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FireKnight
03-16-2012, 10:04 PM
Attendance: 3462. Horrendous.

RPI fan 4 life
03-16-2012, 10:07 PM
Exactly. For the record, RPI and Union would probably be able to combine to do a better job of marketing an Albany tournament, but they shouldn't have to. Part of that falls on the venue. Part of it falls on the league - and that part isn't giong to be fixed just by playing a shell game with the location.

Not surprisingly, bothman wants to have his cake and eat it too, but it's time to face facts - the ECAC tournament is no longer just going to sell itself, and this same tired, boring argument has not changed from last season. The only thing that has changed is the venue, and it's now worse (which is why I'm still laughing at the people who were so desparate to get the tournament moved out of Albany). Boston remains a suicidal option, if only because the ECAC would be very publicly and comparatively playing second fiddle to Hockey East. Lake Placid's Olympic-sized rink makes it less than ideal.

The truth is that the only drawback to Albany, right now, is the venue's unwillingness to properly market the event. That's not a minor hurdle, but it's realistically the only one. Atlantic City seems more like Albany on crack - not only did it do an equally terrible job of pimping the event (again, partially the league's fault), it's also a haul from basically everywhere. It was a league money grab, pure and simple.

The nostalgia for Lake Placid is nice (and understandable, I loved the tournament there too), but it's not feasible.

Absolutely correct on all counts, RC. As someone who attended every tournament game in Albany, it would have been interesting to see how many RPI fans would have been there if they had made it.

Anyway, a lot of discussion has to start with which teams make it to the final four (sorry NCAA). IMHO, this is how I would rank how many fans travel to any site regardless of where it is played:
Top 4
Cornell, Clarkson, RPI, Harvard
Middle 4
Colgate, Yale, Dartmouth, St. Lawrence
Bottom 4
Union, Quinnipiac, Princeton, Brown

Get those top 4 teams in any tourney finals, and no discussion would be needed...

Muskieman
03-16-2012, 10:10 PM
While my preference would be Lake Placid, it should be held anywhere but AC. Perhaps we might get TV coverage and a better turnout if the tournament was NOT held in AC.

FireKnight
03-16-2012, 10:14 PM
Absolutely correct on all counts, RC. As someone who attended every tournament game in Albany, it would have been interesting to see how many RPI fans would have been there if they had made it.

Anyway, a lot of discussion has to start with which teams make it to the final four (sorry NCAA). IMHO, this is how I would rank how many fans travel to any site regardless of where it is played:
Top 4
Cornell, Clarkson, RPI, Harvard
Middle 4
Colgate, Yale, Dartmouth, St. Lawrence
Bottom 4
Union, Quinnipiac, Princeton, Brown

Get those top 4 teams in any tourney finals, and no discussion would be needed...

You're partially right that the teams matter. I don't at all understand why Union (despite it's President's musings) as a pretty decent sports school, doesn't travel well. Princeton can't even sell out a home game at Hobey Baker unless it's against Yale.

I posted this on the CCT threads earlier. I was in AC on Wednesday and I saw a huge billboard on the Expressway coming into AC that was half devoted to the A10 finals and half the ECAC Championships. I thought to myself, "Self, they're actually marketing this thing." Then I proceeded into AC and could not find one person or venue besides the box office that knew anything about any college hockey games coming to AC. In fact, I found a gal wearing a Union shirt and she didn't even know that UC was in a hockey tournament, much less that it was going to be right there in AC.

MarkEagleUSA
03-16-2012, 10:19 PM
Then I proceeded into AC and could not find one person or venue besides the box office that knew anything about any college hockey games coming to AC.When I was there last year the people taking our tickets in the lobby didn't even know what was going on in the hall that day. They looked at me in my jersey and asked what it was for. :rolleyes:

RPI fan 4 life
03-16-2012, 10:25 PM
You're partially right that the teams matter. I don't at all understand why Union (despite it's President's musings) as a pretty decent sports school, doesn't travel well. Princeton can't even sell out a home game at Hobey Baker unless it's against Yale.

I posted this on the CCT threads earlier. I was in AC on Wednesday and I saw a huge billboard on the Expressway coming into AC that was half devoted to the A10 finals and half the ECAC Championships. I thought to myself, "Self, they're actually marketing this thing." Then I proceeded into AC and could not find one person or venue besides the box office that knew anything about any college hockey games coming to AC. In fact, I found a gal wearing a Union shirt and she didn't even know that UC was in a hockey tournament, much less that it was going to be right there in AC.

First of all, Union not traveling well at all is an understatement. They can't even bring 200 fans 15 miles down Route 7 to watch Union-RPI. And I've been to some home games where they don't get 1500 fans to show up (Messa Rink only holds 2500 or so). And of course, it doesn't surprise me about what you said about AC. I was actually surprised that there were even 3462 fans in attendance.

J.D.
03-16-2012, 10:30 PM
Is there a consensus on what is better...Albany or LP? Or is there a split?

FireKnight
03-16-2012, 10:39 PM
First of all, Union not traveling well at all is an understatement. They can't even bring 200 fans 15 miles down Route 7 to watch Union-RPI. And I've been to some home games where they don't get 1500 fans to show up (Messa Rink only holds 2500 or so). And of course, it doesn't surprise me about what you said about AC. I was actually surprised that there were even 3462 fans in attendance.

3462 can be attributed to .. Cornell travels well.

I really think the ECAC needs to market their game better. I've heard all the small school hullabaloo and such but the facts are these. First, Versus became NBC-Sports Network and really picked up the pace with hockey in general, college hockey, and also ECAC hockey. With the Rangers and Bruins playing so well this season, hockey is big in the northeast and people are watching the game more and more. I can't count the number of folks that have come to me this year and talked about college hockey. I've even run into 2 folks in my work (separately) that said they saw the games in LP over Christmas, not because they planned it, but because it was going on while they were there.

The fact that these games are in AC and not on TV is absolutely killing the small strides college hockey and ECAC hockey are making in this area. Honestly, if they have to move the games to Thursday/Friday to get some TV time, I would do it. The 3462 that went to AC last night really could care less about taking the extra day off of work. Heck, if they moved the Friday to a late afternoon game, you might even save those folks the expense of another night in a hotel.

FireKnight
03-16-2012, 10:41 PM
Is there a consensus on what is better...Albany or LP? Or is there a split?

There will never be a consensus. Both have their ups and downs. I think the biggest problem with Albany though might be the arena itself. I kind of think they might have been looking to get out of the ECAC hockey contract and we may not be able to get back in there if we wanted to.

aweise
03-16-2012, 10:43 PM
First of all, Union not traveling well at all is an understatement. They can't even bring 200 fans 15 miles down Route 7 to watch Union-RPI. And I've been to some home games where they don't get 1500 fans to show up (Messa Rink only holds 2500 or so). And of course, it doesn't surprise me about what you said about AC. I was actually surprised that there were even 3462 fans in attendance.

You obviously weren't at any Union games this year, because we consistently had 2000 fans at each game. Maybe a few less than that here & there, but it was usually around that number.

Nevertheless, they may have sold 3462 tickets for this weekend, but that's a generous number. I doubt that many fans were there, even with Cornell's showing.

FireKnight
03-16-2012, 10:49 PM
You obviously weren't at any Union games this year, because we consistently had 2000 fans at each game. Maybe a few less than that here & there, but it was usually around that number.

Nevertheless, they may have sold 3462 tickets for this weekend, but that's a generous number. I doubt that many fans were there, even with Cornell's showing.

I was at last year's Clarkson game at Union and the place was close to sold out or actually sold out. In fact, I had such a cruddy seat that I couldn't stand up because of some beam running across the roof.

As far as Union not traveling well for an event like the ECAC Championships, there's not enough empirical evidence to support or refute that claim. They certainly do not travel well to regular season road games but you never know about the playoffs.

Honestly, even the NC$$ roundball tourney has fallen victim to the economy. I'm watching Notre Dame and Xavier in Greensboro right now and the place is half empty. You haven't seen that in NC$$ tourney games in years.

UnionSoccerDad
03-16-2012, 10:59 PM
There were no Harvard fans in AC tonight. Cornell clearly had the biggest contingent, and Union was a comfortable second.

Veritas
03-16-2012, 11:03 PM
Atlantic City is the pits!!!! I sent the longest month of my life there attending a 4 day conference. Nothing to do in the area if you are not interested in casinos.

Lake Placid is a lovely area but way to far from anywhere else. The nearest big cities are Ottawa, ON and Montreal, QC. I might drive to Utica or Albany but would not face the Lake Placid drive willingly.

About 7 or 8 years ago the Harvard women were in the women's final four when it was in Providence, Dunkin Donuts Center was a nice rink, good seating, drew fans from all the schools involved. Hotels are nearby and Providence has lots of great restaurants.

Hartford is also a nice arena with good seating and amenities and not to far from any school compared with Atlantic City. Easy driving as downtown contains the intersection of I84 and I91.

Portland, Maine also has a nice arena, good hockey town, good amenities and restaurants etc. Probably closer to all schools than Atlantic City.

I cannot think of a city less suited to host a hockey tournament than Atlantic City with the possible exception of Norman, OK and I don't think Norman has a rink.

rdf8585
03-16-2012, 11:16 PM
From best to worst -

1. Albany - probably the best centralized location, big arena

2. Lake Placid - great hockey town, historic arena with ample capacity (7500-ish). Has to be a way to solve the wide ice issue. Lots to do in/around town, but it's off the beaten path.

3. Glens Falls - One of my favorite venues to watch a hockey game. Depends on what happens with the HS tourney. Not the biggest arena, can only stretch to about 5500 with SRO. But easy to get to, close to other attractions like Lake George.

4. Syracuse - Would have to schedule around the Crunch, but arena can sit 6500 and six schools are within 3 hours.

5. Springfield - Not a bad location (2 hours or less for Union, RPI, QPac, Yale, Harvard, Brown) but the MAAC basketball tournament moved there and it hasn't been supported well. Arena holds 6500 for hockey.

FireKnight
03-16-2012, 11:22 PM
Portland, Maine also has a nice arena, good hockey town, good amenities and restaurants etc. Probably closer to all schools than Atlantic City.

I cannot think of a city less suited to host a hockey tournament than Atlantic City with the possible exception of Norman, OK and I don't think Norman has a rink.

Although I agree that AC sucks, you can't possibly even consider Portland. First of all, it's Hockey East country. Second, it's further than AC from 7 of the 12 member schools. You might as well make that 9 of the member schools when you consider the drive from Potsdam and Canton across VT and NH is just horrid in any type of weather. At least when you're traveling south from the North Country, you're pretty much out of the bad stuff by the time you hit Warrensburg.

FireKnight
03-16-2012, 11:44 PM
From best to worst -

1. Albany - probably the best centralized location, big arena

2. Lake Placid - great hockey town, historic arena with ample capacity (7500-ish). Has to be a way to solve the wide ice issue. Lots to do in/around town, but it's off the beaten path.

3. Glens Falls - One of my favorite venues to watch a hockey game. Depends on what happens with the HS tourney. Not the biggest arena, can only stretch to about 5500 with SRO. But easy to get to, close to other attractions like Lake George.

4. Syracuse - Would have to schedule around the Crunch, but arena can sit 6500 and six schools are within 3 hours.

5. Springfield - Not a bad location (2 hours or less for Union, RPI, QPac, Yale, Harvard, Brown) but the MAAC basketball tournament moved there and it hasn't been supported well. Arena holds 6500 for hockey.

I haven't been to the Syracuse arena in years but when I was there for the old SIT, it was a dump. Glens Falls and Springfield are interesting ideas. I'd also throw Bridgeport into the mix. It's a bit of a haul from the NC but it's a new arena in a revitalized area of town and it's an arena that is looking for clients. You'd have to schedule around the Sound Tigers but that can be done (how long did we schedule around the Rats). Also, Bridgeport, while a drive from some schools is still relatively "central" and it's also close to the huge alumni contingents of almost all of the member schools called NYC.

LTsatch
03-16-2012, 11:50 PM
I haven't been to the Syracuse arena in years but when I was there for the old SIT, it was a dump. Glens Falls and Springfield are interesting ideas. I'd also throw Bridgeport into the mix. It's a bit of a haul from the NC but it's a new arena in a revitalized area of town and it's an arena that is looking for clients. You'd have to schedule around the Sound Tigers but that can be done (how long did we schedule around the Rats). Also, Bridgeport, while a drive from some schools is still relatively "central" and it's also close to the huge alumni contingents of almost all of the member schools called NYC.

BPT Springfield HTF has my vote

rdf8585
03-16-2012, 11:59 PM
In the past few years, Glens Falls has replaced all their old seats, put in a new sound system, and installed two video boards. It's likely that next season is the last year the AHL Phantoms are there (could be scheduled around anyway) and the future of the HS tourney is in doubt. That place could use the dates.

Bridgeport wouldn't top my list, but it isn't a bad idea... certainly better than AC. I don't know about the alumni angle, though. That hasn't worked out too well for AC.

MARooney
03-17-2012, 01:04 AM
How about Manchester, NH? New(ish) AHL arena ... relatively easy travel for everyone ... : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_Wireless_Arena

redhead18
03-17-2012, 05:45 AM
In the past few years, Glens Falls has replaced all their old seats, put in a new sound system, and installed two video boards. It's likely that next season is the last year the AHL Phantoms are there (could be scheduled around anyway) and the future of the HS tourney is in doubt. That place could use the dates.Im really starting to like the idea of having the tournament in Glens Falls and there definately wouldnt be a problem filling the place if any combo of Cornell, Clarkson, RPI or SLU make it either. Although, I have a feeling "The Dunk" in Providence will be the next facility to host the event, considering they tried pretty hard to get the league to leave AC this season. (http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/schott/2011/sep/12/is-ecac-hockey-tournament-on-the-move-to-providenc/) (I couldnt find the original link to the story from the Providence Journal.)