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redhawk95
03-22-2011, 11:56 PM
It really isn't all that much different than Nebraska-Omaha being in the CCHA. The trip for Lake State to Omaha is 15-16 hours, from Rochester to Marquette you're looking at 12-13. Granted, it's far from an ideal situation, but when you consider that for Miami to get to Northern it's a good 11 hours then it doesn't really look so bad. I'm not saying I'm a proponent of RIT joining the CCHA as I haven't done enough research, I just don't think that the distance is really that big of a factor at this point. When schools are already driving 9-11 hours to get to Marquette, what's an additional 2 or 3 for RIT? That said, I think the CCHA would need to add another school from the Erie/Ontario corridor to help to balance the league out and to give RIT a conference rival. I think Niagara and RIT would make the most sense at face value to join as a pair, but like I said, I need to do some more research on the subject.

Agreed. Good points.

NMU8405
03-23-2011, 12:41 AM
RIT cannot give scholarships (like Union, they moved up too late to be grandfathered for scholarship purposes). I think they are happy to be in a limited scholarship league. ECAC Hockey is probably their dream location.

Right on the point there. And I know its been discussed, but D-1 programs such as Niagara and RMU that may be looking to get out of the limited scholarship situation in AHA could certainly jump ship.

Miami and Notre Dame will not go anywhere for now unless the MAC creates a league, which will not happen soon. Notre Dame hockey lost 1.2 million dollars in 09-10 and most likely lost money this season. Miami has been told to cut its budget by 7-10%, so adding the costs of travel, be it in the WCHA or Hockey East...both are flights every weekend, will not happen.

This will all be a moot point in 10-20 years when the SECHC joins D-1 Hockey (Hey..the BTHC is out the window now as a joke. Might as well start a new one).

bigmrg74
03-23-2011, 02:52 AM
RIT cannot give scholarships (like Union, they moved up too late to be grandfathered for scholarship purposes). I think they are happy to be in a limited scholarship league. ECAC Hockey is probably their dream location.

RIT could give scholarships if they moved the rest of their athletic department up to NCAA D2. They could try to get into the PSAC, if nothing more than as an associate member for football, and I do believe that there is another D2 league in the western NY area as well for their other sports like basketball.

Rhett
03-23-2011, 03:23 AM
RIT could give scholarships if they moved the rest of their athletic department up to NCAA D2. They could try to get into the PSAC, if nothing more than as an associate member for football, and I do believe that there is another D2 league in the western NY area as well for their other sports like basketball.

RIT will never join NCAA II. There are no potential conference homes that would make sense for them both geographically and academically. They are far more likely to join NCAA I at some point, but in this economic climate and with a growing wall of red-tape blocking the NCAA I door, that is also unlikely in the short term. For the purposes of this CCHA discussion, RIT is not a viable expansion option at this time or in the foreseeable future.

bigmrg74
03-23-2011, 03:49 AM
RIT will never join NCAA II. There are no potential conference homes that would make sense for them both geographically and academically. They are far more likely to join NCAA I at some point, but in this economic climate and with a growing wall of red-tape blocking the NCAA I door, that is also unlikely in the short term. For the purposes of this CCHA discussion, RIT is not a viable expansion option at this time or in the foreseeable future.
Part of that hurdle to get to D1 looks to be being D2 right now. If you really want to go that route, then sooner or later RIT would have to be D2 to become D1. RIT would have to suck it up for a few years anyways.

yooper(UP) hockey
03-23-2011, 08:08 AM
The media attention surrounding the CCHA always seems so Michigan/Michigan State centered, so I wonder how much of media attention would be gone? Would FSN Detroit be that inclined to show CCHA hockey without them?



Does the 8 team lineup really hold up in terms of credibility? Miami has been a legitimate power for a while, Notre Dame is usually solid, but then after? Ferris, Alaska, and Northern usually find ways to be average, Western was terrible until this year, Bowling Green is bad, and Lake State isn't looking too good either. It could be a rocky slope.



These are the questions. It'll be an interesting few years for the CCHA. Especially for the small schools like Ferris. As a Ferris fan, I wonder if this puts the program at all in jeopardy? We'll see.. The worry is that the recruits slowly go away from the conference as a whole, and everyone gets weaker within.

All good points for the CCHA (media, credibility, and recruiting). Great statements

AnchorsAway
03-23-2011, 08:27 AM
The media attention surrounding the CCHA always seems so Michigan/Michigan State centered, so I wonder how much of media attention would be gone? Would FSN Detroit be that inclined to show CCHA hockey without them?

As a Ferris fan, my worry would be if Notre Dame or Miami tried to jump ship to somewhere else. I have no idea how feasible any of that is, but you never know. Plus, with Minnesota/Wisconsin out, what would the chances of anyone leaving/joining the WCHA/CCHA be?

Does the 8 team lineup really hold up in terms of credibility? Miami has been a legitimate power for a while, Notre Dame is usually solid, but then after? Ferris, Alaska, and Northern usually find ways to be average, Western was terrible until this year, Bowling Green is bad, and Lake State isn't looking too good either. It could be a rocky slope.

I suppose you could try to convince new schools to join, and hope that some of the other MAC (Toledo? CMU isn't happening anytime soon) or GLIAC (GVSU?) schools decided to jump in. But it doesn't seem likely. I know Alabama-Huntsville wanted the 12th spot this year, I don't know if they would get put in.

These are the questions. It'll be an interesting few years for the CCHA. Especially for the small schools like Ferris. As a Ferris fan, I wonder if this puts the program at all in jeopardy? We'll see.. The worry is that the recruits slowly go away from the conference as a whole, and everyone gets weaker within.

Hey now, Lake State is in better shape now than they have been in at least the last 5 years...speaking of "not looking too good", didn't we shut you guys out both times we played you last season? :D....In all seriousness though, nice post I agree with most of what you said, it should be interesting to see how this all pans out in the end

Back check
03-23-2011, 10:02 AM
Many posters think it is very unlikely Alabama-Huntsville will be accepted in to the CCHA. Their reasoning is that they were rejected when they applied to be the 12th team, they will be rejected if they apply to be the 9th team. The schools that didn't want to travel to UAH in a 12-team league will certainly not want to travel to Huntsville even more in a 9-team league. If UAH is not accepted by CCHA, things do not look good for the program to continue.

yooper(UP) hockey
03-23-2011, 10:11 AM
Many posters think it is very unlikely Alabama-Huntsville will be accepted in to the CCHA. Their reasoning is that they were rejected when they applied to be the 12th team, they will be rejected if they apply to be the 9th team. The schools that didn't want to travel to UAH in a 12-team league will certainly not want to travel to Huntsville even more in a 9-team league. If UAH is not accepted by CCHA, things do not look good for the program to continue.

I hope that UAH is accepted in the CCHA. Exposure in the south is important in the long run of the sport.

College Hockey Weekend
03-23-2011, 10:24 AM
Many posters think it is very unlikely Alabama-Huntsville will be accepted in to the CCHA. Their reasoning is that they were rejected when they applied to be the 12th team, they will be rejected if they apply to be the 9th team. The schools that didn't want to travel to UAH in a 12-team league will certainly not want to travel to Huntsville even more in a 9-team league. If UAH is not accepted by CCHA, things do not look good for the program to continue.

I do hope the CCHA accepts UAH. Here is a program that is willing to jump through hoops ringed with fire to get into a conference in an area of the country in the Southeast that is relatively untapped by college hockey, and the CCHA as we all know needs teams to survive. Is it a match made in heaven? Not necessarily, but what the CCHA and UAH needs to understand is that its a marriage of necessity and not being accepting of the other could mean the end of both entities.

Jim
03-23-2011, 10:32 AM
Right on the point there. And I know its been discussed, but D-1 programs such as Niagara and RMU that may be looking to get out of the limited scholarship situation in AHA could certainly jump ship.

Miami and Notre Dame will not go anywhere for now unless the MAC creates a league, which will not happen soon. Notre Dame hockey lost 1.2 million dollars in 09-10 and most likely lost money this season. Miami has been told to cut its budget by 7-10%, so adding the costs of travel, be it in the WCHA or Hockey East...both are flights every weekend, will not happen.

This will all be a moot point in 10-20 years when the SECHC joins D-1 Hockey (Hey..the BTHC is out the window now as a joke. Might as well start a new one).

I'm not so sure that RMU and Niagara are in that much of a hurry to leave AHA. For one thing they've only been there a year. For another they are in a pretty stable place now. After the perils of pauline they went through with CHA I'm not sure they want to get involved with another fluxuating situation. And AHA has demonstrated that it can be a factor in the post-season. RIT to the Frozen four was the culmination, but Holy Cross and Air force have won 1st round games, too. Beyond those, from an AD's perspective, lots of things about AHA work pretty well. The AHA West, excepting Air Force, is located in a pretty tight area. Driving times are pretty reasonable from point to point. From the point of view of an AD, who has to make the budget work, it isn't such a bad thing not ot have to put our team on planes for games as Mercyhurst did when they were a western outpost playing mostly Eastern seaboard teams in the early days of the league. the same can be said for the Eastern pod by the way. I know the some of the coaches and most of the fans would rather have 18 scholarships. Not sure that the various ADs and school adminstrations see it quite the same way.

oldish husky
03-23-2011, 10:36 AM
Many posters think it is very unlikely Alabama-Huntsville will be accepted in to the CCHA. Their reasoning is that they were rejected when they applied to be the 12th team, they will be rejected if they apply to be the 9th team. The schools that didn't want to travel to UAH in a 12-team league will certainly not want to travel to Huntsville even more in a 9-team league. If UAH is not accepted by CCHA, things do not look good for the program to continue.

My apologies for posting on the CCHA thread as an MTU fan, but I'm definitely keeping an eye on things from the perspective of wanting to see successful hockey programs at NMU and LSSU. Perhaps the reason that UAH wasn't originally accepted by the CCHA was because they wanted to give that spot to Penn St. Now that the BTHC is here, that's not longer an issue. Travel would be a problem, but as others have mentioned, there is something to be said for getting at least closer to a 10 team league.

MoFan
03-23-2011, 10:44 AM
Curious if there's any bitterness among remaining CCHA team fans............as a Michigan fan I have to say I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed because:
(1) I think a 6 team conference is lame and we play Minnesota and WI quite frequently it seems
(2) Even if this is better for "us" - I fear that we're really hurting some other D1 teams and there should be consideration of their welfare. If this causes Miami and/or ND to leave, isn't college hockey worse off overall?
(3) I will miss the rivalries - any given year or weekend, Miami, ND, Ferris State, Western Michigan.........they can kick your butt. I even go back to the days when LSSU was an absolute force.

I don't know all the facts here, but I just don't feel good about this. Somebody explain to me why I'm wrong (apart from money) and make me feel better!

AnchorsAway
03-23-2011, 10:59 AM
Curious if there's any bitterness among remaining CCHA team fans............as a Michigan fan I have to say I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed because:
(1) I think a 6 team conference is lame and we play Minnesota and WI quite frequently it seems
(2) Even if this is better for "us" - I fear that we're really hurting some other D1 teams and there should be consideration of their welfare If this causes Miami and/or ND to leave, isn't college hockey worse off overall?
(3) I will miss the rivalries - any given year or weekend, Miami, ND, Ferris State, Western Michigan.........they can kick your butt. I even go back to the days when LSSU was an absolute force.

I don't know all the facts here, but I just don't feel good about this. Somebody explain to me why I'm wrong (apart from money) and make me feel better!

The only way I can see bitterness is if the world was still run on morality, your word is your bond type of basis...the world we live in now is all about money and making a profit and big business. The Big Ten is big business so I don't think it surprised anyone that they wanted to try their hand at college hockey....

AnchorsAway
03-23-2011, 11:01 AM
My apologies for posting on the CCHA thread as an MTU fan, but I'm definitely keeping an eye on things from the perspective of wanting to see successful hockey programs at NMU and LSSU. Perhaps the reason that UAH wasn't originally accepted by the CCHA was because they wanted to give that spot to Penn St. Now that the BTHC is here, that's not longer an issue. Travel would be a problem, but as others have mentioned, there is something to be said for getting at least closer to a 10 team league.

Speaking for myself I can say that this LSSU fan reciprocates your hope for success among the other UP schools ( just not aginst the Lakers of course lol) even though the consensus is that MTU will never leave the WCHA, I will always hope for a day when all three UP schools are competing in the same conference!

yooper(UP) hockey
03-23-2011, 11:08 AM
Speaking for myself I can say that this LSSU fan reciprocates your hope for success among the other UP schools ( just not aginst the Lakers of course lol) even though the consensus is that MTU will never leave the WCHA, I will always hope for a day when all three UP schools are competing in the same conference!

You hit on the spot lssu vs mtu vs nmu. I hope someday these schools can all play home and home series.

-----It is one of the saddest setups in college hockey. -----

These schools should be together in some shape and form. Get the three presidents of the colleges together and lets play many games together.

I Want Shegos
03-23-2011, 11:10 AM
I'd be really surprised if the CCHA puts UAH in even now. They faced Ferris this year at Big Rapids, and that series was easily the most deserted series from a crowd standpoint all season. When looking at the remaining CCHA teams, I think they'd have that same problem. I don't think UAH would sell for anything with the other CCHA teams. The program really doesn't have any name recognition to draw in ticket sales. Plus, the team has just not really been that good the past few years, which weakens sales more, and could worry teams about Pairwise issues. That, plus 9 is an awkward number for a conference, and these teams aren't going to want to travel to UAH either. I just don't see it. I would think a lot of the CCHA would probably rather schedule in one of the Big Ten teams or WCHA teams instead of having to schedule UAH.

komey1
03-23-2011, 11:16 AM
Not to speak for Niagara since I am an RIT fan, but there were many people who were unhappy about Niagara going to AHA. The only reason they applied is that the AD thought it would be more viable to be in a conference than try to tough it out as an independant. I believe Niagara would jump at the chance to join the CCHA.

I agree that the ECAC is a more viable option for RIT should they want to leave. They did an inquiry about joining when they started discussions regarding moving up to DI. Being able to compete at that level without scholarships at that time did not seem to be practical (see the Union example as to how long it took them to be a good program) and the AHA was more practical. However, barring the Ivy League schools leaving OR realignment due to a Northeastern school such as Syracuse adding hockey, I don't see anything changing there. RIT has shown that they are certainly an up-and-comer with a Frozen Four appearance, several league regular season titles, and now having a player in the NHL to boost visability.

Also, I may be wrong, but rink attendance/capacity wise, when RIT builds their new arena (capital campaign is underway), I think they will be in the best shape of any AHA team to move to a bigger conference even with the no athletic scholarship limit.

redhawk95
03-23-2011, 11:26 AM
Many posters think it is very unlikely Alabama-Huntsville will be accepted in to the CCHA. Their reasoning is that they were rejected when they applied to be the 12th team, they will be rejected if they apply to be the 9th team. The schools that didn't want to travel to UAH in a 12-team league will certainly not want to travel to Huntsville even more in a 9-team league. If UAH is not accepted by CCHA, things do not look good for the program to continue.

Unfortunately, I believe you're right. Their admission does not look likely...to me.

redhawk95
03-23-2011, 11:32 AM
Curious if there's any bitterness among remaining CCHA team fans............as a Michigan fan I have to say I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed because:
(1) I think a 6 team conference is lame and we play Minnesota and WI quite frequently it seems
(2) Even if this is better for "us" - I fear that we're really hurting some other D1 teams and there should be consideration of their welfare. If this causes Miami and/or ND to leave, isn't college hockey worse off overall?
(3) I will miss the rivalries - any given year or weekend, Miami, ND, Ferris State, Western Michigan.........they can kick your butt. I even go back to the days when LSSU was an absolute force.

I don't know all the facts here, but I just don't feel good about this. Somebody explain to me why I'm wrong (apart from money) and make me feel better!

I'm not bitter...now. But, if this whole thing fails, and by that I mean, 1) BTHC fails, loses money, collapses and the schools want back into their original conferences, 2) this decision leads to the dissolution of the CCHA or other leagues, or 3) several schools drop hockey as a result and the sport is worse off because of this. THEN I'll be bitter.

I'm hoping this will perhaps encourage more schools to consider D-I hockey but it's a wait and see.

So, trying to be optimistic but if this thing ends up doing more harm than good, that's when I'll be bitter. :)