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Chuck Schwartz
04-12-2012, 02:40 PM
I always assumed that if a guy was "recruited", he wouldn't come for absolutely nothing. I suppose if he had no one else interested in him, why not come to UW and take advantage of in-state tuition levels.

I'm sure UW has had plenty of players that have been recruited with little or no scholarship. Andy Bohmbach is a recent example that I can think of.

Like you said, the in-state thing certainly helps. As does the allure of playing for a team that you grew up idolizing. If I was a recruit and UW offered me a roster spot and my other options were maybe a half scholarship to schools like Northern Michigan, or Michigan Tech, or even St. Cloud or something...I'm probably taking the UW spot despit not getting much of a scholarship.

I'm sure I'm not the only one. Legend has it Pavelski was only on a half scholarship at Wisconsin. I have no doubt he had full rides from most any school if he wanted it. I even found out recently the Gophers made a late charge at him.

MaizeRage
04-12-2012, 03:01 PM
If you don't mind me asking, where is the criticism coming from?

The criticism is that the biggest concern with the kid is his ability to handle physical play, and he's choosing to play no-contact hockey next year. He's proven about all he can at that level and Minnesota HS hockey is going to be even worse next year than it was this year. It's not going to doom him by any means, but certainly raises some questions.

mnstate0fhockey
04-12-2012, 03:13 PM
The criticism is that the biggest concern with the kid is his ability to handle physical play, and he's choosing to play no-contact hockey next year. He's proven about all he can at that level and Minnesota HS hockey is going to be even worse next year than it was this year. It's not going to doom him by any means, but certainly raises some questions.

Hmmm... I am certainly not going to claim that MNHS hockey is close to as physical as the USHL (I'd argue in ways college hockey isn't as physical as the USHL), but I wouldn't stereotype MNHS hockey as "no contact" either. And I don't think a league like the BCHL is all that much more physical than MNHS hockey.

And may I ask you why you think MNHS hockey is going to be "worse" this season? I assume you are referring to departures. Yes, that has some impact, but there is a lot of talent there as well.

Like I said. I can see both ways. Personally, I think it's a little over-blown. The kid is going to be a great player regardless.

Almington
04-12-2012, 03:13 PM
I'm sure UW has had plenty of players that have been recruited with little or no scholarship. Andy Bohmbach is a recent example that I can think of.

Like you said, the in-state thing certainly helps. As does the allure of playing for a team that you grew up idolizing. If I was a recruit and UW offered me a roster spot and my other options were maybe a half scholarship to schools like Northern Michigan, or Michigan Tech, or even St. Cloud or something...I'm probably taking the UW spot despit not getting much of a scholarship.

I'm sure I'm not the only one. Legend has it Pavelski was only on a half scholarship at Wisconsin. I have no doubt he had full rides from most any school if he wanted it. I even found out recently the Gophers made a late charge at him.

From what I have been told, everyone on the roster gets at least a ~8% ride, as that allows them full access to all resources open to all scholarship athletes (training tables, tutors, etc) that are not available to non-scholarship athletes out of season.

Most of the WI kids are at 25% or less, effectively Eaves sees most of them as role players who start as nothing more than interchangeable parts and that they can earn an increased % based on performance.

For the WI kids who have ended up at other schools, I would suspect that all of them received a larger offer than what UW was offering.

Chuck Schwartz
04-12-2012, 03:38 PM
From what I have been told, everyone on the roster gets at least a ~8% ride, as that allows them full access to all resources open to all scholarship athletes (training tables, tutors, etc) that are not available to non-scholarship athletes out of season.

Good info to know.

Almington
04-12-2012, 04:10 PM
Good info to know.

While I trust my source(s) that everyone receives something, I'm not sure on either the exact amount or the convoluted NCAA compliance reasoning behind it. My understanding is that the level has to do with preventing any player from having to pay extra to be a member of the team or be excluded from any team activities.

WisconsinWildcard
04-12-2012, 05:54 PM
While I trust my source(s) that everyone receives something, I'm not sure on either the exact amount or the convoluted NCAA compliance reasoning behind it. My understanding is that the level has to do with preventing any player from having to pay extra to be a member of the team or be excluded from any team activities.

It also has a lot to do with team meals. Knowing people who work solely feeding UW's athletes, non-scholarship players have to pay extra for team meals, even if they are mandatory. As a hungry college student, one of my friends would bring left overs from football meals quite regularly. They eat pretty well and it translates into very expensive meals ($15-20 a meal) for players not on scholarship (Most of this is from football team meals. I know a lot less about hockey team meals since my friend would work those a lot less but I would assume the situations are fairly similar).

solovsfett
04-12-2012, 06:40 PM
The criticism is that the biggest concern with the kid is his ability to handle physical play, and he's choosing to play no-contact hockey next year. He's proven about all he can at that level and Minnesota HS hockey is going to be even worse next year than it was this year. It's not going to doom him by any means, but certainly raises some questions.

why is MNSHL going to he worse next year? even w/departures to USHL or USNDTP, there is going to be plenty of talent to replace that I can assure you (our mn friends can chime in on that more, I've only been watching the tourney for the last 3-4 years or so...)

Almington
04-12-2012, 06:58 PM
It also has a lot to do with team meals. Knowing people who work solely feeding UW's athletes, non-scholarship players have to pay extra for team meals, even if they are mandatory. As a hungry college student, one of my friends would bring left overs from football meals quite regularly. They eat pretty well and it translates into very expensive meals ($15-20 a meal) for players not on scholarship (Most of this is from football team meals. I know a lot less about hockey team meals since my friend would work those a lot less but I would assume the situations are fairly similar).

I think that team meals during travel are covered, but the daily training table meals would have to be covered by the student. A $10 to $15 meal each day during the season would result in about a $1300 to $2000 bill.

goldy_331
04-12-2012, 07:25 PM
why is MNSHL going to he worse next year? even w/departures to USHL or USNDTP, there is going to be plenty of talent to replace that I can assure you (our mn friends can chime in on that more, I've only been watching the tourney for the last 3-4 years or so...)

The MNSHSL began cracking down on head contact, hits from behind and boarding after the Jablonski injury. Many think it is leading to a less physical game when it was already considered less physical than Midget Major or Junior hockey played elsewhere.

solovsfett
04-12-2012, 11:13 PM
The MNSHSL began cracking down on head contact, hits from behind and boarding after the Jablonski injury. Many think it is leading to a less physical game when it was already considered less physical than Midget Major or Junior hockey played elsewhere.

very interesting...the MNSHSL tourney seemed plenty physical at times, I know I saw some big hits from the kids from Hill-Murray. I'm assuming the tourney was played under the new rules and/or refereeing? or are there further changes to implement next year?

Hammy
04-13-2012, 12:07 AM
very interesting...the MNSHSL tourney seemed plenty physical at times, I know I saw some big hits from the kids from Hill-Murray. I'm assuming the tourney was played under the new rules and/or refereeing? or are there further changes to implement next year?

It is really only one kid on Hill Murray that hits hard and he does a pretty good job of picking his spots. There is no doubt the knee jerk reaction to JJ's situation made the rest of the HS season more wimpy from a physical standpoint. Whether it stays that way or goes back to the way it was before remains to be seen.

RE: Besse. I don't have an issue with Besse staying at BSM. If he was a 2013 recruit, I'd think it was a bad decision since he needs to show a better all around game (like Maize said above). But he'll have another year after HS to show if he can deal with that stuff before college. Next year certainly won't answer the questions about his game though.

It is hard to say anything about BSM's schedule until we see it. I'd be a bit careful about praising any HS loyalty stuff though when you consider he bailed out on his community to play at a private school.

I don't disagree that MNHS will be down next year. When you consider the level of talent in next year's senior class that could be there but won't be (some of this year's best juniors will leave for junior hockey), it will be a shadow of what it could have been.

bucky15
04-13-2012, 06:28 AM
why is MNSHL going to he worse next year? even w/departures to USHL or USNDTP, there is going to be plenty of talent to replace that I can assure you (our mn friends can chime in on that more, I've only been watching the tourney for the last 3-4 years or so...)

I agree until the youth programs in the twin cities start to lose numbers, which I don't see happening. There will always be kids waiting for there chance to shine. The new group of potenial recruits will step in.

bucky15
04-13-2012, 06:31 AM
[QUOTE=Hammy;5428109]
It is hard to say anything about BSM's schedule until we see it. I'd be a bit careful about praising any HS loyalty stuff though when you consider he bailed out on his community to play at a private school.

QUOTE]

I agree with the private school comment and loyalty. I don't understand how some privates play in A and some play in AA. Do you know what the cut off is for this? Do some private schools just decide to play up or are they just much bigger private schools?

Hammy
04-13-2012, 11:41 AM
I agree with the private school comment and loyalty. I don't understand how some privates play in A and some play in AA. Do you know what the cut off is for this? Do some private schools just decide to play up or are they just much bigger private schools?

I'm not 100% sure but I believe the largest 64 schools in student enrollment are automatically considered Class AA. A small number decide to opt up into Class AA (i.e. Grand Rapids, Roseau, Benilde). Since private schools tend to be smaller in enrollment size, they can get away with playing Class A even though they should be playing up. The worst offender IMO is St. Thomas Academy. There's no good reason for them to not be playing AA.

mnstate0fhockey
04-13-2012, 11:50 AM
I'm not 100% sure but I believe the largest 64 schools in student enrollment are automatically considered Class AA. A small number decide to opt up into Class AA (i.e. Grand Rapids, Roseau, Benilde). Since private schools tend to be smaller in enrollment size, they can get away with playing Class A even though they should be playing up. The worst offender IMO is St. Thomas Academy. There's no good reason for them to not be playing AA.

Especially considering St Thomas' enrollment is all-male. And schools like STA and Breck play largely Class AA schedules during the season.

Holy Family Catholic moved up. Time for STA and Breck to as well IMO.

Almington
04-13-2012, 12:03 PM
I don't disagree that MNHS will be down next year. When you consider the level of talent in next year's senior class that could be there but won't be (some of this year's best juniors will leave for junior hockey), it will be a shadow of what it could have been.

But seniors leaving for the USHL/NTDP has been going on for over the last decade+. Are larger number of seniors-to-be leaving or is the junior-to-be class just down relative to the recent past?

Hammy
04-13-2012, 01:06 PM
But seniors leaving for the USHL/NTDP has been going on for over the last decade+. Are larger number of seniors-to-be leaving or is the junior-to-be class just down relative to the recent past?

I think it is a little more severe for next year's senior class.

MaizeRage
04-13-2012, 01:19 PM
I agree with the private school comment and loyalty. I don't understand how some privates play in A and some play in AA. Do you know what the cut off is for this? Do some private schools just decide to play up or are they just much bigger private schools?

There's only four private schools that play AA: Hill-Murray, Holy Angels, Benilde-St. Margaret's, and Holy Family Catholic. By size, they would all be allowed to play Class A, but opted up to AA.

Timothy A
04-14-2012, 09:18 AM
Besse according to the Red Line Report (picking the only negative): "Rarely finishes a check and is a defensive afterthought.'' He better make great strikes in this area this year if he ends up coming a year early. Poor D by a F will get you in the spectator seats under Eaves.