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MarkEagleUSA
03-23-2011, 06:39 PM
http://www.msnsportsnet.com/content/LibertyBowl62305.jpgWell, if they use this same end-wall treatment I might consider giving it a second chance! ;)

LTsatch
03-23-2011, 09:32 PM
I believe the building also contains the worlds largest pipe organ.

Bullmoose
03-23-2011, 10:39 PM
I believe the building also contains the worlds largest pipe organ.

Right, though it was being repaired/renovated while we had our tourney there...

CornwallAce
03-24-2011, 10:32 AM
If they are willing to try Atlantic City, then I would think Syracuse would be a good choice, even if for the sole purpose of seeing how Syracuse would think about their college(no, not Le Moyne!) joining the hockey ranks.


Actually, if they are willing to try Atlantic City, then why not Pittsburgh or Portland, Maine. =]

FlagDUDE08
03-24-2011, 10:33 AM
If they are willing to try Atlantic City, then I would think Syracuse would be a good choice, even if for the sole purpose of seeing how Syracuse would think about their college(no, not Le Moyne!) joining the hockey ranks.


Actually, if they are willing to try Atlantic City, then why not Pittsburgh or Portland, Maine. =]

At least the ECAC has a college in the state of New Jersey...

Also, SU already is in the hockey ranks. Granted it's the women's team only, but it's still a start. Plus, if Syracuse were to be used, it'd be tough having to schedule around the Crunch, since really the only place to play is the War Memorial; I sincerely doubt Baldwinsville is near large enough, and Tennilly is REALLY small, heck it seemed full for a women's game.

SlyFoxMan7
03-24-2011, 01:06 PM
I never really understood the nothing going on in Albany argument against having it there. Is everyone so used to so much going on in the thriving metropolises of Canton, Hamilton, Hanover, Hamden, New Haven, Princeton and Potsdam that 24 hours in Albany is unbearable?

FlagDUDE08
03-24-2011, 01:15 PM
I never really understood the nothing going on in Albany argument against having it there. Is everyone so used to so much going on in the thriving metropolises of Canton, Hamilton, Hanover, Hamden, New Haven, Princeton and Potsdam that 24 hours in Albany is unbearable?

I think it has to do more with walking distance (or more local) attraction as well as townie involvement. At least with a college campus, you're going to have some little chinese food or pizza shack nearby to grab some quick grub before the game, and the locals (at least in New Haven, Potsdam, and Canton) are very supportive of their local college hockey team. Albany is just a basketball town and college town, and not only right within the state capital with probably limits commercial ability, but it isn't very well advertised. You'd think around the time of the ECACs, businesses within walking distance would really be putting out the word to get people to stop by before, between, or after the games, but I don't think they really did.

SlyFoxMan7
03-24-2011, 01:34 PM
I think it has to do more with walking distance (or more local) attraction as well as townie involvement. At least with a college campus, you're going to have some little chinese food or pizza shack nearby to grab some quick grub before the game, and the locals (at least in New Haven, Potsdam, and Canton) are very supportive of their local college hockey team. Albany is just a basketball town and college town, and not only right within the state capital with probably limits commercial ability, but it isn't very well advertised. You'd think around the time of the ECACs, businesses within walking distance would really be putting out the word to get people to stop by before, between, or after the games, but I don't think they really did.

A lot of this has to do with Union and RPI making a combined one appearance while it was in Albany. That's not Albany's fault. That's RPI and Union's fault for stinking it up so bad. It was better with Union there last year and if RPI had ever made it, they would have brought more fans. I don't think any region would do well locally if their respective teams didn't make it.

FlagDUDE08
03-24-2011, 01:43 PM
A lot of this has to do with Union and RPI making a combined one appearance while it was in Albany. That's not Albany's fault. That's RPI and Union's fault for stinking it up so bad. It was better with Union there last year and if RPI had ever made it, they would have brought more fans. I don't think any region would do well locally if their respective teams didn't make it.

We blame the "everyone makes the playoffs" rule designed for you guys. :D

But you're absolutely correct. Get the local team in, or even some schools with good traveling fan bases, and you have success in this endeavor. That is why one thought of mine was to have the ECAC championships at the highest remaining seed's home location.

bothman
03-24-2011, 02:06 PM
We blame the "everyone makes the playoffs" rule designed for you guys. :D

But you're absolutely correct. Get the local team in, or even some schools with good traveling fan bases, and you have success in this endeavor. That is why one thought of mine was to have the ECAC championships at the highest remaining seed's home location.

This is a good idea, but won't fly.

This is why we need a location with large amounts of alumni across all schools (ie, Boston, NYC - where the jobs are). Cornell will always travel better than Harvard & Princeton, but let's try and minimize the impact of who is playing to the actual attendence.

A lot of the locations suggested (Syracuse, Utica, Bridgeport) don't pass the litmus test when it comes to this.

There may be no solution to this issue. But let's at least give it a shot. Albany did not deliver on this front, and by all accounts, neither did AC.

FlagDUDE08
03-24-2011, 02:16 PM
This is a good idea, but won't fly.

This is why we need a location with large amounts of alumni across all schools (ie, Boston, NYC - where the jobs are). Cornell will always travel better than Harvard & Princeton, but let's try and minimize the impact of who is playing to the actual attendence.

A lot of the locations suggested (Syracuse, Utica, Bridgeport) don't pass the litmus test when it comes to this.

There may be no solution to this issue. But let's at least give it a shot. Albany did not deliver on this front, and by all accounts, neither did AC.

I didn't think it would fly either. Obviously it will work for the women's programs, but not for the men's.

If you want to maximize attendance without worrying about who is playing, then you need to find a community with a very good local supporting of hockey. Sadly, I think you're pretty much limited to Lake Placid, or some other similar small town. Bridgeport or Hartford we wouldn't know unless Yale happened to not be involved, as I would guess that they are the reason Bridgeport's regional has sold so well thus far.

aweise
03-24-2011, 02:18 PM
A lot of this has to do with Union and RPI making a combined one appearance while it was in Albany. That's not Albany's fault. That's RPI and Union's fault for stinking it up so bad. It was better with Union there last year and if RPI had ever made it, they would have brought more fans. I don't think any region would do well locally if their respective teams didn't make it.

While true, FlagDUDE is right. Albany didn't do a good job of selling the event. The majority of people there were fans of the teams involved or a fan of an ECAC team that was going to make the trip, anyway. Rarely did I hear of people going just because it was hockey (and I was there all 8 years). You probably wouldn't have known that the event was happening if you didn't follow hockey.

I will say that if RPI or Union made it there every year, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

bruno
03-24-2011, 02:42 PM
This is why we need a location with large amounts of alumni across all schools (ie, Boston, NYC - where the jobs are).
Albany did not deliver on this front, and by all accounts, neither did AC.

Seems like the consensus is that Boston would be the most attractive venue from virtually every standpoint. But a suitable, neutral site (not HEA-connected) in Boston is unavailable, so why not consider the completely renovated Dunk (11,940 hockey capacity) in Providence, 40 miles away?

On the other hand: I know there are some negatives, but in my mind, Lake Placid still rules.

Jerry1
03-24-2011, 03:07 PM
One reason why the ECAC moved the tournament out of Albany was that the TUC had become very difficult to work with and they wanted to black out all games for TV. Cities like Bridgeport and Manchester, NH were also ruled out because they host NCAA games every other year so the ECAC would be unable to get a multi-year deal with those cities. That's one thing you have to keep in mind, if cities are hosting an NCAA game they may not want to have a conference tournament the weekend before.

Ralph Baer
03-24-2011, 03:37 PM
While true, FlagDUDE is right. Albany didn't do a good job of selling the event. The majority of people there were fans of the teams involved or a fan of an ECAC team that was going to make the trip, anyway. Rarely did I hear of people going just because it was hockey (and I was there all 8 years). You probably wouldn't have known that the event was happening if you didn't follow hockey.

I will say that if RPI or Union made it there every year, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

Agreed. Of course, neither made it to AC either. :D

MarkEagleUSA
03-24-2011, 04:11 PM
You'd think around the time of the ECACs, businesses within walking distance would really be putting out the word to get people to stop by before, between, or after the games, but I don't think they really did.Last year during our first trip to Albany, my daughter and I went down to the area of the rink around 11:30am on Saturday. Nothing was happening so we started walking towards the center of town to see what was around. I spotted a familiar name, Dunkin Donuts, and said "a decent cup of coffee would be nice". Lo and behold, at 12:05 pm, it was closed, only open until noon! Are you serious (that was their posted Saturday closing time BTW)? Downtown Albany in the midst of the ECAC championship and they closed their doors at noon? I was floored, but it goes to show what the local businesses thought of the tourney.

fatty1942
03-24-2011, 05:04 PM
The first ECAC tournament I went to was in Boston in the early 90s... I was only about 12 or 13, but I remember being in awe of the Garden, and I loved the experience. Then, when the tourney moved to Lake Placid, it was even better. Nothing beats Placid in the winter. They thrive in that season, and the mystique of the 1980 Olympic team was still there. They had youth hockey tournaments going on at the same time, the bobsled run, Whiteface, the toboggan slide, pickup hockey games on the lake... TONS of stuff for kids and adults to do. I didn't go to the tournament in Albany because I had moved to Long Island and could never work it out, but I grew up in Albany, and I know the businesses there are generally oblivious to anything currently happening. I went to the March Madness tournament at the Knick, and there was literally nothing to do around the arena but go to the games.

In my opinion, Atlantic City is a horrible place for the tournament. It is south of every team. The city is not in good shape, though I know they've been fixing it up. If you walk anywhere off the boardwalk, you're literally taking your life into your hands. This is no place for a family to go, especially with little kids. Not to mention the fact that the place looked empty on TV. Bring it back to Placid! I would much rather make the 5+ hour trek from Long Island to Upstate NY rather than the 3 hour drive to AC any day. Boston would be my second choice.

Red Cloud
03-24-2011, 05:15 PM
While true, FlagDUDE is right. Albany didn't do a good job of selling the event. The majority of people there were fans of the teams involved or a fan of an ECAC team that was going to make the trip, anyway. Rarely did I hear of people going just because it was hockey (and I was there all 8 years). You probably wouldn't have known that the event was happening if you didn't follow hockey.

I will say that if RPI or Union made it there every year, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

Exactly. For the record, RPI and Union would probably be able to combine to do a better job of marketing an Albany tournament, but they shouldn't have to. Part of that falls on the venue. Part of it falls on the league - and that part isn't giong to be fixed just by playing a shell game with the location.

Not surprisingly, bothman wants to have his cake and eat it too, but it's time to face facts - the ECAC tournament is no longer just going to sell itself, and this same tired, boring argument has not changed from last season. The only thing that has changed is the venue, and it's now worse (which is why I'm still laughing at the people who were so desparate to get the tournament moved out of Albany). Boston remains a suicidal option, if only because the ECAC would be very publicly and comparatively playing second fiddle to Hockey East. Lake Placid's Olympic-sized rink makes it less than ideal.

The truth is that the only drawback to Albany, right now, is the venue's unwillingness to properly market the event. That's not a minor hurdle, but it's realistically the only one. Atlantic City seems more like Albany on crack - not only did it do an equally terrible job of pimping the event (again, partially the league's fault), it's also a haul from basically everywhere. It was a league money grab, pure and simple.

The nostalgia for Lake Placid is nice (and understandable, I loved the tournament there too), but it's not feasible.

Eph72
03-16-2012, 07:45 PM
When I discovered that the games today are not being televised (and I would have to drive down to Atlantic City to see the finals) it reminded of this thread from last year.

Anybody have any new ideas about where the tournament should be held?

Any reports from Atlantic City?

ColSkate65
03-16-2012, 09:43 PM
Unless Princeton makes it into the final four there is no team even close to AC to provide a fan base. It makes no sense to have it there, especially when anywhere else in the northeast would be near some of the other teams. This year Albany would have been great with 3 NY teams in the final four. Even Springfield or Hartford or Binghamton would make better sense than AC. One look at the stands on the rpi-tv broadcast showed that the turnout was lousy. And we have the ECAC/AD's to thank for this state of affairs?