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Fighting Sioux 23
05-08-2011, 08:57 PM
As some of you may or may not know, I have been debating about whether or not to put the research that I've done down on paper, and write a history of college hockey book. As opposed to filling up the Greatest Coach thread with talk about the book, I figured I would open up a thread specifically for it. At this point, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to put something together, and any and all help will be greatly appreciated, and necessary. There are already a few who have said that would help out, but I will take whatever help I can get. My goal is to keep the book around 300-350 pages, although that could be very difficult given the abundance of information that is out there.

Given that, I'm curious, what would you want in a book about the history of college hockey? What are the things that could not be left out? As this project will likely last quite awhile, I am open to any and all feedback and will try to write something that will appeal to our niche sport market. I have no fantasies about this being a huge seller, and I'm largely doing it for two reasons, the first being that I love college hockey, and the second is that I love history.

So please, feel free to comment and ask questions. I am hoping for a lively discussion this offseason.

Thank you in advance :)

Happy
05-08-2011, 09:07 PM
I always want to know the "why" behind the facts.

Fighting Sioux 23
05-08-2011, 09:15 PM
I always want to know the "why" behind the facts.

That can often be a very difficult task, but I'm hoping I'll be able to answer a lot of those why questions. Considering that I'll ideally be starting in the late 19th Century, some of the very early stuff could be difficult to get. I'm thinking that anything post-WWII should be doable though. Fortunately, I have access to some really great historical material.

huskyfan
05-08-2011, 09:17 PM
you are Frank Wilson????!! :eek:;):):D

Patman
05-08-2011, 09:30 PM
That can often be a very difficult task, but I'm hoping I'll be able to answer a lot of those why questions. Considering that I'll ideally be starting in the late 19th Century, some of the very early stuff could be difficult to get. I'm thinking that anything post-WWII should be doable though. Fortunately, I have access to some really great historical material.

Sounds like a lot of library time with little reward for your effort... I'd have to wonder if/what were any NCAA precursors... I'd have to think history up until 1990 would have interest... contemporary things tend not to be as interesting, mostly as we don't see it as historical. I'd wonder how finding players (recruiting) has evolved... you'd have to focus on controversies and personalities for sure. If it were to capture me I think some focus should be more on behind the scenes... how were some of the programs put together, what was a game day in the 1960s... for a player, for a fan, for a six year old.

I don't know what you're going for, but I think it'd be nice to see stories of the time and behind the times more than anything else.

Federal League
05-08-2011, 09:45 PM
I like the idea of going back to the late 1800s and early 1900s because I don't know nearly enough about what college hockey was like back then. For me personally, the further back you go, the more interested I become. From there, I'd be interested in pretty much any narrative of college hockey- the best teams/dynasties, the best coaches, the best games, the best rivalries, changes in recruiting, changes in player development, changes in the game itself, changes in conferences, changes in college hockey's relationship with the NHL. I imagine it would be pretty much impossible to include a comprehensive overview of all of that, so I'm not sure if it would be better to cover a little bit of everything or just go really in-depth on a couple topics.

Fighting Sioux 23
05-08-2011, 10:33 PM
Great ideas everyone...this was exactly what I was looking for.

Recruiting may be a bit difficult, although I'm not sure if the same rules that currently are in place (mainly that school officials can't talk about recruits until they have signed an LOI) were in place.

I'm really not too worried about finding anything post-WWII, and there is already one poster that has put in nearly two decades of research into Pre-WWII college hockey that has volunteered for the project, so hopefully they will be an excellent contributor.

One thing that I think would be fun/interesting would be to have a few different posters write up a piece about a selected area of their interest and include that in the book. Ideally they would be about 6-8 pages, but I would take anything. If you are interested in this particular part, please let me know. As has been said, it's the "behind the scenes" stuff that really piques the interest of most of us. A lot of that doesn't come from historical sources other than first hand accounts.

Anyway, please keep the ideas coming. Thanks :)

Federal League
05-08-2011, 11:06 PM
One thing that I think would be fun/interesting would be to have a few different posters write up a piece about a selected area of their interest and include that in the book. Ideally they would be about 6-8 pages, but I would take anything. If you are interested in this particular part, please let me know. As has been said, it's the "behind the scenes" stuff that really piques the interest of most of us. A lot of that doesn't come from historical sources other than first hand accounts.

I'd definitely be interested in helping with this, too. I'd feel most comfortable doing something Hockey East-related just because I'm already familiar with the league and would have the access. Topics that come to mind right away are the Beanpot, the formation of HE, and the BU-BC rivalry. I'll give it some more thought, though. Feel free to add any suggestions.

Fighting Sioux 23
05-08-2011, 11:18 PM
I'd definitely be interested in helping with this, too. I'd feel most comfortable doing something Hockey East-related just because I'm already familiar with the league and would have the access. Topics that come to mind right away are the Beanpot, the formation of HE, and the BU-BC rivalry. I'll give it some more thought, though. Feel free to add any suggestions.

Beanpot, HE creation and BU-BC rivalry would be great articles. I would pick the Beanpot or the formation of HE, as the BU-BC rivalry will most likely get discussed throughout the book. I think the York-Parker relationship could be pretty interesting, or you could always pick something like the Travis Roy incident and go in depth. There is a lot to pick from.

Sean Pickett
05-08-2011, 11:45 PM
Beanpot, HE creation and BU-BC rivalry would be great articles. I would pick the Beanpot or the formation of HE, as the BU-BC rivalry will most likely get discussed throughout the book. I think the York-Parker relationship could be pretty interesting, or you could always pick something like the Travis Roy incident and go in depth. There is a lot to pick from.Bernie Corbett already wrote a history of the Beanpot published by NU Press in 2002, so I would prefer more on the formation of HE and the interlocking schedule with the WCHA.

Maybe Ralph would be interested in writing a history of the oldest in-season tournament, the RPI Invitational. Or is there a book on it that I missed?

Another idea is a piece on college hockey publications, including The Intercollegiate Hockey Newsletter. I also have some that focused on eastern hockey and the WCHA.

Sean

Ralph Baer
05-09-2011, 12:05 AM
Bernie Corbett already wrote a history of the Beanpot published by NU Press in 2002, so I would prefer more on the formation of HE and the interlocking schedule with the WCHA.

Maybe Ralph would be interested in writing a history of the oldest in-season tournament, the RPI Invitational. Or is there a book on it that I missed?

Another idea is a piece on college hockey publications, including The Intercollegiate Hockey Newsletter. I also have some that focused on eastern hockey and the WCHA.

Sean

Sean, thanks, but I am a terrible writer. I don't think that there is a book about the RPI Tourney (which by the way won't be played in the upcoming season). There was a writeup in the RPI Alumni Magazine sometime back, and it is discussed in Kurt Stutt's book.

Federal League
05-09-2011, 12:20 AM
Bernie Corbett already wrote a history of the Beanpot published by NU Press in 2002, so I would prefer more on the formation of HE and the interlocking schedule with the WCHA.

Good point. I'm also pretty interested in the formation of the league and the interlocking schedule, so that's definitely a strong possibility.

SteveP
05-09-2011, 07:45 AM
Sioux
I can put you in touch with a PSU student who just wrote a paper on the early history of Penn State varsity hockey prior to 1947.

LynahFan
05-09-2011, 08:10 AM
I would definitely like to know more about the behind-the-scenes machinations that culminated in the various conference realignments, mergers, and splits over the years. Who were the key players, what were their motivations, did they get what they wanted, were there unintended consequences?

alfablue
05-09-2011, 08:27 AM
So far, all of my ideas have been posted, but do make sure that you have a focus of the point. If you try to cover everything, it will be pretty dilluted.

But what I did want to comment on was price/cost. I'm pretty sure you won't be doing this for free. I just can't see that being possible. So no matter how well you know someone, you need to charge them some nominal cost to buy the book. Like I said, I would rather you put money and effort into it, and pay a real cost than see you do this as an obsessive hobby and try to give it away. Real effort does mean some kind of monitary rewards for it, so keep that in mind- even for a e-book, you should plan on charging some money. Start a DBA, track your expenses and costs, and that way the sales can be offical, and minimal real tax.

anyway, get back to the content discussion.

Fighting Sioux 23
05-09-2011, 09:08 AM
So far, all of my ideas have been posted, but do make sure that you have a focus of the point. If you try to cover everything, it will be pretty dilluted.

But what I did want to comment on was price/cost. I'm pretty sure you won't be doing this for free. I just can't see that being possible. So no matter how well you know someone, you need to charge them some nominal cost to buy the book. Like I said, I would rather you put money and effort into it, and pay a real cost than see you do this as an obsessive hobby and try to give it away. Real effort does mean some kind of monitary rewards for it, so keep that in mind- even for a e-book, you should plan on charging some money. Start a DBA, track your expenses and costs, and that way the sales can be offical, and minimal real tax.

anyway, get back to the content discussion.

Completely agreed on losing focus. I've set myself a goal of 300-350 pages (really even 250-300 could be doable) and don't want to go over that. If I were to try and cover everything, it would be an encyclopedia (which could be interesting as well, but not the road I want to go down at this point).

As for price, if it is just an e-book, the costs to me would be minimal, other than time. Of course, I suppose time is worth something. If it is something that I decide to get printed and sent out, then there will be extra costs that I would try to recoup some way. If I went that route, i would probably have some sort of pre-order (probably with portions of the e-book available for preview). This is all so early in the game, but I will keep my mind open to charging for the book.

Awesome stuff so far, it's really helping me put my mind around what I should be focusing my research on, so please continue.

Sean Pickett
05-09-2011, 09:17 AM
Sean, thanks, but I am a terrible writer. I don't think that there is a book about the RPI Tourney (which by the way won't be played in the upcoming season). There was a writeup in the RPI Alumni Magazine sometime back, and it is discussed in Kurt Stutt's book.Ralph, youíre a better writer than you think (or are your posts ghost written?). As for Kurt's book, isn't it more of a picture book? Bernie Corbett did one on BU published by Arcadia and it is nice, but has limited history and details.

Is the article from the RPI Alumni Magazine available online or can it be requested? I'm interested in all the changes the tournament has undergone over the past 6 decades. Iím sorry to hear that the tournament isnít being played next season.

Sean

Sean Pickett
05-09-2011, 09:28 AM
But what I did want to comment on was price/cost. I'm pretty sure you won't be doing this for free. I just can't see that being possible. So no matter how well you know someone, you need to charge them some nominal cost to buy the book. Like I said, I would rather you put money and effort into it, and pay a real cost than see you do this as an obsessive hobby and try to give it away. Real effort does mean some kind of monitary rewards for it, so keep that in mind- even for a e-book, you should plan on charging some money. Start a DBA, track your expenses and costs, and that way the sales can be offical, and minimal real tax.There is also the matter of possible contributors being compensated/paid if the book is being sold.

Sean

alfablue
05-09-2011, 10:00 AM
As for price, if it is just an e-book, the costs to me would be minimal, other than time. Of course, I suppose time is worth something. If it is something that I decide to get printed and sent out, then there will be extra costs that I would try to recoup some way. If I went that route, i would probably have some sort of pre-order (probably with portions of the e-book available for preview). This is all so early in the game, but I will keep my mind open to charging for the book.


this- your time is not free. As a reader, except for publications that have either no or expired licences (as in you can get Mark Twain et al for free), you get what you pay for.

Personally, I would much rather pay for your time as well as the others. IMHO, I would get a better book.

Ralph Baer
05-09-2011, 11:49 AM
Ralph, youíre a better writer than you think (or are your posts ghost written?). As for Kurt's book, isn't it more of a picture book? Bernie Corbett did one on BU published by Arcadia and it is nice, but has limited history and details.

Is the article from the RPI Alumni Magazine available online or can it be requested? I'm interested in all the changes the tournament has undergone over the past 6 decades. Iím sorry to hear that the tournament isnít being played next season.

Sean

Thanks for your opinion.

Yes, Kurt's book is mainly a picture book. It's probably similar to the BU book.

The alumni magazine is on line. IIRC, the tourney discussion was in an article on Harkness and probably didn't go into much detail.