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kdiff77
04-19-2012, 06:03 PM
We can sell out HFH. Usually just Freakout, though we've had a few others sell out.

Gotcha. Though if RPI wasn't playing in a final four setting, the games between neutral teams probably wouldn't sell out purely from RPI fans, which was what my main point was. It certainly wasn't an indictment of the RPI faithful!

Wholin1
04-19-2012, 07:39 PM
I think but am only guessing that Albany has the inside track. Maybe they finally appreciate what they had...and lost. Also they have a major corporate sponsor lined up in CDPHP, the local HMO behemoth. Having been to the FF in Tampa, I got a real taste of how a community can embrace an event. A similar effort in Albany or wherever it is being held, is a must.

TimU
04-19-2012, 08:55 PM
Tim-In the 27 years we have owned a home on the lake in the Adirondacks we have seen the iceout occur anywhere from March 30 as the earliest and May 9 as the latest. i would not trust the ice for at least the 2 week period before those dates. Of course i was semi joking about holding the tournament outdoors as i am sure doing so would present a myriad of problems. But it sure would be fun and very convenient for us.:)

Yeah, it would be cool!

For as weird and awful a winter as it was, the skating was excellent. It never snowed on the ice!

critsports
04-21-2012, 11:46 AM
A problem I could see, however, would be finding a way to ensure that the seats are sold to fans of the teams who are actually involved. I'm sure at Lynah or Ingalls, the tickets would be gobbled up by Cornell and Yale season ticket-holders immediately.

The terms ECAC PLayoff tickets and the words "would be gobbled up" do not belong in the same sentence and that is one of the root causes of the issue.
I have thought and thought about the best solution for our tournament and as much as we all love our ECAC hockey, I think you have to go into the planning for this thing with some foregone conclusions in place.


-The tournament is really only ever going to be a draw for the league fans (not huge) and the schools involved.
-Unless a promoting genius (or someone with deep pockets) gets involved....there will only ever be MINIMAL ticket sales to any fan base not included in the first point.
-Having said that, we have all agreed it is better to dimension it to an arena that is not so huge that we feel like we are playing in an empty mausoleum. As attendance will always range from the highs and lows mentioned in Ken Schotts article further down this thread.
-The league geography is diverse. The centrist posters correctly point out Albany as the most convenient location. (Doesn't mean we should go back there.)
-I think once you "concede" or "accept" the above criteria the choices on where to hold it become easier and clearer.


So........do we just go with geography for the convenience??? Or.....with Atlantic City being the ultimate ridiculous choice in the extreme and seeing some die hard fans still do go........I propose another sub set of criteria to consider.


Do you want to be a small fish in a big city?
Or, a big fish in a small city?

They both have their points to consider. When you choose a bigger city you do have more choice, hotels, places to go, things to do, other alternatives. However on the negative once our crowd (using Albany as the example) disburses out to stay.......we all disappear into the larger landscape. That will happen in any mid to large city we go to. On the other hand one cannot deny the ambiance, camaraderie and team spirit that was always present when our small horde descended onto the streets of Lake Placid. Far away as it was we did own the venue and the city and that made it special for some of us.

I'd like to throw in at this point some credentials and experience. I have worked on and off my entire business career in sales and marketing. I have held marketing positions for companies heavily involved in sports sponsorships. There is no draw in our league for any kind of "national" interest for sponsorship. Even this new fat calf Albany is rolling out to "double their bid" will be just that. They will be dumb and happy for a bit but they are CDPHP.....a local Capital District company looking for exposure locally not where Harvard or Quinnipiac or Princeton fans play or reside. Their interest is only local. Our tournament does not fit their mission and all this suit Belber is doing is mis-using their (CDPHP) money to bolster his bid and get an event back to his venue (To make himself look good. I am being harsh on him but on the other hand it is his job to bring events in and maximize usage/profit of his venue.)

This past year my company just came off being one of the major (financial) sponsors of a D 1 NCAA event. I know how much we paid, I saw the proposals, attendance projections...I know the arena, city.......I saw the post event metrics, I attended. I saw first hand what transpired. I saw an arena do way more than the ECAC or Times Union Center did to promote the event including inclusions of promotion/giveways/events at multiple levels all around the city.....and guess what??? No one came. Parents of players, fans of the schools, some perhaps marginal local interest in spite of giving tickets away and doing the fan fest things Albany and other venues will do. After the event....I visited blogs and school sites and guess what?? Substitute our event for theirs and they all complained about the same things we have been complaining about for years.

In summary this event is for us, our league, our schools. We need to be selfish and dimension it to what it is and what we want it to be to make it as enjoyable for our schools and fan base and that's it. Anything else the ECAC can get out of it is going to be gravy. There will always be "suckers" like AC who will come along and pay us to go there and perhaps our league will continue to sell itself off to the highest bidder (and whose to say that don't have to, to stay viable.)

So....after this diatribe......where do we go? What would I recommend? I offer the below only as my choices, not yours.
As central as Albany is the arena is a tad too big....we've been there done it and I don't think the experience was all that enjoyable. Below is Belber's quote:

We were honored to be host of the tournament for many years," Belber said. "And with it not being here for the last couple of years, we have missed it and, frankly, so have the business establishments downtown, and even in the Capital Region in the way of hotels and restaurants."
Is he talking about the downtown establishments that within walking distance of the event weren't even open? To me Albany is a non choice as the downtown area immediately around the arena is marginal, limited hotel choice, restaurants are dreadful. Go back there only if you want the geographic choice or the deal is so good and the league needs the money. Other than that I'll repeat the dreadful word.

Although not central geographically I say give Providence a shot. The Dunk is within easy walking distance of WAY MORE of everything than Albany. The downtown underwent a masterful renewal. There are tons of hotels, restaurants, bars. The downtown is vibrant compared to Bridgeport or Albany. Of all the city choices (who are supposedly going to bid) I think Providence is head and shoulders above them all. You get in downtown what you have to go all the way out to Wolf Rd for in Albany. The arena is still a bit large for us (11,900 vs. 15,500 in Albany) but there are no perfect solutions.

My other choice is the sentimental one. Go back to Placid. Let us own the city. Let's be the big fish in the little pond. Yeah its a hell of a long way away. But it's beautiful. Yeah the weather can be a *****....but hey whether your 60 or 16 we all still need adventures to get someplace.

Those would be my two choices. (Not suggesting they should be yours.)

kdiff77
04-21-2012, 02:04 PM
Although not central geographically I say give Providence a shot. The Dunk is within easy walking distance of WAY MORE of everything than Albany. The downtown underwent a masterful renewal. There are tons of hotels, restaurants, bars. The downtown is vibrant compared to Bridgeport or Albany. Of all the city choices (who are supposedly going to bid) I think Providence is head and shoulders above them all. You get in downtown what you have to go all the way out to Wolf Rd for in Albany. The arena is still a bit large for us (11,900 vs. 15,500 in Albany) but there are no perfect solutions.

My other choice is the sentimental one. Go back to Placid. Let us own the city. Let's be the big fish in the little pond. Yeah its a hell of a long way away. But it's beautiful. Yeah the weather can be a *****....but hey whether your 60 or 16 we all still need adventures to get someplace.

Those would be my two choices. (Not suggesting they should be yours.)

I agree. Those are my two favorite choices as well. I wouldn't mind Albany again purely because of geography (and let's face it, ANYTHING is better than AC), but it was always kind of a drab atmosphere for games given that 8,000+ seats would invariably be empty.

Providence seats around 11,000 for hockey, which is still pretty big, but having gone to plenty of P-Bruins and Friars basketball games there, I can attest that the atmosphere is terrific. When that place gets loud, it's very intimidating (I remember watching a Friars games on TV and hearing a commentator call it one of the best home-court advantages in the Big East). If there was a crowd of, say, 5-6,000 split up pretty evenly amongst the four teams competing, it would make for a great atmosphere.

Another positive of The Dunk is that there's no upper deck. There is upper-level seating of course, but it's not separated from the first tier, as in Albany. There's just a walkway separating the 100s and 200s, so the fans are all very close together.

I would like the ECAC to give Providence a shot. I can't promise the crowds would be amazing, given the distance the city is from Cornell, Colgate, SLU, Clarkson, RPI, Union, and Princeton and the fact that I don't foresee an overwhelming amount of local interest, but I think it would be an enjoyable weekend for fans. The arena has been recently renovated and is one of the better places to watch a hockey game in the Northeast, so everyone would leave happy. The only problem is attendance.

Jasma
04-23-2012, 09:05 AM
I agree. Those are my two favorite choices as well. I wouldn't mind Albany again purely because of geography (and let's face it, ANYTHING is better than AC), but it was always kind of a drab atmosphere for games given that 8,000+ seats would invariably be empty.

Providence seats around 11,000 for hockey, which is still pretty big, but having gone to plenty of P-Bruins and Friars basketball games there, I can attest that the atmosphere is terrific. When that place gets loud, it's very intimidating (I remember watching a Friars games on TV and hearing a commentator call it one of the best home-court advantages in the Big East). If there was a crowd of, say, 5-6,000 split up pretty evenly amongst the four teams competing, it would make for a great atmosphere.

Another positive of The Dunk is that there's no upper deck. There is upper-level seating of course, but it's not separated from the first tier, as in Albany. There's just a walkway separating the 100s and 200s, so the fans are all very close together.

I would like the ECAC to give Providence a shot. I can't promise the crowds would be amazing, given the distance the city is from Cornell, Colgate, SLU, Clarkson, RPI, Union, and Princeton and the fact that I don't foresee an overwhelming amount of local interest, but I think it would be an enjoyable weekend for fans. The arena has been recently renovated and is one of the better places to watch a hockey game in the Northeast, so everyone would leave happy. The only problem is attendance.

I agree that Providence could be good. The arena size and configuration is well suited for this tournament. The downtown area within walking distance of the arena has more suitable hotels and places to gather than Albany. If the city wants the event, it may be time to give them a shot.
I believe that any accessible city in the northeast corridor could draw crowds. Though a lot of students and season ticket holders do travel, much of the crowd still comes from alumni bases in places like Boston, Harford and New York, so where the city is matters less than how accessible it is.
I still think Albany gets a bad rap, but part of it is its fault because the arena, city and county did little to promote the event the last couple of years it was there. Though most of the hotels are a 15 minute shuttle or car ride, there are a lot of good places to gather just a ˝ mile up the hill from the arena in the Lark Street district. With the money infused into Albany’s bid by its title sponsor, if the ECAC allows them to attach the sponsor name to the event, would help make Albany a great place to hold the tournament.

drshoen
04-25-2012, 11:36 AM
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2012/04/24_ecac_should_return_to_lake.php

I, for one, agree with Adam for a change.

FlagDUDE08
04-25-2012, 11:38 AM
http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2012/04/24_ecac_should_return_to_lake.php

I, for one, agree with Adam for a change.

And where should they have the D-III championships? Is that contract up for renewal?

drshoen
04-25-2012, 11:52 AM
And where should they have the D-III championships? Is that contract up for renewal?

I'm not sure if their contract is up for renewal. I think Schott's original article said that LP was expected to bid; if that's true, I assume they've figured it out. I would also go back to Adam's main point; college hockey fans in the other leagues, except AHA, laugh at our tournament compared to theirs (no TV, almost no fans, etc.). The biggest thing that we could do to change that is to play in a place that is already known, and a town that (by itself) lends prestige to it.

burgie12
04-25-2012, 06:15 PM
And where should they have the D-III championships? Is that contract up for renewal?
The D-III championships have no set date or event site after the 2014 Frozen Four. Pairing up the D-III Frozen Four weekend with the D-I Frozen Four weekend is on the table as a possibility. I was led to believe that it will be included in the discussions for when the 2015-17 Frozen Four sites are released after the coaches' meetings in Florida.

So, there's one year where Lake Placid will be unavailable and the ECAC Tournament's contract with Atlantic City will be expired.

satyking
04-27-2012, 08:11 AM
Albany would be good if they black out the upper seating sections and force everyone to the lower level......this will make the site look full......Providence is the best spot except for the number of ECAC schools nearby

FlagDUDE08
04-27-2012, 08:28 AM
Albany would be good if they black out the upper seating sections and force everyone to the lower level......this will make the site look full......Providence is the best spot except for the number of ECAC schools nearby

They'll likely leave a couple of the upper sections open for the bands and maybe some press overflow. During the Governor's Cup they left one open for the RPI band.

sshablak
04-27-2012, 11:34 AM
Open your eyes...any venue is going to be a ride....who cares, it's expected ! If you don't like your team enough to drive 3-6 hours, don't go !!

Lake Placid is so historic, mountainous, quaint, and there are definitely enough hotels in the area. FFS, I've driven there four hours and my team wasn't even in the tourney.

The "whole town" is about ECAC hockey that weekend, fans from four schools roam the streets, It's as good as it gets !!!!!

FredDavenport
04-28-2012, 07:44 AM
This is a very good idea! Campus sites guarantee great crowds, great atmosphere, low expense (only one team travels).

Or a hybrid of both campus sites and neutral site

Week 1 - 8 Teams, Top four host (best of 3)
Week 2 - 4 Teams, Top two host (best of 3)
Week 3 - 2 Teams @ Neutral Arena (one game)
.........................Easy to get a date/time with one game
.........................Schedule the date/time for TV and fan friendly (children & families) times
.........................Half the expenses

Just a thought

LTsatch
08-11-2012, 07:44 AM
Courtesy of the SLU thread

Well guys, sounds like we got our wishes answered! ECAC is scheduled to make a "major announcement" Tuesday in Lake Placid, all signs pointing to the Championships being brought back to Herb Brooks Arena in 2014!!!


I for one like this even though it means some lengthy travel, not having been there since I was a kid, it will be a great destination weekend, and I always wanted to try a luge!

hockeyplayer1015
10-28-2012, 04:00 PM
Think we will be lucky enough for Sandy to blow Boardwalk Hall into the Atlantic and let us face off in March elsewhere?

In all seriousness, I hope all in the path escape as safely as possible.

joecct
10-30-2012, 02:54 PM
Think we will be lucky enough for Sandy to blow Boardwalk Hall into the Atlantic and let us face off in March elsewhere?

In all seriousness, I hope all in the path escape as safely as possible.New Jersey HS uses Boardwalk Hall for the state wrestling tournament, so keep it. But if the infrastructure is shot to poop, and the lockout is still going, Philadelphia or Newark may be open

FlagDUDE08
10-30-2012, 03:10 PM
One of the RPI posters in our thread said that the league is considering the TUC as a possibility. Take it for what it's worth, but he usually isn't wrong.

EDIT: Schott's take. http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/schott/2012/oct/29/hurricane-sandy-could-affect-marchs-ecac-hockey-ch/