Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

    As long as we're stuck in AC for at least 2 more years, I have two suggestions for the powers that be. My biggest complaint with this weekend was the general arena experience. It just didn't feel like hockey to me, probably because of that gaudy wall behind the stage at the far end of the rink. Cover the **** thing with a black curtain! Next up: concessions. I understand needing to keep us penned up inside and not allowing outside food or drink in but lets be realistic here. The concessions stunk and were (surprise) overpriced. With that huge stage in the building, why not off an all-event buffet style food service for an additional fee? At QU they have the Bobcat Club where people can go between periods and grad a beverage and something to eat. Best of all, it would allow fans to mingle and socialize. We were stuck in the building for close to 7 hours each day and our only options were overpriced hot dogs and pretzels!
    Quinnipiac Bobcats
    2023 National Champions
    ECAC Regular Season Champions: 2012-13, 2014-15, 2015-16, 2018-19, 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23, 2023-24
    ECAC Tournament Champions: 2016
    East Regional: 2013 (Champions), 2014, 2016 (Champions), 2023 (Champions)
    Northeast Regional:

    West Regional: 2015, 2021
    Midwest Regional: 2019, 2022
    Frozen Four: 2013, 2016, 2023 (Champions)

    Pass complete. Lipkin has a man in front! Shot... SCORE!!!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

      What was the attendanc in AC ?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by blueshirts View Post
        What was the attendanc in AC ?
        How about Anchorage Alaska say 10,000 miles, makes for decent frequent flyer miles. WOULD SETTLE FOR PROV.RI

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

          Originally posted by MarkEagleUSA View Post
          As long as we're stuck in AC for at least 2 more years...
          Here, for the record, are links to three articles written at the time the move to AC was announced:

          http://www.collegehockeynews.com/new...ecacmoving.php
          http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/...ys-big-gamble/
          http://www.uscho.com/2009/09/29/ecac...-city-in-2011/

          In hindsight, the AC decision was at best a triumph of wishful thinking. At worst, it was a money deal that benefited the ECACH in some financial way, but has absolutely no benefit for the fans who support the their teams and the league during the season, some of whom would be interested in travelling to a hospitable, convenient and affordable place to watch our end of season tournament.

          I know that Albany was not successful in terms of attendance, and the declines over the years certainly were a cause for concern. But how could the ECAC have believed that if fans would not travel in numbers to Albany, they would travel over twice as far to a place near no team, with no hockey tradition, in the middle of an urban disaster zone.

          If you google "Atlantic City" it quickly becomes apparent that the place is a terrible place and no place that the ECAC Hockey League should want to have identified with its teams, its sport, its league or its schools.

          Here are some excerpts from an admittedly somewhat sensationalistic article in a UK newspaper about Atlantic City, written to warn the English city of Manchester about the dangers of relying on casino development for urban renewal:


          ATLANTIC CITY boasts 12 super-casinos which rake in nearly £3billion a year. But beyond the glitzy boardwalk the US gambling mecca is battling an epidemic of crime, prostitution and social problems.

          ...[T]he town still grapples with blocks of dilapidated buildings and seamy motels that draw drug dealers and prostitutes within the shadows of towering, brightly lit casinos.

          ...Figures show that homelessness, unemployment and crime have all risen in Atlantic City.

          Crime in the city is about three times the US average, and the murder rate is twice the national average, according to FBI data.

          Property prices have boomed, forcing many of the town’s poorer residents into trailer parks, while recent census figures show that nearly 24 per cent of the city’s population lives under the poverty line.

          US gambling addiction groups say the casinos lead to significant debt, family disruption, job losses, criminal activity and even suicide.

          Chris Armentano, from the Institute of Problem Gambling in nearby Connecticut, said: “The casinos try to lure people who have less hope into believing that something could happen to change your life.

          “The problem is that the change is usually for the worse.

          “They attract poorer people chasing a dream that the big win will solve all their problems. Gambling is about escapism.

          “People can sit on the slot machines all night until the money runs out. It’s a mindless activity but gets people hooked.

          “You see many more working-class people getting into problems with gambling.

          “With casinos open 24 hours a day, we are seeing more people getting into trouble. They will keep gambling until they run out of money. And that leads to depression, debt, family problems and often crime as they try to cover up their losses.

          “Each casino brings with it an explosion of gambling-related crime. ...”

          ...[A]lthough thousands of jobs were created, many argue that the glitzy additions did little to stop the surrounding poverty and urban blight. Drug dealers and prostitutes flock to the area.

          And pawn shops, where compulsive gamblers desperately swap their worldly goods for cash, are a common sight on the back streets.

          While profits pour into the casinos, restaurants and bars struggle to compete with the cut-price hotel rooms, free drinks and food used to lure in punters.

          Casinos are built without windows and have no clocks on the wall, so gamblers lose their sense of what time it is in the outside world. Fresh oxygen is pumped in to keep them awake and spending money.

          Professor Bill Thompson, of the University of Nevada in Las Vegas, said: “The only reason people go to Atlantic City is to gamble. They do not go to lie in the sun, go to shows or eat in restaurants.

          “The city is still not a desirable place to live. It’s still a dump.”

          Most of those employed in the casinos live ten or 15 miles outside the city.

          In the late Nineties an official report by the National Gambling Impact Study Commission found that when casino gambling is introduced into a community, the compulsive gambling rate doubles. It also concluded that 60 per cent of casino communities saw an increase in child neglect because parents were more focused on gambling.

          Violent crime is nearly four times the national average in Atlantic City.

          Police are still investigating the ritualistic murders of four prostitutes late last year. Their bodies were found in a ditch behind a seedy motel outside Atlantic City. At least one died of strangulation. Another, officials said, died of asphyxia “by unspecified means”. The killer has not yet been found. The murders led to some locals claiming that the police department discourages arrests for prostitution. On the streets outside the casinos dozens of prostitutes lurk, offering services for as little as $5 to feed their drug habit.

          But, despite the killings, officials say they don’t expect any decrease in the number of people drawn to the excitement of Atlantic City. William Southrey, president of the Atlantic City Rescue Mission, said: “There are 35 million people a year who pass through this little town. “So if someone is looking for action, there are things going on all the time, legal opportunities and perverse ones.”

          His colleague Fred Soper added that every time a new casino opened in Atlantic City, the town saw a 20 per cent increase in homeless people. He said: “People come looking for work but they don’t realise they will be drug tested and their background checked. “If they don’t get work, they simply end up on the streets. When the first casinos opened we’d have 50 people every night sleeping at the mission. Now we have 350. “We’re at max now. We can’t handle it any more.”

          But residents say the sad truth is that Atlantic City is now dangerously dependent on casinos. William McDevitt, a retired shipbuilder, admitted: “Without casinos, this place would fall into the ocean.”

          The whole article can be found at: http://www.pactoregon.org/news-070201-AtlanticCity.html

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

            Originally posted by blueshirts View Post
            What was the attendance in AC ?
            According to the Albany Times Union the “announced” attendance for 10,300-seat Boardwalk Hall on Friday for the semis was 3,357.

            According to the Boston Globe, "Attendance, which was light for all four games in Atlantic City, was not published or announced on either day".

            It is pretty likely that some fans went home after Friday, making Saturday attendance probably lower than Friday. I'll guess they were very lucky if they got 6,000 total.

            A check of boxscores at USCHO and CHN, as well as the Yale website, indicates the reported attendance was 0. Which is probably also pretty close to accurate.

            According to the Schnectady Daily Gazette, the tournament averaged 10,185 (total for two days) in the seven years it was in Albany. In 2005, it drew a peak of 16,217, falling to 13,348 in 2006, 10,049 in 2007, 9,925 in 2008 and 8,104 in 2009.

            Based on the Albany numbers, shouldn't the tournament end up in a 6-8000 seat building which is less than a 200 mile/three hour drive from a majority of the schools and is located in a place where both local fans and travelling fans will attend? There are plenty of choices.
            Last edited by Eph72; 03-20-2011, 03:21 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

              The tournament should hold games in the rinks of the higher seeds and the championship should be played at the home rink of the highest seed. When I watch how the smaller conferences do it for NCAA hoops it seemed to me like 100% of the conference tourney final games were in a home gym for one of the two teams. I cant imagine this was a coincidence 100% of the time.

              I DVR'd the games on TV and seeing them being played in what looked like a 90% empty arena was terrible - there was no mojo or special feel at all. It looked 100% terrible. Unfortunately, the Northeast is littered with mid-sized cities that peaked 70 years ago and are mostly crap - especially from a tourist standpoint. Other than Lake Placid, which might be charming or offer something unique (I have never been) who wants to spend any time in any of the other cities listed?

              Keep the games on campus - its the best choice for all involved....
              Let's go U!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

                Originally posted by critsports View Post
                Agree with you on the "Student Prince" however of all the cities listed in the analysis, Springfield probably has the diciest downtown area in terms of crime, bad area's, etc. Springfield does have great access though for driving being at the juncture of the Mass Pike (Rt. 90) and Rt. 91.



                Thanks for all your hard work.
                The advantage of Atlantic City???? Can you say "arena for free"!!!!! My guess is if that is true (as we have heard from multiple sources) then that is most likely why we are there.
                Glens Falls is interesting in that the downtown is right there and small enough where the ECAC crowd wouldn't get lost, however the capacity of the arena (being optimistic) is on the small side listed at only 4,807. Considering our attendance figures in most years that would be just about enough but in good years it realistically would likely be too small. Having said that....there's a lot to be said for a "full" arena and Glens Falls would likely fill up. As far away as Binghamton is from where I am the size of the city and arena are about the right fit. I think these second tier sized cities and arena's are the best options to look at for us. Let's face it....we are a smaller fish and I think if we stay in a smaller pond it's a better fit all around for us.
                I'd make the argument that going to a 5,000 seat arena would help create interest -- less supply means fans will want to make sure they've got their tickets for fear the event will sell out.

                Of course, the league will never do it, because they're putting a cap on profits that way. Be in a 10,000 seat arena, you're guaranteeing that everyone who wants to get in will get in.

                But you're also guaranteeing that most people will wait until right before the tourney to buy their tickets, since there's no risk of selling out.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

                  Originally posted by bothman View Post
                  Someplace that rewards the teams and fans for making it there.

                  That would eliminate Albany, Bridgeport, and Springfield
                  Bothman: Albany, Bridgeport and Springfield have certain advantages. They have good hockey buildings, they are centrally located, and there are some local hockey fans in all three places who, if marketed intelligently, could be attracted to the tournament. Nobody, however, would call any of them a "tourist destination". Nevertheless, each has some local attractions, including Springfield's Basketball HOF, the restaurants and museums in New Haven (20 miles from Bridgeport), and Albany has...well, last call in Albany is at 4:00 am!

                  Seriously, what kind of outside the rink features and amenities would help induce you to attend the tournament, especially if your team isn't playing? Highly-rated restaurants? Galleries? Museums? Shopping? Historic sites? You're a college hockey fan, right?

                  Frankly, from my perspective, if I watch two games in a single day over 7+ hours, I'm not likely to want to go spend a lot of time in a casino, or a museum. I probably would want to walk or take a short drive to a resturant or bar where I might find other attendees for a little pre- or post-game conviviality. If the tournament were held in Boston or New York I might plan to spend a day or two there before or after the tournament to see friends or do some big city things. This would not be so likely in the mid and small-sized cities that are otherwise possibilities.

                  But --for me -- I wouldn't rule out Bridgeport or Springfield or Albany if the building were filled, there were plenty of students present, the bands were loud, and the hockey was as good as it has been this year.
                  Last edited by Eph72; 03-20-2011, 03:52 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

                    Here is an article from the local Atlantic City newspaper trying to put a positive spin on things, including a nice little dis on Albany:

                    http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/s...8a1f7bb41.html

                    Allain tries to spin it, too, saying: "It's such an interesting, historical building. It's neat for our guys to play in this environment. Even though the building wasn't full - it wasn't a championship atmosphere with the crowd - it was an exciting atmosphere. Our kids enjoyed playing in it."

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

                      Originally posted by critsports View Post
                      ...of all the cities listed in the analysis, Springfield probably has the diciest downtown area in terms of crime, bad area's, etc.
                      Not dicier than Atlantic City.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

                        It has been suggested that I add Utica to the mix. I have also added the hockey seating capacity of the principal arena in the city to the right of the metro area population:

                        Albany 1614/12=134.5 (12) 825,000 15,500
                        Springfield 1810/12=150.8 (9) 680,000 7,276
                        Glens Falls 1882/12=156.83 (9) 124,000 4,806
                        Hartford 1893/12=157.75 (8) 1,148,000 15,635
                        Utica 1989/12=165.75 (6) 300,000 4,000
                        Bridgeport 2081/12=173.4 (7) 882,000 9,000
                        Worcester 2094/12=174.5 (7) 750,000 14,800
                        Mohegan Sun 2241/12=186.75 (8) 18,546 n/a
                        Binghamton 2289/12=190.75 (5) 252,320 4,710
                        Syracuse 2315/12=192.9 (6) 650,154 6,230
                        Providence 2322/12=193.5 (7) 621,000 11,940
                        New York City 2341/12=195 (6) 18,000,000 n/a
                        Boston 2393/12=199.4 (7) 4,391,000 17,565
                        Lake Placid 2416/12=201.3 (6) 2,638 7,700
                        Atlantic City 3591/12=299.25 (1) 252,552 10,500

                        Utica is the home of the Memorial Auditorium, a 4,000-seat multi-purpose arena built in 1959. The Aud hosted the 1962 NCAA Frozen Four. Scenes from the 1977 movie "Slap Shot" were filmed there. It is home to the Utica College Pioneers, Mohawk Valley Community College Hawks, The Skating Club of Utica and several high school varsity ice hockey teams. It has been the home of the Utica Devils of the American Hockey League, the Utica Bulldogs, Utica Blizzard, and Mohawk Valley Prowlers of the United Hockey League, and the Mohawk Valley IceCats of the North Eastern Hockey League. It is the home of Utica College, which has the highest average attendance in Division III of United States college hockey.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

                          I've seen and heard Providence thrown around a lot more this year than in years past, so since I live approximately 10 miles to the south of the Dunk, I thought I'd add my two cents.

                          Providence is a wonderful little city that has been completely revitalized, starting in the early 90's and continuing even today. There's a great art and music scene, and there's plenty to do for fans including great restaurants and the Providence Place Mall within walking distance of the Dunkin' Donuts Center. Boston is always an option for entertainment, as it's just an hour away and the MBTA commuter rail takes you to South Station for about $8.

                          The Dunk itself has been revitalized in a similarly fantastic fashion, and, though I've only been for high school hockey and PC basketball gams since the renovations, I think it's a great place to catch a game these days. Providence is also fairly close to every school, and most of Brown's opponents bring pretty good contingents for regular season games - every New York team travels very well, and all the other schools are from New England with the exception of Princeton, which doesn't travel well no matter where they're playing - so I imagine the turnouts for postseason games would be good in Providence as well.

                          There is a foreseeable problem in that Rhode Island isn't much of a hockey state these day. Basketball and baseball are perpetually in the foreground of everyone's minds, while hockey and even football take somewhat of a backseat. The local casual sports fan probably would not go out to an ECAC tournament final unless big names like Cornell and Harvard are involved (and even then, perhaps not). By the time the ECACs roll around, people are much more concerned with basketball and spring training, so there is a much smaller chance that Rhode Islanders would be willing to attend these games, even if Brown were involved (they don't come to regular season games, so why would they bother to show up for this?).

                          Despite the lack of local interest in hockey, I think Providence would still put on a good weekend for ECAC fans. The proximity to most schools and the abundance of activities in the surrounding areas are qualities unmatched by almost any other candidate, and the arena itself has been transformed from a generic piece of crap from the era of industrious, and not glamorous, sports venues, into an absolute gem of a place to catch a game. Obviously this conversation won't matter again for another two years, but hopefully the ECAC committee will take these factors into account when it makes its next selection- and NOT just money.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

                            Originally posted by DutchFace View Post
                            The tournament should hold games in the rinks of the higher seeds and the championship should be played at the home rink of the highest seed... Other than Lake Placid, which might be charming or offer something unique (I have never been) who wants to spend any time in any of the other cities listed? Keep the games on campus - its the best choice for all involved....
                            I agree that this could be the solution to empty buildings, but it does present a number of consequential issues. For example, if Cornell is the number 1 seed, and it regularly sells out Lynah to its own fans, how will fans of the other three teams get tickets? It seems to be customary to sell "day passes", which are tickets good for both games. Who will go to the non-Cornell game? If tickets are divvied up among all four schools, how does Cornell allot its 1/4 share among its 4,000 season ticket holders? What happens if Cornell loses the semi? How do fans of the two finalists get tickets to the finals? Maybe the time has come for some sophisticated software applications! And what if Union, Princeton, or Harvard is the #1 seed and their building barely seats 2,000? None of these "problems" should prevent further inquiry, but they are problems which would have to be solved.

                            As to who wants to spend time in the other cities listed, well, that is the 64 dollar question. Apparently virtually nobody wants to spend time in Atlantic City!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

                              Glens Falls would be interesting, maybe a little small but Wikipedia says the Civic Center can seat an additional 2000 people standing room only, making a total of around 6800. The DCU Center in Worcester could be interesting too since they are renovating it.

                              Let me throw the Prudential Center in Newark and Manchester NH on the list. While neither is a great fit, I think they would both draw more fans than Atlantic City. It would be a huge gamble to play in a NHL arena in Newark, but since its close enough to New York and closer to schools I imagine more people would go than went to Atlantic City. It also would be nice to put the league on equal footing to the WCHA, CCHA and Hockey East, who all play in NHL arenas.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: For ECAC Fans: Where Should Our Tournament Be Held?

                                Originally posted by Eph72 View Post
                                Bothman: Albany, Bridgeport and Springfield have certain advantages. They have good hockey buildings, they are centrally located, and there are some local hockey fans in all three places who, if marketed intelligently, could be attracted to the tournament. Nobody, however, would call any of them a "tourist destination". Nevertheless, each has some local attractions, including Springfield's Basketball HOF, the restaurants and museums in New Haven (20 miles from Bridgeport), and Albany has...well, last call in Albany is at 4:00 am!

                                Seriously, what kind of outside the rink features and amenities would help induce you to attend the tournament, especially if your team isn't playing? Highly-rated restaurants? Galleries? Museums? Shopping? Historic sites? You're a college hockey fan, right?
                                Some of us have a wife and kid(s). Tough selling Bridgeport, Albany, Utica, or Springfield for the weekend....Hey honey, let's spend the weekend in Bridgeport???

                                I have long argued for Boston (relaizing that the Hockey East Final is there) or even NYC. We could have it at Agannis which is a good size for the crowd we would bring (the Fleet Center would seem empty if we ever had it there - Let Hockey Least take the bigger stage). Strong alumni communities across all schools since Boston & NYC are the biggest job markets in the Northeast.

                                If not Boston or NYC, then Providence or Worcester (if the New Haven Colliseum were still around, New Haven would work as well).

                                My 2 cents...

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X