't like the comment, but that doesn't mean there isn't a grain of truth.

The Big Ten Arrogance Society fancied themselves TV stars and, honestly, fancied themselves special. So off they ran. I have pointed out before, and shall point out again, that the Big Ten's nuking of the western half of college hockey's universe has been given a large free pass by the press. This was a blindly arrogant money grab. I was not shocked -- because after all what is the Big Ten, in anything, except a blind arrogant money grab. But this particular money grab destabilzed the West.

For some reason, UND, Denver et al.'s blind arrogant money grab was treated more harshly (although much of that harsh critique came, hilariously enough, from common Big Ten supporters).

Now there is a break down between survivors. In the WCHA, there are programs that are well funded and well supported. (The benefits to LSSU of joining the WCHA I, and many others, have hammered without mercy for weeks),

In the CCHA, there are programs that are on life support. Ferris and BGSU. Western, despite its declaration of hockey excellence, plays in a fancy high-school rink with limited facilities, and with football and basketball far more important and far more popular. Now the CCHA, desperate to survive, wants to add programs from four private schools with very small facilities, limited fan base and limited fan interest. And although the desire of the AHA westen teams to move to the CCHA for increased scholarships points to programs willing to try growing, they have a long way to go yet. Does LSSU belong with this group of small quasi-D-II programs? Or does LSSU belong with a more serious and stable D-I conference?

Based upon facilities, heritage, and institutional support LSSU is a great fit for the reconstituted WCHA -- taking geography out of the equation maybe a better fit than Northern. And this makes LSSU fans want to be a part of that conference. And that looks, to those snipping and snapping, like LSSU is turning up its nose at the constituted CCHA.

Yes, we are. I don't want to sugar coat anything. I would prefer to take the stance of UND and Denver et al and say, "It is about money, power, and exposure." Be honest. Don't be like the Big Ten yahoos who actually said with straight faces, "This is about conference identity." I hope the AHA schools do great. I hope Ferris and BSU and UAH and the AHA schools band together and form a lovely conference and have lots of fans and lot of money and get lots of good players. But I don't want any part of where that league is heading.

aparch
07-25-2011, 04:37 PM
Wow... bitter much? Suddenly the vitriol turned from "why isn't our administration doing something" to "why isn't the rest of college hockey looking out for us?"

While the fans may feel (rightly) that LSSU belongs in the WCHA; financially*, the CCHA may make the most sense.


* By financially, I mean how much is allocated and spent by the University on coaches, staff, recruiting, scouting, etc.

Lakerblue
07-25-2011, 05:24 PM
I assume you aren't taking my post as bitter? I am going to be open and honest, in the interest of full disclosure -- the schools and fans and media prostitutes who faun over the Big Ten can drop dead in their own filth and I would hardly raise a finger to help. Ok, I'd raise one particular finger.

I will, however, refuse to take the bait vis-a-vis NMU. Their administration hit the ground running, LSSU's did not.

And I don't think anyone on this page, this LSSU page, is sitting around saying, "Why didn't college hockey do anything for us." If any poster or reader took that meaning from the hundreds of posts herein showing the fan-base-populace begging and screaming for our own adminstration to act . .. well . .. I would question your reading comprehension and conclude either A) your education ended with a GED from Bay De Noc; B) You couldn't get into Bay De Noc so you "found yourself" in a weird haze of burnt cheese curds, marijuana, and Steven Stills solo albums, or C) You're just bored and seeking to stir up manure until mom calls you upstairs for dinner (I know, that last one was lame).

In fact, there doesn't appear to one single poster, or post, on this thread, which shows LSSU saying anything about being unfairly left behind. Yes, the Big Ten blew up college hockey-- thats not a whimpering cry for mercy, thats just the truth. And no, I did not expect LSSU to get scooped up with North Dakota's new conference. And no, I did not expect the WCHA schools to run, hat in hand, to the Soo begging for LSSU's mighty program to save their conference.

In fact, we all here have been saying exactly the opposite -- the LSSU leadership needs to move quickly and sell LSSU to the WCHA, which in its 2013 incarnation looks like the stronger league.


There is no self pitty in the Laker ranks. We are all quite concerned with our program, and we are all seeking ways each of us can address the issue, or at least discuss the issue.

But, yes, the Big Ten and its bastard cruddy CCHA can both die. I'm just keeping it real.

Bill
07-25-2011, 05:26 PM
I think Davy just likes to play devil's advocate a lot. That can come across as being overly negative if you do it enough. I don't think any ill will was intended. Just my 2 cents.

3dognight
07-25-2011, 06:53 PM
Andy Murray from St Louis Blues in at WMU. They remain High profile with this hire.

Ron Rolston was a finalist.

5hole
07-25-2011, 06:54 PM
... And although the desire of the AHA westen teams to move to the CCHA for increased scholarships points to programs willing to try growing, they have a long way to go yet. Does LSSU belong with this group of small quasi-D-II programs? Or does LSSU belong with a more serious and stable D-I conference? ...I am not sure what a quasi-D-II program is. However, fyi, three out of the four AHA schools that are meeting with CCHA are full-fledged D-1 programs, certainly not "quasi D-II." Only Mercyhurst is a D-II school. OTOH: Bemidji State, SCSU, Minnesota State, Northern Michigan and UAA ... I believe all are real D-II. Umm - that would be the new WCHA which you describe as a serious and stable D-1 conference?? HUH?

I believe that the western AHA schools are looking very cautiously at whether they are interested in joining the CCHA leftovers. I, for one, would be less than thrilled to escape the dregs of the AHA only to join the unwanted teams of the CCHA. And if things do not work out between the two groups, then I do wish the (probably three) remaining CCHA teams all the best - hope that they stick together and perhaps get UAH to form a lovely and stable four team conference. ;)

Bill
07-25-2011, 07:06 PM
Andy Murray from St Louis Blues in at WMU. They remain High profile with this hire.

Ron Rolston was a finalist.I kind of wonder if Ron Rolston would throw his hat in the ring should the LSSU coaching position open up after this coming season, assuming the Lakers don't show significant improvement from recent seasons and the admin decides it's time for a change. I tend to think we couldn't afford him, but then maybe salary isn't a big driver for him.

DopeyBaker
07-25-2011, 07:22 PM
I kind of wonder if Ron Rolston would throw his hat in the ring should the LSSU coaching position open up after this coming season, assuming the Lakers don't show significant improvement from recent seasons and the admin decides it's time for a change. I tend to think we couldn't afford him, but then maybe salary isn't a big driver for him.

Does he have any more younger brothers he could bring with him? :)


I am not sure what a quasi-D-II program is. However, fyi, three out of the four AHA schools that are meeting with CCHA are full-fledged D-1 programs, certainly not "quasi D-II." Only Mercyhurst is a D-II school. OTOH: Bemidji State, SCSU, Minnesota State, Northern Michigan and UAA ... I believe all are real D-II. Umm - that would be the new WCHA which you describe as a serious and stable D-1 conference?? HUH?

I believe that the western AHA schools are looking very cautiously at whether they are interested in joining the CCHA leftovers. I, for one, would be less than thrilled to escape the dregs of the AHA only to join the unwanted teams of the CCHA. And if things do not work out between the two groups, then I do wish the (probably three) remaining CCHA teams all the best - hope that they stick together and perhaps get UAH to form a lovely and stable four team conference. ;)

No doubt. I think LSSU is starting to fall into the "beggers can't be choosers" category, as far as hockey conferences go...

bronconick
07-25-2011, 07:41 PM
I kind of wonder if Ron Rolston would throw his hat in the ring should the LSSU coaching position open up after this coming season, assuming the Lakers don't show significant improvement from recent seasons and the admin decides it's time for a change. I tend to think we couldn't afford him, but then maybe salary isn't a big driver for him.

Rumor has it that he's taking the HC job for the Rochester Americans in the AHL.

davyd83
07-26-2011, 06:37 AM
So you'd be OK in a conference with Robert Morris and felt that NMU made a mistake in bolting to what remains of the WCHA??

I think the NMU move is a good one. Much like many here feel it would be good for LSSU to move to the WCHA, and I would really like to see that happen. I don't think it will happen, but would like to see it. All I did was point out that this is a two way street. Everyone wants to play the "what's best for college hockey card," but only if it is what's best for their program. What's best for Michigan and North Dakota isn't what's best for NMU and LSSU. And what's best for LSSU and NMU isn't necessarily what's best for Robert Morris and Canisius. I learned a long time ago that what I want and what I get are often very different. I wanted Wayne State and Alabama-Huntsville admitted to the CCHA. I didn't get it. I wanted the rest of the CCHA to stay together after Michgan State, OSU and some school in Ann Arbor left. I didn't get it. I would love to see LSSU come along to the WCHA. I probably won't get that either. But because I've pointed out the reasons that it is unlikely, some put me down as anti LSSU. Because I pointed out in the last post that the attitude among a few poster here is the same one they are complaining about elsewhere, I must be anti LSSU. That's hardly the case. I would like nothing more that to see Tech, LSSU and NMU all in the Frozen Four someday. It was excellent when Tech and NMU were in the same FF.

Truth Squad
07-26-2011, 07:25 AM
But because I've pointed out the reasons that it is unlikely, some put me down as anti LSSU. Because I pointed out in the last post that the attitude among a few poster here is the same one they are complaining about elsewhere, I must be anti LSSU. That's hardly the case.

If you do not stick to the controlled talking points that are put forth by this coach and his buddies on here, you are labeled a whole bunch of things, don't take it personally. I have been attacked relentlessly for pointing out things about the current coach in the past year, getting reprimanded by the league and suspended, filing a "police report" on a linesman who also is a police man up there, players leaving or cut for no reason, the results on the ice, the lack of people in the seats, and that was just last year, not to mention the previous five, and have been labeled all sorts of awful things and names.

Daring to defend the man that built the program and what he did for those people up there, has also caused the attack dogs to come out in full force. Stick to the controlled conversation on here and they will love you. You people are so predictable.

The Truth Is Out There....

Lakerblue
07-26-2011, 09:41 AM
I am impressed with the Andy Murray hire at WMU. Its a profile name, and at least a few years ago he was a fairly good NHL coach. Running a NCAA program is much different than running an NHL team. Not harder or easier, just different. And Murray is 60.

But I don't think those potential negatives are worrying WMU right now. The administration at WMU knows, or seems to know, that the iron is hot right now, and they MUST promote and increase the image of WMU hockey NOW. Hiring a well-known NHL coach (I believe he has NHL GM experience, too) is a high-profile media splash at exactly the right time. WMU wants into UND/Denver/Duluth/CC's club. Western's leadership seems to know that its speculative, at best, for their program to be included in that league. So they are moving quickly to dispell misgivings. Murray is 60 -- but they don't care. They need Murray NOW, not in four years. NOW is when the new leagues are forming. NOW is when a program is either going to move forward as a Major program or get left behind as a Minor program. Will Murray win? Will he bring in recruits? Who knows -- the guy is a blank slate at the NCAA level. But Western doesn't care, really. They need to get into the National Conference this month.

So in that regard, I see Murray as an outstanding hire for Western. I see Murray's hire as a homerun for Western, because it accomplishes the program's most important goal for this summer.

Compare this action once again to LSSU's leadership. NMU was ready -- primed and poised -- to jump to the WCHA when things fell apart. WMU is attacking this situation with a web campaign and a high-profile coaching hire. LSSU, I hope, is working hard behind the scenes.

sm2pk
07-26-2011, 01:59 PM
Only thing coming to college hockey will be a weaker WCHA,a weaker CCHA,a weaker Atlantic Conference just so Penn State can be in a big ten league that will most likely be dominated by 2 or 3 of the same teams year in and year out and small schools like Lake State and others scrambling to play non-confernece games with the big boys now. Lakerblue,I agree with you . Lake State went down to fast under Borek. Something was wrong there big time.

3dognight
07-26-2011, 05:14 PM
I believe the big ten conference will have 4 teams battling it out immediately.
SCum- MSU- Wisconsin - Minnesota will be in the mix with OSU & PSU struggling.

This conference may send 2-3 to NCAAs depending on the out of conference strength of schedule.
Minnesota has already committed to playing other state schools annually.
No such claims from Michigan schools or Wisconsin who may plan games with NHC teams to help pair wise rating.
I do not see many trips to the Soo or BGSU / FSU in their plans. Maybe games in their barn, but not much more than that.

If the Lakers are in the "new" CCHA I hope NMU / MTU have an interest in an ongoing home & home series, where we see one or the other annually.
Those may be the highlight of the schedule.

Laker Dude
07-26-2011, 07:33 PM
Only thing coming to college hockey will be a weaker WCHA,a weaker CCHA,a weaker Atlantic Conference just so Penn State can be in a big ten league that will most likely be dominated by 2 or 3 of the same teams year in and year out and small schools like Lake State and others scrambling to play non-confernece games with the big boys now.

This is a perfect summary of the changes taking place.

Tooth Squid
07-26-2011, 07:43 PM
Truth... got an idea... get a gun and put yourself out of our misery... your lazy *** kid got cut cause he was not D1 material. Bringing Frank the tank back will not bring LSSU back to D1 greatness it will only bring Francis and his lisp back to call the games... although come to think about it that may be better than Dr. Doom doing the games... ok truth... I am on board .... Bring back Frank! The Tooth is out there...
TNA
TNA

Proud2baLaker
07-26-2011, 09:50 PM
Interesting to note that in the article on the front page about the CCHA and AHA meeting they mentioned who was in attendance and they did not list anyone from LSSU.

Proud2baLaker
07-26-2011, 10:01 PM
This is from Atheletic Director Kris Dunbar at a recent event up at LSSU:


"Division 1 college hockey is changing and there is much discussion going on about what may happen," said Dunbar. "What will the CCHA and WCHA do? Right now, it's up in the air. We're looking at what is the best situation for our hockey program. We have been in many discussions with our colleagues in the CCHA, but a lot of what you're hearing is just talk now…We want to put our men's hockey program in a good position when the dust settles. We believe we will do that and it will be a positive situation for us."



So maybe LSSU is not willing to just stay in the CCHA. I have also heard from someone who was at LSSU the same time I was and was very involved in the atheletic department that from what he is hearing from those still in the department that LSSU is closer to joining the WCHA than the new CCHA. Hopefully that is indeed the case.

LSSULaker889294
07-26-2011, 10:48 PM
It looks like Western Michigan made a great hire. WMU is very serious about hockey now and I really think the NCHC will accept them, even if Notre Dame goes to Hockey East.

As for our Lakers, I think it's going to be a few months before we know out fate in 2013-2014. I hope it's not that long though.