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Saints#1
03-21-2011, 04:54 PM
The ice size is a problem at Lake Placid...

None of the teams play at the Olympic sized ice sheet during the regular season so equal playing field for everybody, not one specific team will have an advantage or a disadvantage to a different size ice sheet.

Saints#1
03-21-2011, 04:58 PM
For the next 2 years, Lake Placid is the home of the NCAA Men's D-III Finals. Sorry.

And they'll outdraw the ECAC both days..

They outdraw the ECAC attendance figures from Albany and Atlantic City, but not when the ECAC tournament was there. Lake Placid bid for the ECAC's to come there last year and they want the tournament to come back. Clearly they would make adjustments to accomodate both tournaments, they would have had to do so if they had won the bid. And pay attention to the fact that the NCAA Men's D-III Finals are only for two more years in Lake Placid hmmmmmm wonder what other contract also expires in two years (Atlantic City). Maybe they know something that we don't ;)

Wholin1
03-21-2011, 05:14 PM
;)OK, if not Vegas, I actually think I could come around for Lake Placid for most of the reasons already cited. The big drawbacks seem to be the size of the ice sheet and noncentral location, rural roads, wintry weather, etc. First, these are kids, let them skate around a little more it won't bother them. The coaches will complain, but they're all dealing with the same conditions, so get over it. As far as the locale, who cares if Princeton and Brown will have to trek? Their fans don't show up anyway. The roads really aren't that bad, just a bit winding at times and we all have steering and related equipment on our vehicles, right? For crying out loud, this is hockey, and we all deal with the elements during hockey season. Besides, a big storm in late March though by no means unheard of is less likely than in January and February.

I think what really sold me on Placid is the Halloween Faceoff last fall. I hadn't been to LP for a hockey game since the 80 Olympics and there really was a buzz in the town and it was obviously a pretty big deal. The fact that there were two compelling games didn't hurt (and these were essentially exhibition games), but the same is likely in the Championship. The rink facilities are a bit dated but the capacity is perfect, large enough to accomodate a decent crowd and small enough to force fence sitters to buy tix to avoid being shut out.

I always was pretty happy about the games being in Albany, but only because it was convenient for me. I am willing to sacrifice for the common good. ;)

Bullmoose
03-21-2011, 07:02 PM
I vote for MSG, Providence, Springfield, and Albany, in that order. I would put TD Garden first if hockey east wasn't having a tournament there already on the same weekend.

The reason TD Garden comes close to selling out for hockey east is that most years there is at least one Boston-area school playing (and two more often than not). Also, hockey east schools are very tightly packed around Boston (I think Maine has the longest trip, but their fans travel well regardless), with a lot of these schools having large alumni bases in the city (to augment the student sections).

ECAC is at a disadvantage, as we have smaller, further-flung schools. I don't think we should focus on the locals, I think that we've got to rely more on alumni making the trip. That's why I think MSG might work (if we can get the building). It's national stage, it's glitzy, it's cool, it's a destination in itself, and it sets us apart and puts us on the same level as WCHA, CCHA, and Hockey East. I think that there will be plenty of alums of the schools that are involved that live in/near NYC that would want to go to the tournament if only to see their team in The Madison Square Garden. Students might make the trip too...

I put Providence second because of the number of alums from all of our schools that live in Boston and environs. It doesn't have the appeal of NYC and MSG, but, as kdiff mentioned, it's been thoroughly revitalized in the recent year. Also, the Federal Hill is awesome: imagine Boston's North End, but with better yet cheaper Italian food and readily available parking.

Springfield and Albany are on the list because of centrality.

Those are my two cents re: future locations. Now, I went to tourney in AC this past weekend and here are few thoughts:

1) Someone mentioned that Hockey East has $10 tickets for students and we didn't have student pricing. We actually did, you just had to ask at the box office. I got a $16 ticket for each session with my grad school ID.

2) Just want to re-iterate what someone said: ice was crap. Kinda embarrassing.

3) Dartmouth had a reception in a ballroom inside the arena before the semifinal. Free fingerfood and cash beer ($12 for a 24oz can, which is decent price inside the arena). Dunno if other schools did the reception, though I think I saw Yale at the same place before final.

4) Commercial breaks were brutal, but probably because I am not used to them, watching Dartmouth and UMass hockey live a lot.

5) Free parking at the Trump was nice.

6) I was able to leave and come back inside between the Saturday games: talked to the security person at the entrance and they stamped my hand, which gave me a right to come back in. Ate at the mall on the boardwalk.

7) The workers there were very friendly and tried to be as helpful as they could. See #6. Also, I accidentally dropped an item near my seat on Saturday and realized that when I got to my car. Ran back, and even though they were closed, a security person walked me to where I was sitting so that I could retrieve what I dropped.

8) It's way too far... been already mentioned on here.

That's about all I can think of for now...

HighlanderRPI
03-21-2011, 07:21 PM
I would like to see Hartford or Springfield possibly alternated with Albany - central location to many teams, close to BDL International Airport for any fans with the money to fly in, and an easy drive for me ;)

Seriously, though - I would think the CT/Springfield corridor is in driving distance for many alumni / fans of the ECAC schools just due to the job markets in the area - the UTC companies are in CT and employ a lot of engineering alums, Boston is not that far (Harvard), nor is Providence area (Brown), New Haven / North Haven is a stones throw (Yale/QU), Capital District (RPI/Union) is like two hours at MOST if you drive like a granny. NJ is a doable drive up 95 to 91 (Princeton). And the Western NY teams can rent a mule or two and all come out I-90 together :p

NH is not a far drive either, I know because it's where I get my liquor.

LGR03
03-21-2011, 07:26 PM
The ECAC championships will not be at MSG anytime soon.

1. The cost is almost certainly prohibitive. Whatever it is will be way more than free in AC.
2. As a result of 1, tickets will be way more than ECAC fans are used to paying.
3. NYC is expensive in general. The cost for participating schools will be higher there than anywhere else.
4. They host Big East hoops at MSG for basically the whole week before and it's unlikely the Knicks and Rangers go that long without some weekend games.

If you want to tap the NYC alumni market, which I think is a step in the right direction, the IZOD center and new Brooklyn arena are better bets. Though I expect they'll want to start hosting NCAA hoops in Brooklyn as soon as they can. Bridgeport is a hole but is easily accessed by train from the city. Ther arena is walking distance. If you sacrifice festival atmosphere (the main argument for Placid) in the name of fannies in seats and want the building to look, or threaten to be, full Harbor Yard is not a bad spot at all.

In a related note, it's a shame the women's NCAA tournament ends the same week as the men's conference tournaments. I'd like to see the women's conference final played at the same site as the men's final some day. Do away with the consolation game or play the consy at 2, women at 5, men at 8.

Marmot
03-21-2011, 07:47 PM
Maybe I'm crazy (or perhaps just hopelessly biased because the venue I suggest is mere blocks from my office) but I think Bridgeport would be a great site. Why?

1) It's a perfect size: about 9500 for hockey.
2) It's proven that it can effectively promote hockey tournaments. The NCAA regional sold out there two years ago, and this year's regional has already sold 6600 tickets for the tourney games this weekend.
3) Most importantly, although Bridgeport is not the nicest city in the universe (believe me: I work there; I know) it IS in the heart of Fairfield County. Based on the economic demographics of Fairfield County I tend to think there are TONS of ECAC grads there. Not to mention that the next county over is Westchester with very similar demographics. Plus, it's only an hour and ten minute train ride from NYC to the venue with the train station being only blocks away. Although not as centrally located as Albany, it is not as unreasonably located as say, Atlantic City.

You've got to get three things: students, alums and random people. I think, based on location, you could get all three to Bridgeport.

I'm sure LTsatch could add some to this as he has a thread on the NCAAs in the BPT this weekend.

UnionHockeyManiac
03-21-2011, 09:13 PM
The ECAC championships will not be at MSG anytime soon.

1. The cost is almost certainly prohibitive. Whatever it is will be way more than free in AC.
2. As a result of 1, tickets will be way more than ECAC fans are used to paying.
3. NYC is expensive in general. The cost for participating schools will be higher there than anywhere else.
4. They host Big East hoops at MSG for basically the whole week before and it's unlikely the Knicks and Rangers go that long without some weekend games.

If you want to tap the NYC alumni market, which I think is a step in the right direction, the IZOD center and new Brooklyn arena are better bets. Though I expect they'll want to start hosting NCAA hoops in Brooklyn as soon as they can. Bridgeport is a hole but is easily accessed by train from the city. Ther arena is walking distance. If you sacrifice festival atmosphere (the main argument for Placid) in the name of fannies in seats and want the building to look, or threaten to be, full Harbor Yard is not a bad spot at all.

In a related note, it's a shame the women's NCAA tournament ends the same week as the men's conference tournaments. I'd like to see the women's conference final played at the same site as the men's final some day. Do away with the consolation game or play the consy at 2, women at 5, men at 8.

Stop making sense. :mad:

In all seriousness though, I think it would be awesome to have the ECAC Tourney at the Garden. I know it's unlikely and nearly impossible, but I would love to see it some day.

LTsatch
03-21-2011, 09:25 PM
Stop making sense. :mad:

In all seriousness though, I think it would be awesome to have the ECAC Tourney at the Garden. I know it's unlikely and nearly impossible, but I would love to see it some day.

I would never give Dolan a cent of my money. That organIzation (as Melrose would put it) is as crooked as they come. The ECAC will never be able to afford NYC. I contemplated calling WFAN to just to brag about Yale being the #1 seed on the air, but they have never mentioned any college hockey on that station. NYC is a Rangers town, but it is not and never will be a college hockey town!

cornellgradyalefan
03-21-2011, 10:27 PM
I contemplated calling WFAN to just to brag about Yale being the #1 seed on the air, but they have never mentioned any college hockey on that station.

Francesa is arrogant and contemptuous of hockey in the extreme. If you called his show and he allowed you on the air, he would probably call you crazy for even caring about College Hockey.

I would bet that Mad Dog might give Yale a plug though since he lives in CT. Call his show on Sirius/XM

Red Cloud
03-21-2011, 10:54 PM
I'm sorry, I'm too busy laughing at all the "ANEEEWHARE BUTT ALBANEEE!!!!1!" people from the last 4 or 5 years to be able to formulate a rational response to this question.

vicb
03-22-2011, 04:56 AM
I'm sorry, I'm too busy laughing at all the "ANEEEWHARE BUTT ALBANEEE!!!!1!" people from the last 4 or 5 years to be able to formulate a rational response to this question.

Give me an A, A, Give me an L, L, Give me a B, B, Give me another A, A, Give me an N, N, Give me a Y, Y, what do you got, the only place for the ECAC Championship. ;) .

TimU
03-22-2011, 07:32 AM
I never liked having the tournament in Albany, even though I don't have anything against the city and it's by far the most convenient for me in terms of travel. I loved Lake Placid, and I still want the tournament to go back there. It's my first choice and will likely always be my first choice. I'd have been willing to give some of the other suggested sites a try, but not Atlantic City.

Also, just because the league managed to pick one of the very few locations that appears to be clearly worse than Albany for the majority of fans - including me - doesn't affect my opinion that the move from Lake Placid to Albany was for the worse. If my only two choices are Atlantic City and Albany, I'll take Albany in a heartbeat. But I don't believe those are the only options. I loved going to the old Boston Garden, but if it can't be in Boston I still vote for LP first, and I'd be OK with trying someplace like Providence.

aweise
03-22-2011, 07:36 AM
I'm sorry, I'm too busy laughing at all the "ANEEEWHARE BUTT ALBANEEE!!!!1!" people from the last 4 or 5 years to be able to formulate a rational response to this question.
I'm still laughing, but I'll try to formulate something rational....

Yes, I can understand how Albany felt like a morgue when Princeton & Harvard played in the final (and other times), but that's not Albany's fault. That said, I never liked the attempts at promoting the tournament. The only time I saw any TV advertisements was during the broadcasts of Union or RPI games on TW-3 (not during any local newscasts or other local programming). There used to be a billboard ad on I-787, but that went away after a few years. It was as if they were content with whoever showed up.

Besides, as a fan, you're only there for less than 48 hours. You come to watch the hockey, right? The only downtime you'll really have is Saturday morning and early afternoon and there's enough stuff in the area to take in for that amount of time. There are plenty of establishments downtown if you want a beer and a bite afterward - or even if you want to take the family to a nice place. You may stay overnight on Saturday, but if you have far enough to drive, you're headed home as soon as you get up on Sunday morning.

Bottom line....it's the most logical place to have it, period. I consider the arguments for the other cities, but I keep coming back to how it's the most centrally-located and big enough location to hold the tournament. I loved going to Lake Placid, but the arena started to get too small - getting anything at the concessions required you to block the walkway and each of the three men's rooms had two urinals and a stall. Albany just needs to promote it better and they'll get the attendance up.

The ECAC will clearly not make everyone happy and I don't think there's going to be a long-term answer any time soon. But for now, they should use their common sense (whatever's left of it) and bring the tournament back to Albany.

FlagDUDE08
03-22-2011, 07:58 AM
RPI/Union barely brought 1000-1500 people and still the arena was 3/4 full to full for the event and the town was a buzz all day. When the tournament was there for almost 10 years attendence was never an issue and they had a few years where some of the teams with the worst followings made it. For example there was three years in a row (I do believe) where Princeton made it and Harvard and Brown as well. Attendence still was nearly full every game. The locals will show up no matter who is there which makes attendence never an issue here. Plus the arena only seats around 8000 or so, smaller than others but just big enough to accomodate. This tournament belongs somewhere where it is wanted and Lake Placid is the place.

I blame the RPI/Union football game scheduled at the same time. But you're right, there was a lot of energy at the location. If they had a way to adjust the boards in order to make it NHL sized (so people would stop complaining), it'd be cool to have it there again.

rvd5star69
03-22-2011, 09:13 AM
The ECAC tourney should be 1 of these 3 places in order. 1) LAKE PLACID- the best hockey town on earth. 2) I wouldnt mind seeing it in Syracuse. Its a good city, with lots to do, and not long drive for the big 6 slu, cornell, gate, slu, rpi, clarkson. 3) I would give Providence a try. Glenns Falls seems to small, Albany is too dull, AC is too far and pricey.

FlagDUDE08
03-22-2011, 09:20 AM
The ECAC tourney should be 1 of these 3 places in order. 1) LAKE PLACID- the best hockey town on earth. 2) I wouldnt mind seeing it in Syracuse. Its a good city, with lots to do, and not long drive for the big 6 slu, cornell, gate, slu, rpi, clarkson. 3) I would give Providence a try. Glenns Falls seems to small, Albany is too dull, AC is too far and pricey.

The War Memorial would be a cool place to hold the ECAC championships, and I'd love to go, but I don't think it would happen. Yes it's downtown in the city, and it's not as "college town" as Albany is, but it still is a college town. Also, remember that Syracuse has a basketball team that perenially makes the tournament, so since rounds 1 and 2 (well, now 2 and 3) take place during the same weekend, most of your drive-bys would be wanting to watch their basketball team rather than watching four ECAC hockey teams of which they probably don't have interest.

Lake Placid is perfect because not only is it decent location (at least for 4 of the teams), but you have that local support which is very important.

bothman
03-22-2011, 10:46 AM
Besides, as a fan, you're only there for less than 48 hours. You come to watch the hockey, right? The only downtime you'll really have is Saturday morning and early afternoon and there's enough stuff in the area to take in for that amount of time. There are plenty of establishments downtown if you want a beer and a bite afterward - or even if you want to take the family to a nice place. You may stay overnight on Saturday, but if you have far enough to drive, you're headed home as soon as you get up on Sunday morning.

Bottom line....it's the most logical place to have it, period. I consider the arguments for the other cities, but I keep coming back to how it's the most centrally-located and big enough location to hold the tournament. I loved going to Lake Placid, but the arena started to get too small - getting anything at the concessions required you to block the walkway and each of the three men's rooms had two urinals and a stall. Albany just needs to promote it better and they'll get the attendance up.

The ECAC will clearly not make everyone happy and I don't think there's going to be a long-term answer any time soon. But for now, they should use their common sense (whatever's left of it) and bring the tournament back to Albany.

If a central location is far and away the #1 attribute that will dictate attendance, then Albany is a logical choice.

Albany falls far short on many of the other attributes (ie, fan experience, attractiveness of city, level of promotion, etc).

Perhaps someone more creative and who has more time than me can come up with a grid, and rank each of the locations based upon a set of weighted criteria, and see which location comes out on top.

chickod
03-22-2011, 11:11 AM
This arrangement, however, also creates a significant advantage over newer arenas in that seats have a <b>significantly lower vertical distance from the arena floor</b>.

And this is good why??? Two of the best places I have ever watched a game was from the first balcony at the old Boston Garden and the balcony at Matthews Arena (Northeastern). About the WORST place to watch a hockey game is an arena with a "gradual" vertical rise - too many seats below the top of the glass level and too far from the ice.

MarkEagleUSA
03-22-2011, 11:14 AM
If they had a way to adjust the boards in order to make it NHL sized (so people would stop complaining), it'd be cool to have it there again.The ECAC should call NASCAR and borrow some of their Safer Barriers! :D


Albany falls far short on many of the other attributes (ie, fan experience, attractiveness of city, level of promotion, etc).I think Atlantic City fell even further on those attributes. At a minimum it was no better than Albany.