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tdzro
03-21-2011, 10:31 PM
So let's decide if a Big 10 Conference is viable with only 6 teams. Would they play each other 4 times Home/Away weekends? If so that fills 20 games/10 weekends on the schedule and is very balanced. The season ending tourney would encompass 2 weekends, the Top 2 seeds are auto bid to the semis and the other 4 teams play the weekend before, so if you took the schedule back from the 1st week of the NCAA, the 1st week of conference play would start the week before xmas, allowing the GLI to continue during the Xmas break week. Now, what to do with the other 6 weekends where the CCHA currently plays today (Oct-early Dec). Could these teams find enough openings on other teams schedules to make up for all of those games? I like that perhaps other teams could be added from other conferences that normally are not scheduled (more mini-tourneys? Hockey showcases?). So the question just beckons, could they make up those other 6-10 games each year. I think so. Also, 5 of these teams are traditionally decent, so the conference will be fine with ratings, etc.

The thing I love about this arrangement is that we may see many of these games on the Big 10 network and being that I moved from Michigan to Florida, this will help quench my appetite for UM hockey. Hence another reason why this works.

Now can Penn St get a team together?

Let's look to see if any other Big 10 teams would join:
Illinois? Who knows.
Iowa? Doubt it.
Northwestern? Why are they still in the Big 10?
Purdue? Doubt it.
Indiana? Heck they aren't even a basketball school anymore.
Nebraska? Hmmm, if UNO has a team is that really a Big 10 team or something else? I really don't understand the UN-L and UN-O relationship here...

So, it stands to reason that no other Big 10 teams join in except if the money is enticing enough they may, which will be good for the NCAA hockey in general, more scholarships, more players, more money (I think). I think I like the move, although a 6 team conference just sounds drab. But who really cares about the conference that much, the NCAA tourney is the focus. Maybe if UNO and UND joined up, then that would be best. Play a hockey showcase with Miami, BGSU, Ferris, Western, etc.

UML
03-21-2011, 10:31 PM
Northeastern should be in the Northeast.
shuffle and redeal

5 conferences broken down into ten divisions.

west-
air force, alaska, alaska-anchorage, army, colorado, denver

north midwest -
bemidji, minnesota, minn-duluth,, minn-state, north dakota, st cloud

michigan -
ferris state, lake superior, michigan tech, north mich, west mich

big ten -
michigan, mich state, minnesota, ohio state, penn state, wisconsin

central -
alabama-huntsville, bowling green, miami, nebraska, notre dame, robert morris

empire -
clarkson, niagara, rit, rpi, st lawrence, union

ivy -
brown, cornell, dartmouth, harvard, princeton, yale

north east -
bentley, maine, merrimack, unh, umass-lowell, vermont

massachusetts -
aic, bc, bu, holy cross, umass, northeastern

east -
canisius, colgate, connecticut, mercyhurst, qunnipiac, sacred heart

just grouped teams geographically best i could. kept ivies together, big ten together. easy pairings and travel partners in empire. kept army with air force. each team will play a lot of local teams, but can schedule ooc for old rivals. you guys might flip a few of the teams around, feel free.

pair up the divisions for conferences (west/north midwest, michigan/big ten, central/empire, ivy/northeast, mass/east). play each team in division 2-3 times, each in conference 1-2, and then choose ooc past that.

each conference has a tourney, with the top four teams from each division making it in. number 1 in division a vs number 4 from division b and so on. conference winners get autobids, everything else is power rankings.

Red Cloud
03-21-2011, 11:15 PM
This thread makes Baby Jesus cry.

kingdobbs
03-21-2011, 11:24 PM
You do realize that UConn is a basketball heavy school in a basketball heavy conference right? They aren't leaving the Big East moneymaker anytime soon, certainly not for a hockey they care nothing about.

They're a basketball heavy school in a basketball heavy conference with a football team, however. It's that last part that would make all the difference in the world, because Big Ten football money is bigger money than Big East basketball money.

IF an invite came, UConn would have to be profoundly stupid in the head not to take it, especially because in all likelihood any move the Big Whatever will make to go to 16* is gonna dynamite the Big East (i.e. Notre Dame). It makes no sense to stay in the carcass of the Big East in that situation.

*Apart from, of course, the laser-guided nuclear missile to the rest of college football that would be grabbing Oklahoma, Texas, Mizzou and A&M.

Jimjamesak
03-21-2011, 11:39 PM
They're a basketball heavy school in a basketball heavy conference with a football team, however. It's that last part that would make all the difference in the world, because Big Ten football money is bigger money than Big East basketball money.

IF an invite came, UConn would have to be profoundly stupid in the head not to take it, especially because in all likelihood any move the Big Whatever will make to go to 16* is gonna dynamite the Big East (i.e. Notre Dame). It makes no sense to stay in the carcass of the Big East in that situation.

*Apart from, of course, the laser-guided nuclear missile to the rest of college football that would be grabbing Oklahoma, Texas, Mizzou and A&M.
You do realize this is the same Big East that has the highest rated tournament and 11 teams in the NCAA Tournament? I think if the Big East loses Notre Dame, they'll be ok you know, considering Notre Dame does not play Big East football.

The Big East cares about one thing: Basketball. That's the whole purpose of it.

ClOuD 9
03-21-2011, 11:51 PM
Give UConn to Hockey East so they have every state school with Hockey (the lone without is Rhode Island). Give Northeastern to Atlantic Hockey (on the condition that Atlantic Hockey get rid of their dumb scholarship rule). NU can still play in the Beanpot. Dont worry about it.
UConn's Women's hockey program currently plays in Hockey East and I wouldn't be surprised to see them someday hop leagues should their athletic department begin providing the program with additional resources. Dropping Northeastern would never happen, they were a founding member and their women's program plays in Hockey East.


Isn't UML also one of the founding members?
No, the founding members were BC, BU, Northeastern, Providence, and UNH - Maine waited to defect and Lowell was then invited before the league started play (from memory).

kingdobbs
03-22-2011, 12:13 AM
You do realize this is the same Big East that has the highest rated tournament and 11 teams in the NCAA Tournament? I think if the Big East loses Notre Dame, they'll be ok you know, considering Notre Dame does not play Big East football.

The Big East cares about one thing: Basketball. That's the whole purpose of it.

No, I was apparently avoiding the entire Big East Tournament and NCAA Selection Show by hiding under a rock, with my fingers in my ears and going LALALALALALALALALALA so that I would not hear anything having to do with basketball. :rolleyes:

What the Big East, as a conference, cares about is irrelevant. It's what the teams care about.

If the choice is between an open invite for Big Ten football money*, and sticking with Seton Hall and Providence...every single Big East football school is going to take the former. Even the ones that suck at hoops.

And if the Big East loses Notre Dame, it's going to be because the league has lost other people too. If Notre Dame really wanted to leave its comfy seat, they would've done so already. The only way Notre Dame is moving is if that seat is no longer comfortable. That means a dead, dying, or about to be scavenged for scrap Big East.

*Cause at this point, that's the only reason any team will be moving.

tdzro
03-22-2011, 12:49 AM
Northeastern should be in the Northeast.

And Minnesota can only play in one conference.

Khryx
03-22-2011, 01:05 AM
With the creation of the B1GHC, the only teams that seem likely to consider movement would be the Alaska teams. Which conference they would end up in would probably depend on the financials but together in the same conference seems extremely likely in the near future.

Other schools that may consider movement would be schools like Robert Morris, Michigan Tech, Niagra, RIT, etc. Basically any school that MIGHT see some sort of financial benefit (due to travel or revenue) or added success by moving to a different conference (Tech would probably fair better in the CCHA). I realize that Michigan Tech is pretty well entrenched in the WCHA but they have jumped to the CCHA before...

Due to travel expenses, I don't think the CCHA teams will flee to other conferences unless all or nearly all of them decide to do so at once. It seems more likely that teams like Robert Morris would join the conference.

I still have no clue what will happen with UAH. The CCHA may have turned them away before because of the B1GHC potentially looming and wanting to wait to see what would happen.

Red Cloud
03-22-2011, 05:56 AM
With the creation of the B1GHC, the only teams that seem likely to consider movement would be the Alaska teams. Which conference they would end up in would probably depend on the financials but together in the same conference seems extremely likely in the near future.

Please explain to me why they are currently in different conferences.

Gallery, let him answer, please. I know some of you out there are clued in but this is a teachable moment.

bluevox
03-22-2011, 08:33 AM
"BTHC (8 teams)"



It is called the Big Ten, to have anything other than 10 teams in it would be stupid.........:)

Flashy Man
03-22-2011, 10:48 AM
This might be useful. (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/91309/Schools.pdf)

dutchbrowncoat
03-22-2011, 11:17 AM
And Minnesota can only play in one conference.

good call. had them in there twice and forgot providence, my bad. pulled the original post anyway though. my rep was getting absolutely hammered. didn't think it was worth it for just tossing a different idea out there.

sbkbghockey
03-23-2011, 11:06 AM
There's a number of schools that will add NCAA DI hockey, if given a conference opportunity:

Lindenwood, Minot St, Minn St-Moorhead, British Columbia (mid-April NCAA anouncement)

Others that could/would, under the right circumstances :

Navy, Rhode Island, Liberty, possibly Grand Valley State

As well as some dream additions:

Buffalo, Syracuse, DePaul, Iowa St, Texas, Oklahoma, Stanford, Washington, Oregon (with Nike $'s), Utah (with the advent of new Pac10, Big 12, Texas, and likely Oklahoma networks, the need for additional programming is acute.)

WCHA adds UBC and loses MTU, creating the potential for more West Coast additions.

Notre Dame, Miami, Bowling Green, and W Michigan secede from CCHA and add Robert Morris, UAH, Lindenwood, and Niagara to form new conference

CCHA adds MTU, plus Grand Valley St, MSU-Moorhead, and Minot State to create regional northern tier league

AHA adds Liberty, Navy, and Rhode Island


Just don't see Notre Dame and Miami staying with Upper Peninsula schools. While UAH, Robert Morris, Lindenwood, and Niagara are not exactly well known names, they at least offer media coverage in relatively large metro areas. Notre Dame has probably been working the phones with schools Big East schools like DePaul, Pitt, Syracuse, UConn to upgrade, and maybe even Iowa State and Texas, etc., but the probability of those happening is likely remote.

I could also see the CCHA looking to add Ohio Univ and Kent State bringing back a leauge footprint they once had and focusing on the Ohio Michigan Area. The CCHA could add Lindenwood and re-enter the St. Louis Market (they had St. Louis Univ back in the day and have since hosted events in St. Louis, most recently the 2010 Ice Breaker Tourney and the 2011 West Regional this weekend. Another school in the CCHA footprint is Univ. of Evansville. They're building a multipurpose arena in Evansville for Purple Aces basketball and minor league hockey, but I suspect that team will not last and it provides the perfect opportunity for UE, a private catholic university that would create an instant rivalry with Notre Dame.

jjmc85
03-23-2011, 12:40 PM
UConn would be full member in the expansion to sixteen. They are an up-and-comer in all major sports--football had a BCS bid this year and played at the Big House, men's and women's hoops are always solid, and they hosted a baseball regional last year and are ranked again this year--quality in all three major sports. Hockey gives the rest of the conference a doormat for a while until that program grows. Plus you finally add the East Coast market for the network. UConn is a natural choice for expansion.

When I first read your plan without UConn in the AHA, I figured it was because you foresaw them cutting their program. Having been to a UConn game at UConn, I personally believe that is exponentially more likely.

Squarebanks
03-23-2011, 01:01 PM
Regarding the AK schools:

It would be much easier for UAA to switch to the CCHA. Problem is, UAA has a hard-on for the WCHA (can't say I blame them with all the uncertainty going on), so it would take some major financial incentives to dangle in front of UAA, and I highly doubt the CCHA leftovers (excluding UAF) would have much interest in making that work.

UAF to the WCHA? I'd love it. Problem is, the WCHA seems inclined to flip the bird to everybody else and go back to 10 teams. Right now the only way I'd see the Nanooks being able to make that move is if both Alaska schools worked together to make it financially appealing to the rest of the WCHA. Possible? Yes. Likely? I'm not holding my breath.

But then again, stranger things have happened.


With the creation of the B1GHC, the only teams that seem likely to consider movement would be the Alaska teams. Which conference they would end up in would probably depend on the financials but together in the same conference seems extremely likely in the near future.

Other schools that may consider movement would be schools like Robert Morris, Michigan Tech, Niagra, RIT, etc. Basically any school that MIGHT see some sort of financial benefit (due to travel or revenue) or added success by moving to a different conference (Tech would probably fair better in the CCHA). I realize that Michigan Tech is pretty well entrenched in the WCHA but they have jumped to the CCHA before...

Due to travel expenses, I don't think the CCHA teams will flee to other conferences unless all or nearly all of them decide to do so at once. It seems more likely that teams like Robert Morris would join the conference.

I still have no clue what will happen with UAH. The CCHA may have turned them away before because of the B1GHC potentially looming and wanting to wait to see what would happen.

Hincha
03-23-2011, 02:15 PM
You do realize this is the same Big East that has the highest rated tournament and 11 teams in the NCAA Tournament? I think if the Big East loses Notre Dame, they'll be ok you know, considering Notre Dame does not play Big East football.

The Big East cares about one thing: Basketball. That's the whole purpose of it.

Miami, BC and Virginia Tech all left the Big East recently. Would not surprise if there are other departures in the future. Football is where the money is at, therefore if school wants to explore that, basketball may take a rear seat.

Jimjamesak
03-23-2011, 02:32 PM
Regarding the AK schools:

It would be much easier for UAA to switch to the CCHA. Problem is, UAA has a hard-on for the WCHA (can't say I blame them with all the uncertainty going on), so it would take some major financial incentives to dangle in front of UAA, and I highly doubt the CCHA leftovers (excluding UAF) would have much interest in making that work.

UAF to the WCHA? I'd love it. Problem is, the WCHA seems inclined to flip the bird to everybody else and go back to 10 teams. Right now the only way I'd see the Nanooks being able to make that move is if both Alaska schools worked together to make it financially appealing to the rest of the WCHA. Possible? Yes. Likely? I'm not holding my breath.

But then again, stranger things have happened.
I think recent history has shown the two schools are able to work together, at least on items of mutual interest. I wouldn't be surprised if something is being discussed already. I've gotten the feeling that UAF has been ready to bail on the CCHA for a while, having to pay 25 airline tickets per is a drain. I could see them trying to work something out.

I don't see UAA leaving the WCHA at this point, there's no viable option right now.

unofan
03-23-2011, 03:04 PM
Another school in the CCHA footprint is Univ. of Evansville. They're building a multipurpose arena in Evansville for Purple Aces basketball and minor league hockey, but I suspect that team will not last and it provides the perfect opportunity for UE, a private catholic university that would create an instant rivalry with Notre Dame.

Yeah, I somehow doubt a school that barely funds its basketball team at anything resembling a proper level is going to have the money to throw at starting a hockey team.

Evansville was a pretty weak addition to the Missouri Valley; I doubt they'll be starting hockey any time in the next 30 years at a bare minimum.

Rover
03-23-2011, 03:26 PM
I have three goals in mind: 1) preserve all 6 conferences (CCHA and AHA at most risk, WCHA, ECAC, HE and Big Ten Network conference ;) should be fine). 2) Allow for expansion, and 3) get some geographic balance wherever possible.

So, first the easy way.

Leave WCHA, HE, ECAC as is. WCHA has still has several anchor teams and will have a couple of spaces for expansion down the road although I have no schools in mind for that right now. CCHA keeps two anchor schools (ND and Miami) who should rather be big fish in small pond instead of competing against North Dakota, Denver, etc for league titles every year. Move Mercyhurst and Robert Morris over to conference which still allows expansion (Pitt?) and lines up well geographically. AHA takes independent Alabama-Huntsville and tries to convince Navy to join up. AHA keeps Air Force, Niagara, etc. This way both CCHA and AHA are strengthened.

OR: Service academies go CCHA and have an opening for possible Navy program.

More complicated:

Alaska and Air Force go to WHCA which works better geographically (but prevents any new programs from joining). CCHA still takes RMU and Mercyhurst as well as Niagara and tried to convice one other "name" program to join. 7 team AHA takes Alabama-Huntsville and has room for the next 4 programs that make the leap (again Navy, McDonalds U, etc). While this doesn't leave the AHA in great shape, it does open up some slots for a quicker expansion as the AHA is a natural landing spot for a new program.